Destraex Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 As this game ramps up and more and more "noise" is added to the development stages and more and more diverse and conflicting ideas come to the fore. There is a good chance that the original game plan will change and turn from its original intent turning the original community against it. I have just been reading how this happened to POTBS.... a lot of the BETA and original crew thought they were getting one thing and as the wider community joined the game turned much more arcade like. I believe it is important to stay true to what the games original intent is and be very very careful about turning it away from it's original script. The temptation is that it will not be realised what harm some of these seemingly harmless ideas can do to a community. I point to nothing in particular but am seeing a rise in people asking for a game more on the side of a disney adventure than a game with real mechanics and an open world. This game should be like no other. Achieve what no other has and stay true to it's historical base. * I don't want a stats based MMO. I don't want to careen my vessel and have it give +10% speed. I want to be able to careen and try it out after to see how much faster it makes me. I basically do not want the starcraft boys making excel spreadsheets to work out the best builds. Leave things human and the stats hidden. * I don't want to win battles single handedly with my sword when boarding * I don't want to see ridiculous colour schemes * I don't want to see fantasy and magic * I don't want to see pirates in first rates * I do not want to see cartoon like avatars * I do not want to see +1 and +2 floating up from my ship while the crew aim the guns for me * I do not feel the need to walk into town and tell stories about gold and how tough I am * * I do want it to be fun * I do want to see the thousands of possible historical ships * I do want to see realistic customisation and options * I do want to see organised navies * I do want as many sailing mechanics as possible * I do want to see diverse maps that include storms, rocks, tides, depth soundings and varied bottom depths * I do want to see varied wind maps, gusts, speed increases and decreases etc * I can handle a little compromise WHERE NECESSARY for current technology and the base level of player skill but expect the most basic things to be kept in game. I would hate it for instance if being taken aback was taken out because of players not understanding it. It is encumbant on the player to understand things that make sailing, well, sailing. Players must be willing to do more than expect to drive a car in the sea as in black flag. Otherwise the core player base will most likely move away because the game becomes just another "theme" based game like world of tanks with no base in reality and thus no point playing. May as well play something else that is not just skinned with a theme but plays like any other experience and could have a space ship skin just as easily. * I would like to see lookouts and crew repeat orders back so you know they are understood. * I want to be able to have my crew managed and become more experienced. * I want to be able to choose how many of each type of crew is in my ship - gunners, topmen, waisters etc and what proportion I have stationed where in the ship. * I want to be able to include marines in the crew and have them fire muskets There are basically two schools of thought here on the forums. The earlier more technical schools of though focussed on sailing mechanics and battle realism and the later population that has more of a proportion or role players and more character focussed play who like to dress things and run off on their own. I like a game with a feeling that you and your crew are human but personally do not feel the need to be portrayed as the centre of attention - i.e. a hero. Don't get me wrong. I like a human element. But I personally at least do not want the game to get out of control in that direction and leave the main part of the game, sailing, to rot. Just some random thoughts as I see the population now creating a lot of noise in a lot of directions with a lot of different expectations. It is easy to lose your way in this sea of noise and end up with an arcade game as I am told POTBS was - even though it seems like it was the only game in town forcing many to play it. What do we want to bring away from the game. What will we say when we finish putting hours of game time in? I learnt something, that was different, that was fun or just another MMO like all the others. Level ups and upgrades grinding with a fun party theme? 37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharden Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I agree with you on almost every point. The only thing I dont agree is about the pirates in First Rates. If a pirate is somehow able to board and take over a first rate (or any other ship for that matter), he should be able captain it just as anybody else. They shouldnt be able to just build one though, that wouldnt really be a piratey thing at all! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest raat Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I think the problem comes in for a game like this when people start crying about "BALANCE". The big, scary endless debate that is BALANCE. If you try to make everyone happy by making the game "balanced" by artificially assigning values without science, but based on player usage/skill/stats etc., then you won't make anyone happy. The reason? Because everyone has their own opinion of balance of course, even if that means imbalance to make it suit their player agenda. However, if you go the 'Historical/Realism' route, then at least you have science/history/data/etc. on your side. Not everyone will be happy, but some will. Namely this type of games' most loyal player base. But it also means the game will likely be less mass appeal. So really it's a question to the integrity (imho) of the developers. Do they want to make a quick buck and opt for mass market appeal? Or do they want a quality product that will have a smaller player base, but last years? 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Agree with pretty much everything here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destraex Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 I agree with you on almost every point. The only thing I dont agree is about the pirates in First Rates. If a pirate is somehow able to board and take over a first rate (or any other ship for that matter), he should be able captain it just as anybody else. They shouldnt be able to just build one though, that wouldnt really be a piratey thing at all! To crew and maintain a first rate would require 900 or so pirates.... and the maintenance costs would be insane for the purpose of taking merchants. It would be like Fastway Couriers using an abrams tank to do deliveries. