Patch 27 - New Economy feedback.

[Old Crusty]

31 minutes ago, admin said:

Well unfortunately fleet ships have their own post captain or lieutenant (you are the flag officer) and unfortunately they are not as smart as you are in cargo tetris placement thus cannot read your mind (fleet perks). Even if you tell them what to do they might screw it up.

 

That is a very poor excuse for a design flaw. If the Trader was sailing just fine before you captured it, it should sail just fine after you capture it.

[Vernon Merrill]

Most AI Captains have perks...  Many AI trader captains have "Hold Optimization" perk.  

Take this perk and you'll never have this problem.

Choose wisely, Grasshopper.

[Angus MacDuff]

10 minutes ago, Old Crusty said:

That is a very poor excuse for a design flaw. If the Trader was sailing just fine before you captured it, it should sail just fine after you capture it.

I suspect (could be wrong...) that the AI may have had the hold optimization perk before it was captured.  That would not help to you when you're putting it in your fleet, cause as we know, that no longer applies.

[Angus MacDuff]

1 minute ago, Coraline Vodka said:

So traders can no longer sail with combat vessel in fleet into port. This removed the ability to smuggle in and sell combat vessel in an enemy port and removes any protection a smuggler could have. To bad we can't park our combat escort out at sea, smuggle in then rejoin our escort.

LGV Refit...

[Sea Fox]

That's what I'm having to do is go around capturing a bunch of them to use in Fleet now. But they are not as good as the belle poulle or endy in fleet☹️

[Hethwill]

2 minutes ago, Coraline Vodka said:

This removed the ability to smuggle in and sell combat vessel in an enemy port

this removed the ability to be a real badass pro , and end a cruise by attack an AI trader to take refuge in enemy port,  and operate indefinitely from enemy ports.

But i get what you mean. Some eggs were broken... 😕

[Sea Fox]

6 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

this removed the ability to be a real badass pro , and end a cruise by attack an AI trader to take refuge in enemy port,  and operate indefinitely from enemy ports.

But i get what you mean. Some eggs were broken... 😕

For me this was a real time-saver. and allowed me to stay in enemy Waters without having to sail forever to get there. 

Edited November 5, 2018 by Sea Fox

[OjK]

Ok, I think I've done enough testing for some constructive feedback.
We need to bring back some rewards from the Warships. It's ridicoulus, that single trader which require no effort at all to kill, gives tens time better rewards.

That's the pure example of AI fleet I just killed.
After killing 11x 4th rates, the loot was disastrous.
Not talking about crap basic refits, but even the doubloons.

I looted all but 1 (maybe two) ships from that battle. And from all of them, only one of them any doubloons, and it was just 50 of them.

 

Seriously, grinding is boring even if it's challenging.

Is really the only option to make money now is hunting traders? Really?

Edited November 5, 2018 by OjK

[Hethwill]

2 minutes ago, Sea Fox said:

For me this was a real time-saver. and allowed me to stay in enemy Waters that I having to sail forever to get there. 

I know right. Still, i think it is fair. There's enough open ports around.

[Sea Fox]

1 minute ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

I know right. Still, i think it is fair. There's enough open ports around.

I disagree. I don't think that playing style was hurting the game. And having warships in Fleet to escort a trader is not a bad thing. Having Fleet ships escort you gives you a minimal Advantage at best. This mechanic was not hurting the game whatsoever was it?

[TheHaney]

2 hours ago, admin said:

Well unfortunately fleet ships have their own post captain or lieutenant (you are the flag officer) and unfortunately they are not as smart as you are in cargo tetris placement thus cannot read your mind (fleet perks). Even if you tell them what to do they might screw it up.

 

Again, your habit of completely avoiding a dialogue by inserting completely useless and vague flavor text is extremely insulting to the players here. Please answer the question as to whether traders overburdened upon capture is intended, or is going to be fixed.

[Hethwill]

2 minutes ago, Sea Fox said:

And having warships in Fleet to escort a trader is not a bad thing. Having Fleet ships escort you gives you a minimal Advantage at best. This mechanic was not hurting the game whatsoever was it?

I agree. Not disagree.

