Make three Tiers of Wood instead of the two we have

[Meraun]

We currently got kind of 2 Tiers of Wood right now (Due avalability)

TierI: Fir, Oak

Tier II: The Rest

My Suggestion:

Tier I: Fir, Oak (avaliable as it is)

Tier II: Sabicu, Mahogany, Caguairan (Avaliable at 3 - 5 Ports around the Map)

Tier IV: Live Oak, White Oak, Bermuda Cedar, Teak (Avaliable as it is)

 

This woud make the Tier II Woods more attractive. Currentlly you go Oak/Oak + Fir/Fir or you go rare wich will always be Teak/white + Live/white. With an easier second Tier, you woud see medium ships with mabye Caguarian/Sabicu etc.

[Aerospace]

That was what it used to be

[William Death]

Decent, but I think I've got one better: 

• ALL wood types accessible via farms that can be built in any capturable port.
• Capitals and non-capturable ports provide oak/fir only.
• Free towns provide sabicu, caguarian, and mahogany.

Encourages RvR, but doesn't unfairly punish those who don't have alts or are otherwise unable to access the actually-useable woods.

(insert comments about how oak/oak or sab/oak or whatever silly combination is useful because "I sank xxx with my sab/oak xxxx git gud noob" also "but you can purchase teak from traders or even loot from AI...blah blah blah.")  No thanks. I'm talking about players actually being able to make decent ships to go out and fight in, and hopefully not too expensive either. Hitting AI for a week to afford/find enough live oak or teak or white oak to make a large-ish ship is unacceptable. 

I remember 'back in the day' when we only had 4 wood types, with a much smaller difference between specs. And all were easily accessible through farms from any port. Believe it or not, people still RvR'd even without the "incentive" provided by rare woods. Also, shockingly, players were more willing to fight when they knew they could afford to sail decent ships and replace their losses. Risk vs Reward is important, but it has gone too far. 

 

Let the rare resources that make mods be the "incentive" to RvR. After all, with the new PvP shop mods being as good or better, in most categories, we finally have multiple ways to get good gear for our ships. I think the prices are a bit high considering the reward amounts per ship sunk, but thats a topic for another discussion.

 

Tone down the 'hardcore, full-loot mentality,' make it easy once again for players to stay in ships, and online numbers will increase again. PvP will occur more often and the quality of PvP will be better because players aren't trying to either overwhelm or run from their enemies every battle.

[jodgi]

Question to those who pay all those dubs for rare woods: Does anyone go for the middle woods (sab, cag, mahogany...)? Are the best woods so expensive that people settle for middle tier woods?

[Meraun]

5 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Question to those who pay all those dubs for rare woods: Does anyone go for the middle woods (sab, cag, mahogany...)? Are the best woods so expensive that people settle for middle tier woods?

i got Mahogany, Sabicu and Cedar in reach. (for Reals, not Dubloons). I cant reach the Top Tier Woods, nor have i the Doubloons for it. Tahts why i got used to Mid Tier Woods. I like thema ACtually. A Bermuda/Bermuda PFrigate or Caguarian/Sabicu Essex are decent Ships wich dont need permits (yet, dont tell them 🙂

[Njord]

19 minutes ago, William Death said:

Risk vs Reward is important, but it has gone too far. 

More importantly there is no risk with DLC ships, only reward. Otherwise I would simply accept the game turned much more hardcore again. I like your suggestion and think it is the only thing they can do now to make DLC ships somewhat work with economy and crafting. If they give out DLC ships in the best woods for free with a 24h timer, it is only reasonable to give everyone the ability to build "farms" for all woods. Now considering they went exactly the opposite way is rather shocking, since I always had the impression the devs were passionate about their game and tried to act in its best interest.

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

Exactly, we are told to stop waiting for top woods to craft, and oak builds are enough...

I'm all for the 3 tiers , i already enjoy my maho & sab mixed builds.

 

I would also suggest to boost Oak stats: Fir is the top Speed wood at least, and that make it very usefull.

Oak should be top hp or receive a tickness boost +few% speed, it should be to WO what sabicu is to teak in order to be more used and competitive.

[Njord]

36 minutes ago, William Death said:

Decent, but I think I've got one better: 

• ALL wood types accessible via farms that can be built in any capturable port.
• Capitals and non-capturable ports provide oak/fir only.
• Free towns provide sabicu, caguarian, and mahogany.

Encourages RvR, but doesn't unfairly punish those who don't have alts or are otherwise unable to access the actually-useable woods.