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SYN_Bloody-Bandy Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Naval Action was not/currently is not being portrayed or marketed as an arcade game. If the developers decide to take it in that direction and pander to the lowest denominator, I will be really, REALLY pissed off and embarrassed because I convinced many of my squad mates to 'buy-in' as a worthy game-in-development to support. My squad knows flight sims, we privately run some of the most popular public servers for serious combat flight simulators. People are bringing up the War Thunder model but leaving out discussion of better flight sims. Sure, those are niche markets because you really need a joystick (and perhaps rudder pedals, Track IR) to succeed in them, so there is a hardware limitation to the casual player unlike mouse controlled War Thunder (makes me cringe). Naval Action has no hardware/game controller limitation for casual/hardcore players, but as seen by Admin posts, devs seem to be struggling with where to draw the line. In my opinion, that line needs to be in firm sight right from the beginning with only moderate concessions to fidelity for in-game play reasons. If ships are captured or sunk they should be gone from the player. Insurance replacement cost (depending on the ship type) is a bad idea if it means the player just buys the same ship (even with upgrades missing). As in historic reality, insurance should be limited to lowly ships and cargo (then why even bother, right?), certainly not for war ships. What company in their right mind would insure a rated ship, even a 6th rate or even corvette, or cutter??? They are meant to attack/be attacked, so at huge risk. Any insurance company would quickly go bankrupt. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceMaker Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 yep i agree with all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileus Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I get your points, but didn't you jest went out and made some more noise? It really just seems like you call anyone disagreeing with you "nise generating arcade guy" who's opinion needs to "be ignored for MY own agenda". Sorry, but this is what I took from it. As in historic reality ... you should be life banned from playing after dying in the game. Because historical reality is always the only thing you need to consider >.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharden Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 To crew and maintain a first rate would require 900 or so pirates.... and the maintenance costs would be insane for the purpose of taking merchants. It would be like Fastway Couriers using an abrams tank to do deliveries. So they would be, I'm with you on that. I just dont think that pirates should be completely restricted from using them. If they can somehow manage to crew and maintain it, they should be free to sail it. For example, if someone from a navy who got commisioned a first rate turns, with his crew, pirate, he should be able to use the ship. How long he can maintain it, thats a completely different question (and I know that its very unlikely that anyone who is even remotely considered able to go pirate would be commissioned a first rate).. So in short, im just saying that pirates shouldnt be blocked off first rates just because they are pirates. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SYN_Bloody-Bandy Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 IS THIS AN ARCADE GAME OR NOT? It certainly is not currently being portryed as one on the devs website. If it turns that way, the product has been misrepresented, I have been duped and want a refund. Period. And yes, if the player went down with his ship the character certainly could be dead. Why not? Have his son inherit his savings and any ships he may have in his dock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileus Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Next to "hysterical realitiez" is obviously the next crowd favorite, the "Do it my way or I want a refund!" argument. Sigh. Guys, are we mature enough to have a discussion maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SYN_Bloody-Bandy Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 You seem to be deliberately game-playing my coments in a most hypocritical fashion. From your lowest denominator standpoint you seem to be the one who can't see the other side Again, is this game going arcade or not? War Thunder, World of Tanks, or some representation of fidelity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouse of war Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I suppose if the devs ran an alternative server to cater to a different audience less into realism then that's fine of course - it wouldn't be for me 'cos I would go along with pretty much everything the original poster said 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharden Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 While I am also all for a realistic approach to the game, some concessions towards playability have to be made. You cant make people sail from europe to America in real time for example. So far i think the devs are really doing a good job on the part of realism vs.... i wouldnt call it arcade, more of game-adaption. So we should really wait a bit for what they have in store and then propose tweaks/improvements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIerrick de Badas Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I think a pvp game lost is mind when dev become to nerf and up ships due of small community loosing. On potbs dev spend most of them time upgrading ships or nerfing them and balancing skills in the same way. Sometimes it works fine, sometimes it was horrible. the problem is when few people felle they are loosing they don't want to improve nd prefer to blam skill/ships/balance. Then devs change again If the game is fine for 80%people you will not get 80% saying it's fine You will have the 20% poeple who find it bad making 80% of noise on forum So, test your game before launching it, test the balance before launching a new ship, studie the stats you get, balance it BEFORE