But the same mechanic allowed for entire Home Fleets to establish a Naval Base in a enemy port... 🤔

[Angus MacDuff]

2 minutes ago, TheHaney said:

Again, your habit of completely avoiding a dialogue by inserting completely useless and vague flavor text is extremely insulting to the players here. Please answer the question as to whether traders overburdened upon capture is intended, or is going to be fixed.

Is it possible that the trader had the perk "Hold optimization", before capture.  That would mean he wasn't overloaded prior to capture

[TheHaney]

1 minute ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Is it possible that the trader had the perk "Hold optimization", before capture.  That would mean he wasn't overloaded prior to capture

That's entirely possible, but my point was less about the answer and more about the Trump style non-response that was given instead of an answer.

[Sea Fox]

2 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

I agree. Not disagree.

But the same mechanic allowed for entire Home Fleets to establish a Naval Base in a enemy port... 🤔

I see. How often was this happening? Was this a problem worth deleting a great mechanic? 

[Hethwill]

4 minutes ago, Sea Fox said:

I see. How often was this happening? Was this a problem worth deleting a great mechanic? 

Don't know how many times, but apparently seems like. In truth I sail a lot and have seen entire fleets of ships of the line 74 guns behind enemy lines. I am certain they didn't sail from the far side of the world. You said it yourself - saves time. One ships is only a nuisance. An entire fleet conquers an entire region.

[Palatinose]

19 minutes ago, OjK said:

...

Proposed possibilities: 

• select mission hunt/s&d for 4th rates - should give you a couple of doubloons
• do hostility missions at ports with a timer but outside of the pb window to not get discovered by mishka. Rewards are slightly better, reals are more
• farm in patrol zone - 20k damage (should be around two 5th rates) give you 2k doubloons

Remember: at the end its all just currency. Time will show the true deficiencies/benefits of the current mechanics.

Got 6.5k doubloons from the patrol zone: 5 kills in pvp including loot (5th rates, I was on 5th aswell)

 

@admin 

If (hope shall never die) the RoE in the patrol zone got altered a bit, these might be the hot spots we had always hoped for. Imagine frigate (5ths) fights and improving skill levels in pvp. A dream would come true.

[Sea Fox]

18 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Don't know how many times, but apparently seems like. In truth I sail a lot and have seen entire fleets of ships of the line 74 guns behind enemy lines. I am certain they didn't sail from the far side of the world. You said it yourself - saves time. One ships is only a nuisance. An entire fleet conquers an entire region.

If a guy put a first-rate in Fleet and sailed a Tbirig and ported in an enemy port then yes he did sail there honestly (even having wind and speed restrictions of a first rate. same thing if he sell his first-rate capped a trader and went to port. 

The only thing different is the element of surprise. This can be achieved by simply logging out in open world. 

So getting rid of a good mechanic is not going to stop any of that not to mention all the crazy stuff you can do with an alt

[Fargo]

8 hours ago, admin said:

Insurance covers cost + (including time). 
Insurance allows us to limit of losses instead of constantly increasing rewards to cover losses. 

No understanding what you want to say, could you rephrase?

8 hours ago, admin said:

if ships are not lost no system will remove the reals. These are only real daily money sinks.
1) repairs
2) crew
3) ship and upgrade recovery
4) potentially doubloon purchases to buy things from the admiralty or finance cost of high end ships
5) port costs

It is impossible to remove the reals without making the system money neutral on average. but in this case a lot of players will suffer. 

What is an average player supposed to earn? People are talking about 100k+ income within hours.

1. Did it increase? Otherwise its redundant.
2. 4 reals/crew is probably redundant.
3. Craftable upgrades i see consume 300-440 reals.10 Hull repairs consume 420 reals, 10 Rig repairs 380 reals, 200 rum consumes 1k reals.
4. What do you mean? Will there be an exchange npc? Buying from other players isnt removing reals from economy.
5. How much is this supposed to be? Probably redundant compared with income of hundreds of players.

Fitting a medium 5th-4th rate ship consumes ~10k reals for cannons, ~2k reals for crew, ~1k reals for upgrades (if crafted), ~2k reals for repairs and rum. 15k reals. Crafting the ship itself consumes ~15k reals aswell. If the ratio is similar for all ships, the insurance would print ~50k reals. 50 - (15+15) = 20k reals. So replacing a fully fitted medium ship prints about 20k reals in this case. How prevent inflation?