(insert comments about how oak/oak or sab/oak or whatever silly combination is useful because "I sank xxx with my sab/oak xxxx git gud noob" also "but you can purchase teak from traders or even loot from AI...blah blah blah.")  No thanks. I'm talking about players actually being able to make decent ships to go out and fight in, and hopefully not too expensive either. Hitting AI for a week to afford/find enough live oak or teak or white oak to make a large-ish ship is unacceptable. 

I remember 'back in the day' when we only had 4 wood types, with a much smaller difference between specs. And all were easily accessible through farms from any port. Believe it or not, people still RvR'd even without the "incentive" provided by rare woods. Also, shockingly, players were more willing to fight when they knew they could afford to sail decent ships and replace their losses. Risk vs Reward is important, but it has gone too far. 

 

Let the rare resources that make mods be the "incentive" to RvR. After all, with the new PvP shop mods being as good or better, in most categories, we finally have multiple ways to get good gear for our ships. I think the prices are a bit high considering the reward amounts per ship sunk, but thats a topic for another discussion.

 

Tone down the 'hardcore, full-loot mentality,' make it easy once again for players to stay in ships, and online numbers will increase again. PvP will occur more often and the quality of PvP will be better because players aren't trying to either overwhelm or run from their enemies every battle.

@admin 

Please, consider this. You said DLC ships allow for more PvP to happen and it is true but with rare woods it is simply pay2win. Making all woods available in farm buildings would make it

a bit more fair to sail crafted ships again. You still need the ridiculously hard to get permits and also labour hours / resources for them. You still need to haul your resources around.

Giving everyone the option to build wood farms for any wood also allows for more PvP to happen and DLC ships won't be hard pay2win anymore. You will also sell more "admiralty connections" DLCs, because people need more slots for the wood production. Most likely you would sell some extra DLC ships too, because this change would make the game more balanced again. You also would have more targets / players for the DLC ships and thus more action and positive reviews = DLCs sold.

More PvP, more DLCs sold, less pay2win. 

Let the rare upgrades / mods be the RvR incentive as @William Death suggested. 

 

 

Rare woods don't work combined with this amount of DLC ships that allow free choice of any wood without cost. 

[jodgi]

54 minutes ago, Meraun said:

i got Mahogany, Sabicu and Cedar in reach. (for Reals, not Dubloons).

Oh?! I've just given up on woods entirely as I can't bring myself to grind much of either cash nor dubs.

Could you explain how it works to get "the shitty" woods for reals? Player sold? Bidding war? How much does it typically cost? 

[Teutonic]

5 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Oh?! I've just given up on woods entirely as I can't bring myself to grind much of either cash nor dubs.

Could you explain how it works to get "the shitty" woods for reals? Player sold? Bidding war? How much does it typically cost? 

I know at least for cag and sabicu - no one buys it at the ports that infinitely spawn it - so I get a healthy dose of it through that.

Honestly wood doesn't make much of a difference except for when it comes to thickness due to cannon penetration and damage.

That being said - I clearly think something has to change in order to make less desired wood more abundent so that players have more options instead of just fir and oak.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Teutonic

[jodgi]

1 minute ago, Teutonic said:

no one buys it at the ports that infinitely spawn it

lol, but that's how it used to be, I thought not even shitty rare woods spawned like that anymore.

Is this accurate for sabicu?

's

If so it's rather inaccessible for me. That would be my choice and not something I'd blame the system for. 

[Bragan Benigaris]

32 minutes ago, jodgi said:

lol, but that's how it used to be, I thought not even shitty rare woods spawned like that anymore.

 

Maho, Sabicu and Caguiran spawn around 2k per day, you can buy them on the market without contract currently.

I have used Maho/Maho, Maho/Sabicu and Cag/Sabicu ships even before the last patches - the difference to Teak/Teak and Teak/Wo wasn't worth the hassle to get and ship it. And i never felt at disadvantage in a battle because of the woods - It was most of the time a matter of skill and sometimes the lack of certain modules (Carta, Copper or muskets).

 

[jodgi]

8 minutes ago, Bragan Benigaris said:

you can buy them on the market without contract currently.

Yea, but where? Do you have to hunt around or is it found where Felix' map indicates?

[Bragan Benigaris]

They are in the ports where Felix map indicates 🙂

[Bragan Benigaris]

I have also found some on other ports but the amount (always around 120-130) suggests that they are from captured AI traders and were sold by players to the market before.

