Repair friendly ships in battles

[Koltes]

Suggestion: Allow players to use their repairs on friendly ships.

1. Both ships needs to be going side by side slow (3.5kn or below else it cancels the repair);
2. If you choose to repair friendly ship it still pops the cooldown like if you have repaired your own ship;
3. If you repair friendly ship then its your mods, perks and knowledge that applied like if you would have repaired yourself;
4. Both repairs (two ships repairing one) can be applied simultaneously.

This feature will:
- Add so much more to the strategy and playability of battles;
- Will make sense to bring logistics ships to the battles with maxed up repairs instead of fighting fit;
- Promote ship specialty and team work;
- Allows players on lower ranks to be not just useful, but actually  important in battles of larger ships and learn the ropes under fire

Edited September 25, 2019 by koltes

[William Death]

No.

Repair meta is strong enough as is. Crew 4 + Northern Master Carps + Carpentry Combat Reports + Carpenter perk is too much repair spec as it is, yet everyone is running that (or the poor man's version of that) anyways because its the best.

 

 

Better idea as I've suggested dozens of times already:

• Go back to max 1 repair of hull, 1 repair of rig in battle. No necromancer Rum repair. No cooldowns.
• Reduce mods to a maximum (all stacked) of +/- 5%

 

Result: Game goes back to more skill-based combat, not repair and gear meta.

[Koltes]

35 minutes ago, William Death said:

No.

Repair meta is strong enough as is. Crew 4 + Northern Master Carps + Carpentry Combat Reports + Carpenter perk is too much repair spec as it is, yet everyone is running that (or the poor man's version of that) anyways because its the best.

 

 

Better idea as I've suggested dozens of times already:

• Go back to max 1 repair of hull, 1 repair of rig in battle. No necromancer Rum repair. No cooldowns.
• Reduce mods to a maximum (all stacked) of +/- 5%

 

Result: Game goes back to more skill-based combat, not repair and gear meta.

No.

Amount of HP repaired in battle is still the same as it is now. You choose to repair someone and you yourself is out of repairs.
You choose to bring repair ship and instead of fighting ship and it lowers your team fighting ability, but increasing survivability.

Most successful games have classes, e.g. WOW have healers. EVE Online - logistic ships. War Thunder - repair assist available to all tanks
Something the class is specialized for. This brings more teamwork.


Result: Game goes back to more skill-based combat, not repair and gear meta.
Or a gank fest without escape chances

Edited September 25, 2019 by koltes

[Georg Fromm]

Is NA slowly becoming a fantasy game? I understand the intention behind it, but somehow I would like to keep a rest reality 18./19. century.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Georg Fromm

[William Death]

1 hour ago, koltes said:

No.

Amount of HP repaired in battle is still the same as it is now. You choose to repair someone and you yourself is out of repairs.
You choose to bring repair ship and instead of fighting ship and it lowers your team fighting ability, but increasing survivability.

Most successful games have classes, e.g. WOW have healers. EVE Online - logistic ships. War Thunder - repair assist available to all tanks
Something the class is specialized for. This brings more teamwork.
 

I don't think you understand what I mean.

You damage me. I repair my ship. My alt brought repairs in a fir/fir requin and joined my side. My alt repairs my ship again. I get 2 repairs for the price of one. 

Or you damage me. I repair my ship. My clanmate who hasn't been shot at because everyone focused me lets me have his repair. He repairs me and plays cautiously for 12 minutes. Meanwhile the enemy team is doing the same thing. Nobody is sinking because even focused fire of 4-5 ships against 1 is not enough to sink it the moment it turns away to angle and repair. 

If your goal was to make sure fewer of your teammates sink, then your suggestion will accomplish it. But it'll also mean fewer of your enemies sink (unless you only fight inexperienced players who won't know the proper tactics to use the repair meta). 

1 hour ago, koltes said:

Or a gank fest without escape chances

I escaped many ganks under the old 1/1 repair. I know for a fact you did too. 

In fact, I'd argue it was easier to escape the ganks then. Because then I could string them out in a line behind me, chain, demast, or even sink the fastest ship, pop my repair and get away.

I remember doing just that to you guys before I joined BLACK on PvP2. The remnants of our PB fleet got tagged by a whole bunch of you guys. I had a Bellona that wasn't particularly fast, but it was faster than your ships. After a while, only one of your ships (Connie?) was keeping up with me. I slowed down, tricked him to turn, filled his sails full of holes. Repeated after he did his repair, popped my repair, and sped away to safety. I had a blast, and I remember the satisfaction of out-maneuvering a superior fleet. 

Currently with the multi-repair meta, the game encourages ganks even more. How would you defeat a super fancy gold Bellona that does 13.8kn+, has northern master carpenters, and unbreakable masts? Easiest method is to bring something fast to keep it tagged and get some chain, and a couple tanky ships to brawl it out and sink it. Sounds like a gank to me.