it's launch and keep focusing on what you think is the best and maybe some time, ask players wht they want to make them think your build their game but give them "little choice" as wicvh ship to developpe or rif map or island map etc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileus Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 You seem to be deliberately game-playing my coments in a most hypocritical fashion. From your lowest denominator standpoint you seem to be the one who can't see the other side Again, is this game going arcade or not? War Thunder, World of Tanks, or some representation of fidelity? I didn't even take the stance in the debate. Well, not really a debate, but you get my point. I simply called for leaving room for the debate instead of posting ultimatums with "if you don't do it my way, community is going to hate you!" attached to it. Seems to be good enough reason for you to call me "lowest denominator". Classy, sir, real classy. As for your question - no-one knows. Enjoy your day, good sir, and please try not to attack innocent bystanders when you're out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SYN_Bloody-Bandy Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Do not get me wrong, I am not arguing for unplayable historic reality. Far from it. But if another same ship is waiting for you after the battle, then WTF... This game (and yes, it is a game) has real potential to allow continuing role playing and world interaction. But you can't have that and War Thunder/WoT mechanics, otherwise we'll all be sailing and carrying cargo in ships-of-the-line. EDIT: If you want the same ship back after loosing it, then the lowest denominator is what it is. I call it as I see it, and gameplaying my postion is nothing but trolling me. So, am I not allowed to voice my opinion, sir, as a customer and member of this community? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destraex Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 So they would be, I'm with you on that. I just dont think that pirates should be completely restricted from using them. If they can somehow manage to crew and maintain it, they should be free to sail it. For example, if someone from a navy who got commisioned a first rate turns, with his crew, pirate, he should be able to use the ship. How long he can maintain it, thats a completely different question (and I know that its very unlikely that anyone who is even remotely considered able to go pirate would be commissioned a first rate).. So in short, im just saying that pirates shouldnt be blocked off first rates just because they are pirates. I agree with you there, if they can maintain a first rate by having almost a thousand men permanently on ship and hundreds of men and support facilities and massive nation sized budgets to pay for all of it then that's fine. I meant that pirates should not be able to amass massive nation sized fleets full of nation sized vessels. Most games allow that because there is no mechanic to stop them and because their is a mechanic for pirates to basically become first rate nations and own all the ports. In reality most pirates chose small ships and avoided the navy while attacking merchants that usually had 20 or a little more crew... while most also lasted less than a year before being caught. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rodney Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 And yes, if the player went down with his ship the character certainly could be dead. Why not? Have his son inherit his savings and any ships he may have in his dock. Good point there, there's a similar mechanic in development for Star Citizen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernWolves Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I agree with the OP, but I still have some hope about the current community. Current being the key word, full release can't come soon enough, but it also worries me. So. Many. Idiots. Out. There.The game has over 16,000 likes on Facebook, that's awesome and that's also scary. There is probably less than 2,000 of those that would agree with everything you said and 14,000 that will complain until it becomes AC Black Flag. I really hope I'm very wrong about that and if I'm not I hope GL will stick to the true vision. The second I see +2 floating above a ship I'm out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileus Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 If you want the same ship back after loosing it, then the lowest denominator is what it is. I call it as I see it, and gameplaying my postion is nothing but trolling me. So, am I not allowed to voice my opinion, sir, as a customer and member of this community? Sigh. Sure, I played your opinions by asking you to restraint yourself with your aggressive tone, somehow I forbid you from speaking - because obviously one cannot speak in a friendly tone, unthinkable! - and most definitely you're not twisting and mix-matching whatever I say. Im a horrible person that way, and I'm honestly sorry I ever got into this so-called discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SYN_Bloody-Bandy Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert de Keith Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 There has to be more than sailing around and shooting .. and you have to get new content added every now and then or the will get stale. The developers also have to make money regularly or the the game is gone also. That is why all the on line games got to the pay special items etc, 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirones Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 the only thing that would make Naval Action a magnet for the greater mass would make most of the development allready useless since the so called candy crush casuals wich cant handle the complexity of Naval Action would request the implementation of a Mechanics that alows you to crush your enemys by repeatingly smashing your face on the keyboard. this will not happen, the devs will not go this way even if i have to make them stay on current curse by throwing more money in their throat than each Candycrush veteran can bring up because of wasting it on mini retro recyle games that cost 3 bucks each in the app store. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xaal Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 100% agree with OP. Please oh please, don't turn this in a dumbed down arcade-like naval sim. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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