Support and Tribunals section should move to Discord?

[admin]

We are considering moving the support section to discord as it is more immediate and faster. 
Tribunals should be in national clusters and managed by accepted and voted alliance leaders in the nation who will convey decisions to developers in special sections in discord.
Thoughts?

[You]

can you elaborate on this?

What do you mean by alliance leaders?

say we have this implemented, there are like 5 alliance leaders chosen, 1 year after and none of them play what would happen, how would the community reelect people and keep it from being biased at the same time?

[Henry Long Castle]

I think that he means that almost every nation has some clans "running it", so one of them ?

Could change every month with new vote, idk 

Edited August 29, 2020 by Henry Long Castle

[Frosty]

Not all leading clans/individuals in the different nations can be arsed to become tribunal moderators. Many people already put a lot of effort in-game diplomatically and 'politically'. That is my honest thought. But please, elaborate more! Alliance leaders? What is an alliance in the first place? 

But I like the idea of using discord, as it's more immediate! And you should also accept having a chat with the community some time in the 'unofficial' NA discord  

[Beeekonda]

46 minutes ago, admin said:

Tribunals should be in national clusters and managed by accepted and voted alliance leaders in the nation who will convey decisions to developers in special sections in discord.

1. Make rules

2. Write them down and post it somewhere where people can access it without need to google/forum/steam searching it. I cant recall if there is any written rules that can be found in-game. Update rules when necessary.

3. Enjoy your f11 reports

4. Have a place where someone can make a post like this (doesnt matter if forum/steam) and bring up a discussion about exploit. Anyone should have a voice, otherwise you might end up in a situation when your "Alliance Leaders" (whatever the f it means) will be the ones with power of voice, but would abuse exploits instead.

 

^ those 2 above are clearly YOUR fault and not players fault. Needs to be fixed/changed.

Why does Basic Cutter enters a PVP fight?

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by Beeekonda

[Liq]

moderators that are also playing the game will always be biased im some way, thus having an objective opinion is basically impossible

(which i think is also why we didnt have chat mods anymore)

[Christendom]

so essentially we're looking at community managers, which I think has been suggested here for years.  I'm not sure about moving over to discord, but having a group of mods vote on decisions would be a smart move.  You could even bring back global and have them monitor chats.  Maybe throw them a bone or 2 in the form of a fancy ship for their efforts.

Couple of suggestions - 

1 - active mods.  Our last mods were not.  
2 - multiples as biases will always be a thing
3 - mods vote on action taken and submit higher up if discipline beyondt their scope is needed
4 - we need a set of rules that is not subject to change or interpetation based upon feelings for the individuals.  

 

[Koltes]

9 hours ago, admin said:

We are considering moving the support section to discord as it is more immediate and faster. 
Tribunals should be in national clusters and managed by accepted and voted alliance leaders in the nation who will convey decisions to developers in special sections in discord.
Thoughts?

This will not work for a number of reason:
1. Alliance leaders are always going to be prejudged representatives trying to "protect" members of their alliance or clan;
2. Cases of unity in the nation is far and few between. You will simply give power to troll with immunity to members of larger groups that will lead to #1 point
3. Voting also will not work as largest groups of people/nation/clans will be able to "defend" their cases or attack with never ending tribunals those whos numbers are low. But that does not mean that the large group cant be wrong or prejuded

Unfortunately I dont have an answer as to how make it work for you in the current game state. The game that implies so many rules is doomed for players to exploit them with enthusiasm. The ONLY true way to reduce or eliminate tribunals and take that load off Developers hands is by changing the entire game mechanics responsible for how players interact in the game world.

For example... Green-on-Green exploit is not possible when all battles are Free-for-All and everyone is sailing under his own flag in the battle. Therefore FFA will eliminate GnG tribunals like a surgery. 
This is just an example. I have proposed for 1 week FFA attached to a special occasion. Maybe to celebrate your (admin) birthday
It can be just fun event with locked RVR for a week. See how it works for the OW which in fact could do with a bit of reviving right now. Just sayin 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Koltes

[Sir Texas Sir]

9 hours ago, Christendom said:

so essentially we're looking at community managers, which I think has been suggested here for years.  I'm not sure about moving over to discord, but having a group of mods vote on decisions would be a smart move.  You could even bring back global and have them monitor chats.  Maybe throw them a bone or 2 in the form of a fancy ship for their efforts.

Couple of suggestions - 

1 - active mods.  Our last mods were not.  
2 - multiples as biases will always be a thing
3 - mods vote on action taken and submit higher up if discipline beyondt their scope is needed
4 - we need a set of rules that is not subject to change or interpetation based upon feelings for the individuals.  

 

As much as me and @Christendom have butt heads over the years. I'm 100% behind this post right here.  I think we all have agree that this should of been done a long time ago and even still now should do like most other MMO games, there is not just one or two active Moderators, they have several of them.  I would also strongly add.  