 

You've been out of the game a long time. Perhaps you haven't seen a battle where ships get smashed to the point of almost sinking, pull away for a few minutes, print a new ship using hull repair, and jump right back into the fight. I have, and its not as fun for either side. What would make it even less fun is if we could have an alt (or someone dedicated to staying out of the action) sail away with them and repair them completely back to full.

 

Bottom line:

Allowing a player to use more repairs is not a way to add depth to combat. What it will do, however, is make sure players sink even less often.

 

6 minutes ago, Georg Fromm said:

Is NA slowly becoming a fantasy game?

Sounds like some players would like it to, sadly.

[Raekur]

While the idea is interesting, I would counter with being able to transfer repairs between ships instead. The reason for this is what happens to your idea if someone brings in a small fleet of basic cutters which require no repairs to actually repair a ship? 

[Earl of Grey]

It would only promote the alt-thing ... a ship that sail behind the lines and is only needed once in 12 minutes ... 

[Raekur]

1 hour ago, Gilles de Rais said:

It would only promote the alt-thing ... a ship that sail behind the lines and is only needed once in 12 minutes ... 

This would be true only if the repair ship was in the larger fleet. If it was part of the smaller fleet it would be unable to repair a ship without being engaged. This would greatly depend on the amount of time required for it to initiate a repair. If it could sail up and drop sails and instantly initiate the repair and sail off, then it is not feasible for playability. If it had to stay next to the ship it was repairing for the duration of the repair, then it does not make this idea unbalanced considering that most repairs takes several minutes to complete and during this time both the repair ship and the one it is repairing are susceptible to attack. The biggest impact this will have is during port battles where the attackers are the larger force and can keep a few ships back out of range of the defenders. Since most of the ports have at least one circle right next to the port this would not work very well for the defenders as they have no area to retreat to in order to make repairs that will not be assaulted during the battle.

[Thonys]

9 hours ago, koltes said:

Suggestion: Allow players to use their repairs on friendly ships.

1. Both ships needs to be going side by side slow (3.5kn or below else it cancels the repair);
2. If you choose to repair friendly ship it still pops the cooldown like if you have repaired your own ship;
3. If you repair friendly ship then its your mods, perks and knowledge that applied like if you would have repaired yourself;
4. Both repairs (two ships repairing one) can be applied simultaneously.

This feature will:
- Add so much more to the strategy and playability of battles;
- Will make sense to bring logistics ships to the battles with maxed up repairs instead of fighting fit;
- Promote ship specialty and team work;
- Allows players on lower ranks to be not just useful, but actually  important in battles of larger ships and learn the ropes under fire

if it costs 75 % of your repair crew is would say sure lets do it ... 

but i am not going to repair others .... lol

besides that ..

you will never see this to become reality... the game is basic implementation and what you propose is bringing dept in the game perhaps in 5-10  years you will see something like this,  in some kind of upgrade.

[Genevieve Malfleurs]

51 minutes ago, Thonys said:

if it costs 75 % of your repair crew is would say sure lets do it ... 

but i am not going to repair others .... lol

besides that ..

you will never see this to become reality... the game is basic implementation and what you propose is bringing dept in the game perhaps in 5-10  years you will see something like this,  in some kind of upgrade.

the whole in-battle repairing is utmost nonsense in this scale. please don´t allow a healing magician now too! in naval-action  i want to play a sailing-game and no fantasy-arcade-thingy. leave that to less appealing games

[Teutonic]

I and many others would abuse the shit out of this.

can you imagine if 2 players pop a repair each at the same time? that is 20% +20% repair amount minimum - add in any perks, mods, or books. and you can essentially revive a dead ship.

 

What you propose is not something I would like to see in the game, but you do bring up an interesting point.

we should be able to trade while in battle - similar to how we can trade in port and in the OW. having to trade through a sinking ship is rather irritating and I can see situations where someone uses all their repairs and being able to trade repairs from another ship could be a nice addition.

 

[William Death]

1 hour ago, Teutonic said:

we should be able to trade while in battle - similar to how we can trade in port and in the OW. having to trade through a sinking ship is rather irritating and I can see situations where someone uses all their repairs and being able to trade repairs from another ship could be a nice addition.

Now THAT is something I (and probably many others) could go along with.

 

It should have been in the game a long time ago, IMO. If within looting range of a (still floating) friendly ship, you can trade with him.

 

Even go a step further, and allow us to trade with enemy ships in battle. Chasing that trader who swears he'll pay you well if you don't sink him? Have him heave to and you sail near his ship and trade with him. Then you can choose to be the honorable captain and allow him to go on his way, or be a cutthroat pirate, throw your honor out the window, take his money and sink him too!