Edited November 5, 2018 by Fargo

[Draymoor]

I think one good sink for reals would be to make items in the admiralty shop available in both reals and doubloons. The reals value being a fluctuating value determined by the value of a doubloons in the market. I think it would also lead to players finding a better balance between both currencies when they saw the items value in reals. Currently a doubloon, I believe is being sold at 300 reals. Which would make one labor contract worth 120 000 reals. Currently a lot of players have a lot reals that don't have much use because everyone just wants doubloons. Unless you're a trader I don't see where people would obtain such sums of reals. Unless we start seeing people crafting ships only to sink them with an alt and claim both insurance and doubloons. 

[Kilo60]

To prove how screwed everything is with these new impossibly High DOUBLOON demandment take bow figures for example:

 

Bow figures pre-patch were 20 Combat Marks apiece, which you could obtain after 3 successful missions or battles w ai or enemy players, getting approx 7 each battle.

Now a Kill mission 5th rate only gives 14 DB which means in order to afford a Bow Figure at 300 damn Doubloons each you would have to successfully complete over 21 missions!!!!!

 

So... Good luck finding all these missions near friendly waters and...

Second... good luck finding one that spawns anywhere closer than a 20 min sail away!

 

WTF!!!!

Edited November 5, 2018 by Kilo60

[Tom Farseer]

1 hour ago, Kilo60 said:

Now a Kill mission 5th rate only gives 14 DB which means in order to afford a Bow Figure at 300 damn Doubloons each you would have to successfully complete over 21 missions!!!!!

I agree in that it takes a lot more time to get dubloons by simply grinding kill missions.
However, if you actually sail for a bit to the edges of your nations homewaters, set up an outpost there and start hitting OW fleets and AI traders you will significantly increase your dubloon income because

a) a single AI ship can drop ludicrous amounts of dubloons, though that is dictated by random number generation (something that should at least be adjusted in my opinion)

b) search and destroy missions which you can take in port and will automatically complete over time give higher rewards.

The risk is a bit higher but the rewards are as well.

To be honest, attacking OW AI fleets has long since been the way to go with Combat Orders only being viable for the very beginners. Even before the patch AI in Combat Orders dropped only the most basic upgrades and low amounts of repairs while OW AI had chances to drop very rare knowledge books (worth several millions) and high-end upgrades. Also it get people out of the gank zones where they were usually just slaughtered by veterans looking for easy marks. The safe zones only give a false sense of security. Newbies are much safe in quieter areas spread around the map.

[Kilo60]

52 minutes ago, Tom Farseer said:

I agree in that it takes a lot more time to get dubloons by simply grinding kill missions.
However, if you actually sail for a bit to the edges of your nations homewaters, set up an outpost there and start hitting OW fleets and AI traders you will significantly increase your dubloon income because

a) a single AI ship can drop ludicrous amounts of dubloons, though that is dictated by random number generation (something that should at least be adjusted in my opinion)

b) search and destroy missions which you can take in port and will automatically complete over time give higher rewards.

The risk is a bit higher but the rewards are as well.

To be honest, attacking OW AI fleets has long since been the way to go with Combat Orders only being viable for the very beginners. Even before the patch AI in Combat Orders dropped only the most basic upgrades and low amounts of repairs while OW AI had chances to drop very rare knowledge books (worth several millions) and high-end upgrades. Also it get people out of the gank zones where they were usually just slaughtered by veterans looking for easy marks. The safe zones only give a false sense of security. Newbies are much safe in quieter areas spread around the map.

So ganking easy solo AI Traders Snows in 5th rates is the best way to get DB instead of fighting challenging warships now? 

Seems ass backwards if you ask me!

[TheHaney]

4 minutes ago, Kilo60 said:

So ganking easy solo AI Traders Snows in 5th rates is the best way to get DB instead of fighting challenging warships now? 

Seems ass backwards if you ask me!

Traders for money, warships for modules? To be honest that makes pretty good sense to me.

[Vernon Merrill]

4 minutes ago, Kilo60 said:

So ganking easy solo AI Traders Snows in 5th rates is the best way to get DB instead of fighting challenging warships now? 

Seems ass backwards if you ask me!

Players on the water is the only real stat that matters..  ALL players are PvP if they are available to kill outside a safe zone.