IF YOUR A MODERATOR YOU SHOULD NOT MODERATE WITH THE CHAR YOU PLAY.   This can make it very bias when some folks are, "yah I'm RP right now" Actually had a pass mod say that on PvP2 when some violated a very big rule in global and was caught red handed abusing the rules.  Also if a moderator is caught doing something they shouldn't than the other mods should be there judge and jury and if they are found guilty removed from moderation status.  I also have logs of a moderator that is very much still active doing just this and never turned it in cause of the bias nature betoween devs and players and there best buddy moderators.

I also think that moderators should not play on the server they moderat, but that might be to hard to find enough PvE guys to Moderate on PvP or vise versus, but I know if I was a moderator I would stop playing on one or the other as to not be bias or have conflict of interest when things might deal with my own nation.....

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, Koltes said:

For example... Green-on-Green exploit is not possible when all battles are Free-for-All and everyone is sailing under his own flag in the battle. Therefore FFA will eliminate GnG tribunals like a surgery. 
This is just an example. I have proposed for 1 week FFA attached to a special occasion. Maybe to celebrate your (admin) birthday
It can be just fun event with locked RVR for a week. See how it works for the OW which in fact could do with a bit of reviving right now. Just sayin 

I said it before and think even suggested it once.  ALL BATTLES SHOULD BE FFA pretty much unless you are of the same nation.  Than that is the only time Green on Green counts.  You are a British guy and some US player join your fight on your side, they can fire upon you or the Spanish your fighting if they like.  This will solve 99% of the Green on Green cases.   Pirates of course don't count as every one hates them including other pirates.  All battles they are involved incuding other pirates should be FFA.  So that way it's more a clan thing than a nation thing with them.

[Macjimm]

Wow.  This is bazarre.  

I've never had to use discord for any game to receive support.

I don't know what a national cluster, or an alliance leader is.  I wouldn't know how to find out.  Will Game Labs provide a list of national clusters and alliance leaders so that players know how to obtain support, or are player's expected to guess?

Doesn't  much matter as I've always used the "Ignore" feature to adress offensive players.  But if GL wants players to report all incidents of toxic behavior, the process should be clear and easy to understand.  Perhaps it would be easier to elimate ALL in game communication and only allow a select few to post on the forums.  Let players use third party apps to insult each other, and GL wouldn't have to be involved at all.

Crazy times.

[Koltes]

48 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

Wow.  This is bazarre.  

I've never had to use discord for any game to receive support.

I don't know what a national cluster, or an alliance leader is.  I wouldn't know how to find out.  Will Game Labs provide a list of national clusters and alliance leaders so that players know how to obtain support, or are player's expected to guess?

Doesn't  much matter as I've always used the "Ignore" feature to adress offensive players.  But if GL wants players to report all incidents of toxic behavior, the process should be clear and easy to understand.  Perhaps it would be easier to elimate ALL in game communication and only allow a select few to post on the forums.  Let players use third party apps to insult each other, and GL wouldn't have to be involved at all.

Crazy times.

Well actually lots of newer game companies do have their own discord with support channel. But I havent heard of the large companies that do that

[Koltes]

12 hours ago, Christendom said:

so essentially we're looking at community managers, which I think has been suggested here for years.  I'm not sure about moving over to discord, but having a group of mods vote on decisions would be a smart move.  You could even bring back global and have them monitor chats.  Maybe throw them a bone or 2 in the form of a fancy ship for their efforts.

Couple of suggestions - 

1 - active mods.  Our last mods were not.  
2 - multiples as biases will always be a thing
3 - mods vote on action taken and submit higher up if discipline beyondt their scope is needed
4 - we need a set of rules that is not subject to change or interpetation based upon feelings for the individuals.  

 

I always said that each nation should have their own Mods to keep their own national chats at check. Then mods from RE for example  cant be blamed for silencing players from other nations by over using their power. With removal of global this is an automatic thing.
3 mods for each nation and its sorted, plus what you have said up there

[Sir Texas Sir]

14 hours ago, Koltes said:

I always said that each nation should have their own Mods to keep their own national chats at check. Then mods from RE for example  cant be blamed for silencing players from other nations by over using their power. With removal of global this is an automatic thing.
3 mods for each nation and its sorted, plus what you have said up there

Hell didn't PvP2 go like 9 months before we ever seen a mod show up?   Only reason they started showing up was talks of merging servers and such.   Though I agree for most things the moderators should prob deal with there own nation problems, unless it's a big time break in the rules.

[Archaos]

19 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I said it before and think even suggested it once.  ALL BATTLES SHOULD BE FFA pretty much unless you are of the same nation.  Than that is the only time Green on Green counts.  You are a British guy and some US player join your fight on your side, they can fire upon you or the Spanish your fighting if they like.  This will solve 99% of the Green on Green cases.   Pirates of course don't count as every one hates them including other pirates.  All battles they are involved incuding other pirates should be FFA.  So that way it's more a clan thing than a nation thing with them.

This sounds at first as though it solves the problem, but it creates another with people joining to fill up your BR so your friends cannot join on your side. In the example you give if you are GB and a US player joins on your side to fight a Spanish player then they might even up the BR and close the battle leaving you at a disadvantage if both go for you. I can imagine the complaints raised about this, there are already enough about alts doing this to block BR.