[Angus MacDuff]

12 minutes ago, William Death said:

Then you can choose to be the honorable captain and allow him to go on his way, or be a cutthroat pirate, throw your honor out the window, take his money and sink him too!

Lol, I like that a lot, but it needs to be tied into a reputation system.

[Macjimm]

7 minutes ago, William Death said:

Even go a step further, and allow us to trade with enemy ships in battle. Chasing that trader who swears he'll pay you well if you don't sink him? Have him heave to and you sail near his ship and trade with him. Then you can choose to be the honorable captain and allow him to go on his way,

This is a great idea.  Would love this.  The cutthroat pirates with dishonor could be hated and hunted.  No need for special mechanics to ensure fair gameplay.

I seem to remember that the reason OW, and Battle Instance, international trade is not implemented is because some players will cause grief cause they may chose to lie.

Personally I think players will process the disappointment.  Currently trader players can be exploited with a promise of payment for goods/services delivered to another player.  There is no mechanic that makes the buyer pay when the trader arrives.  Agreements continue, the players still trade with trust.

[Severus Snape]

NOPE

[Raekur]

5 hours ago, Macjimm said:

This is a great idea.  Would love this.  The cutthroat pirates with dishonor could be hated and hunted.  No need for special mechanics to ensure fair gameplay.

I seem to remember that the reason OW, and Battle Instance, international trade is not implemented is because some players will cause grief cause they may chose to lie.

Personally I think players will process the disappointment.  Currently trader players can be exploited with a promise of payment for goods/services delivered to another player.  There is no mechanic that makes the buyer pay when the trader arrives.  Agreements continue, the players still trade with trust.

Hated and hunted would only work if the devs put players names back on the ship information.

[Koltes]

19 hours ago, Georg Fromm said:

Is NA slowly becoming a fantasy game? I understand the intention behind it, but somehow I would like to keep a rest reality 18./19. century.

It is a fantasy game

 

18 hours ago, William Death said:

I don't think you understand what I mean.
I think I do man, but you are too focus on the negative side and missing my point
 

You damage me. I repair my ship. My alt brought repairs in a fir/fir requin and joined my side. My alt repairs my ship again. I get 2 repairs for the price of one.
1. I said that you must go real slow in order to do it. 3.5kn or slower;
2. They must go side-by-side, which means if you choose to do it in small fights then you are welcome to. I will sink both your ship and the ship that is repairing you;
3. Also we can add to this that when two ships initiate repair assistance then both of them disabled and cant shoot, cant turn. Just like bracing. If they cancel they go back to normal, with repair countdown timer.
 

Or you damage me. I repair my ship. My clanmate who hasn't been shot at because everyone focused me lets me have his repair. He repairs me and plays cautiously for 12 minutes. Meanwhile the enemy team is doing the same thing. Nobody is sinking because even focused fire of 4-5 ships against 1 is not enough to sink it the moment it turns away to angle and repair.
As per above. Same thing. You need to actually play this scenario in your head. You will see that if anything it makes you MUCH more vulnerable while you repair. This means that you really need lots of team work to protect you. Which also means that this feature will be more useful in long port battle or large fleet fights and will be useless in small fights
 

If your goal was to make sure fewer of your teammates sink, then your suggestion will accomplish it. But it'll also mean fewer of your enemies sink (unless you only fight inexperienced players who won't know the proper tactics to use the repair meta).
My goal is this. I want ships to become more specialized. Have different purpose in the battle. I want battles to be more diverse. World of Warships or War Thunder we have all sorts of different classes that have different roles. No, I'm not saying that this is what we need. But we need something to make one ship to excel at something that others don't.
We lost that when sailing profiles where normalized. We lost that when speed cap was introduced. We lost that when larger ships could enter shallows. We lost that when Victory lost its turn rate etc. etc etc.

 

I escaped many ganks under the old 1/1 repair. I know for a fact you did too. 
In fact, I'd argue it was easier to escape the ganks then. Because then I could string them out in a line behind me, chain, demast, or even sink the fastest ship, pop my repair and get away.
Yes, having good experience and knowing when to pop the repair was the key. However the damages that were done to sails were greater. Escaping was easier back then if you had stern chasers. Now they can get on your stern and you cant do much shaking them off. But that is subject for different discussion

Currently with the multi-repair meta, the game encourages ganks even more. How would you defeat a super fancy gold Bellona that does 13.8kn+, has northern master carpenters, and unbreakable masts? Easiest method is to bring something fast to keep it tagged and get some chain, and a couple tanky ships to brawl it out and sink it. Sounds like a gank to me.
I agree, but this does not apply to my suggestion whatsoever. You're comparing apples and oranges

 

You've been out of the game a long time. Perhaps you haven't seen a battle where ships get smashed to the point of almost sinking, pull away for a few minutes, print a new ship using hull repair, and jump right back into the fight. I have, and its not as fun for either side. What would make it even less fun is if we could have an alt (or someone dedicated to staying out of the action) sail away with them and repair them completely back to full.
I have seen it, I was always around all that time and though didnt commit playing heavily I would pop in and play for a week or two to see what the new changes were all about.
And No I dont like this either. I always said that repairs should have been done that lesser armor you have left when you popped the repair more repair penalty applies so you repair less. Means you have to pop repairs early. When ship is almost sunk then it should repair 5-10% max just so it can float. Also repairing structure on a water to me is sci-fi. Structure should not be repaired at all or a very tiny amount. But then again. This is another subject.