[Suppenkelle]

St. Johns for example had 3.2k caguairan this morning

 

[Teutonic]

2 minutes ago, Koveras said:

Because cag is a shitty wood.. You can't use it for PvP unless it is in the zone and you won't use it in PBs since LO/WO is much, much, much better.

After mods and books it's really not different except for thickness.

Everyone still thinks wood makes the difference - it's the sailing skill of the group that matters most now.

[Meraun]

4 hours ago, jodgi said:

Oh?! I've just given up on woods entirely as I can't bring myself to grind much of either cash nor dubs.

Could you explain how it works to get "the shitty" woods for reals? Player sold? Bidding war? How much does it typically cost? 

i sell Cannnon on a Free Port for living. With those Reals i buy Mahgany and Sabicu in Santa Domingo and Port o Prince. It usally around 25 Reals per Piece. I dont place contracts

[Socialism]

I honestly don’t get the rare woods exclusivity thing if we’re making permits hard to get also.  Why does it need to be THAT difficult to craft these ships?  I miss the days when I can go lose 2 1st rates out screening and then come back to port and crank out 3 more with ease.  

Granted I’m not a math teacher, but the formula of   rare woods + hard to get permits + easy to lose ships = more PvP doesn’t seem to check out. 

[Meraun]

i guess we can all agree, taht either Permits need to go or Rare Woods need to be easier to come by @admin

[Aerospace]

18 minutes ago, Socialism said:

I honestly don’t get the rare woods exclusivity thing if we’re making permits hard to get also.  Why does it need to be THAT difficult to craft these ships?  I miss the days when I can go lose 2 1st rates out screening and then come back to port and crank out 3 more with ease.  

Granted I’m not a math teacher, but the formula of   rare woods + hard to get permits + easy to lose ships = more PvP doesn’t seem to check out. 

= more DLC sold. 

It is the only reason of very rare and expansive woods plus rng and cm permits. 

So I do not understand what we are discussing here. Boss already made a decision. 

[Njord]

22 minutes ago, Socialism said:

Granted I’m not a math teacher, but the formula of   rare woods + hard to get permits + easy to lose ships = more PvP doesn’t seem to check out. 

Apparently more PvP is only good when it's done with DLC ships. 

[AeRoTR]

You can craft 5th level ships with ordinary woods, but crafting SOL with ordinary woods is huge waste of dubloons / reals / cm /vm. So no veteran will do it, unless he is experimenting stuff.

Better find "THE WOODS" and craft it, it is worth it, in fact you have profited  

[Meraun]

38 minutes ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

You must think that all other players are completely stupid, that they don't buy mahogany, sabicu or caguarian. Or do you have another explanation, why those woods are so cheap, meanwhile you have to pay 250 for live oak and 150 for white oak and there is never a stock in port for players who wanna buy without contract? 

Experienced players will not sail your bermuda-bermuda frigates or your caguarian-sabicu essexes. This threat is nothing but whitewashing a broken game mechanic. It delivers good excuses for devs to keep everything like it is. What will kill the game sooner or later.

Graf, i do know more expierence Players woud never use  caguarian-sabicu Essexs. i also know a live Oak/White Oak Essex is better then a Caguarian/Sabicu. But i can get all in need for a Caguarian/Sabicu in 45 min and i ccost me around 50k Reals. So i rather use and lose a Caguarian/Sabicu Essex then spend soo much time and Reals/Dubloons on a live Oak/White Oak Essex. 

im know the mechanic is broken and iam not Whitewashing it. Am actually suggestion to change it.

i posted that in this Thread a few hours ago:  i guess we can all agree, taht either Permits need to go or Rare Woods need to be easier to come by @admin

To stick with the Essex. Do you @Graf Bernadotte believe  7cm(or 4cm on Bow, 2cm Stern) thickness you gain is worth the Effort? While losing 0.43 Knots and turnrate as well?  Not to mention the Crew Portection and the Fire Protection.

i believe your to Focus on the Teak/Live/white Ships your sailing, your not looking left and right.

And this has nothing at all to do with the current Mechanic. I think Getting Rare Woods AND Permits are BROKEN in this combination.

Either Permits need to go or Rare Woods have to be easier to get.

[Meraun]

43 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Top pvp players dont use your wood combo.

Just spend some time looking at the global chat and see what type of ships are moscalb or dron looking for.

i use this Combo because they are Easy to come by, not because i think they are better.  Moscalb and Dron beeing top PvP has probably more to do with their Skill then the Wood they use.