 

Bottom line:

Allowing a player to use more repairs is not a way to add depth to combat. What it will do, however, is make sure players sink even less often.
No. I offer to change how repairs working altogether. Right now they are too OP and not because they repair too much, but mainly because there are no penalties while repairing. Crew transfer is a shit penalty. Its nothing. I was always puzzled WHY bracing disables the entire crew and that even one sailor cant steer the rudder, while we put so many crew on fixing the ship and its still operates, turns, maneuvers, changes sails and even fires broadside after broadside. I believe that HULL repairs (not RIG) should slow your ship below 3.5 kn and disable any kind of turning and reloading. This way repairing cannot save you in small engagements. But in large fights you could come up with different strategy and ship setups.

 

18 hours ago, Raekur said:

While the idea is interesting, I would counter with being able to transfer repairs between ships instead. The reason for this is what happens to your idea if someone brings in a small fleet of basic cutters which require no repairs to actually repair a ship? 

Proposed that many moons ago. Over 2 years to be exact.

 

17 hours ago, Gilles de Rais said:

It would only promote the alt-thing ... a ship that sail behind the lines and is only needed once in 12 minutes ... 

If you dare to repair in a small fight like you described I would like to see you controlling 2 ships, alt-tabing, both half disabled during the repair while facing one good captain. Good luck

 

16 hours ago, Raekur said:

This would be true only if the repair ship was in the larger fleet. If it was part of the smaller fleet it would be unable to repair a ship without being engaged.
Spot on!!! This ^

This would greatly depend on the amount of time required for it to initiate a repair. If it could sail up and drop sails and instantly initiate the repair and sail off, then it is not feasible for playability. If it had to stay next to the ship it was repairing for the duration of the repair, then it does not make this idea unbalanced considering that most repairs takes several minutes to complete and during this time both the repair ship and the one it is repairing are susceptible to attack.
Exactly sir! The assisting ship MUST remain side-by-side with another ship else the repair will be canceled, thus removing 2 ships from the fight for some time.


The biggest impact this will have is during port battles where the attackers are the larger force and can keep a few ships back out of range of the defenders. Since most of the ports have at least one circle right next to the port this would not work very well for the defenders as they have no area to retreat to in order to make repairs that will not be assaulted during the battle.
Usually there is always a room to maneuver for defenders unless its a specific port like Nuevitas or Remedious alike. Also any larger force would have upper hand on smaller force regardless. Just dont forget that assisting ship also gonna have repair cooldown timer so wont be able to repair in return.

 

11 hours ago, Teutonic said:

I and many others would abuse the shit out of this.

can you imagine if 2 players pop a repair each at the same time? that is 20% +20% repair amount minimum - add in any perks, mods, or books. and you can essentially revive a dead ship.
Sure potentially you will be able to revive the ship, however during small engagements attempting to do so will actually kill both of ya

 

we should be able to trade while in battle - similar to how we can trade in port and in the OW. having to trade through a sinking ship is rather irritating and I can see situations where someone uses all their repairs and being able to trade repairs from another ship could be a nice addition.
Not only trade with friendlies, but also with the enemy (which I have proposed long time ago too). Not talking PB fights, but OW engagements. We need more interactions with the enemy.

 

 

9 hours ago, William Death said:

Now THAT is something I (and probably many others) could go along with.

It should have been in the game a long time ago, IMO. If within looting range of a (still floating) friendly ship, you can trade with him.

Even go a step further, and allow us to trade with enemy ships in battle. Chasing that trader who swears he'll pay you well if you don't sink him? Have him heave to and you sail near his ship and trade with him. Then you can choose to be the honorable captain and allow him to go on his way, or be a cutthroat pirate, throw your honor out the window, take his money and sink him too!

Agree. See above link to that proposal 2 years ago.
Here is another two
 

 

 

[Macjimm]

3 hours ago, koltes said:

I offer to change how repairs working altogether.

 

3 hours ago, koltes said:

Not only trade with friendlies, but also with the enemy

Great ideas +10

[Raekur]

How interesting would it be if you could transfer crew off a sinking ship. If there is a possibility of moving goods from the cargo area (repairs) then why couldn't crew be moved. Subtracted from one ship and moved to the other.