Crankey Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I have a suggestion for how we deal with long voyages and local areas of operation (PVP/PVE opportunities) As it would be quite impossible to utilise real time for sailing around the world, we obviously need a workaround that is both usable and believable. Obviously I can't do this in just a couple of sentences so bear with me pls I propose that we have a system based on 18th and 19th century trade routes and Port/harbour locations. I propose that your ship is in 1 of 5 states/situations. In Harbour - You are docked and going about your business in the town. In Harbour approach area - interception possible In General shipping area - Blockading & interception possible In Deep sea voyage - Travel only, possible random 'events'. In Battle - Shooting stuff For simplicity assume in most cases, the harbour approach is last 2 miles radius around harbour, general coastal is a band up to 20 miles from the coast. Deep sea voyage is your time compacter to allow crossing of oceans. Harbour approach is always from the deck General shipping is on map but accelerated speed, interceptions drop into deck combat mode. Deep sea voyage is a short period of time where your ship is a dot on a world map moving of its own accord along a pre determined trade route once a route is selected and exits into a general shipping area. Possible random events such as losing topmast in a sudden squall, picking up survivors from open boat(reward/mission), Logging location of unknown island or wreck (Possible mission opportunity etc etc) Before I get shouted at for not being able to interdict those juicy merchantment, or intercept that enemy fleet during deep sea voyage. There were historically very few deap sea encounters for the simplest reason, No Radar, No Satallites. However you could work out a probable destination for your targets and would attempt to put your ships in the way e.g. a favoured frigate captain or a pirate would patrol/cruise a given area of sea because it was a natural location for your target ships to travel through. A fleet would do the same thing to intercept another fleet. This area is your general shipping area. So, where historically possible, each deep sea voyage would start outside general shipping area, and finish outside target general shipping area with additions of known or probable bottleneck areas having additional 'general shipping' feature where you drop back to ship on a map, sail safely through and then continue deep sea voyage. So you 'sail' out of harbour, you mini map through general shipping, you reach and enter deep sea voyage, you 'puddle hop' your deep sea voyage through any additional general shipping areas that could be considered bottleneck areas good for interception, then at your final destination, you reverse the order, dropping into general shipping area, sail last 2 miles to harbour and with luck you safely enter harbour and do your 'thing' Obviously the devs will decide how many harbours/ports will be in game, and it is possible that more than 1 port will exist within the same general shipping area. depending on proximity and importance to the game. I also propose that there is a method of slowing down deep sea travel speed for each additional deep sea voyage within a certain timeframe, this would prevent someone for instance making 10 trips to jamaicas and back to England in a half hour gaming period. Perhaps a greater penalty if you enter harbour for trade or repairs. Something to think on. No pretty pictures I'm sure you guys can picture this yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry d'Esterre Darby Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Wouldn't this remove the need to sit astride a busy shipping lane - you'd just sit outside a port or in the middle of a transit area and wait for people to appear. The transit itself is what protects the merchantman or smaller naval vessel - you're taking a huge area to search for an enemy or prize, and compressing the entire world down to just port entrances and warp gates (this is pretty similar to Eve Online or, moreso, Earth and Beyond's travel system). There would be absolutely no reason to even have the areas between the ports and transit areas, the entire planet would just be a bunch of nodes. It's not a bad idea overall, but I don't think it fits the spirit of travel in this time. I'd far rather see a sped-up travel system similar to PotBS than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crankey Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 Wouldn't this remove the need to sit astride a busy shipping lane - you'd just sit outside a port or in the middle of a transit area and wait for people to appear. The transit itself is what protects the merchantman or smaller naval vessel - you're taking a huge area to search for an enemy or prize, and compressing the entire world down to just port entrances and warp gates (this is pretty similar to Eve Online or, moreso, Earth and Beyond's travel system). There would be absolutely no reason to even have the areas between the ports and transit areas, the entire planet would just be a bunch of nodes. It's not a bad idea overall, but I don't think it fits the spirit of travel in this time. I'd far rather see a sped-up travel system similar to PotBS than this. I understand what you are saying, and the 'general shipping' areas would do the very same thing as the potbs system. I think you forget that we are expecting NA to be Global, not just set in the caribbean so the map is fantastically larger. It makes sense to me to tie in area of operations and travel to coincide with this. The trade routes would fling you out at a random point on the edge of these general shipping areas and their size could be designed to coincide with the Devs choice of balance, to avoid/interdict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim DeGrim Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 As long as it is not like "gate camping" in eve. Meaning, I know where you're supposed to spawn in from the world map into the general shipping area. It would have to be a huge space with *alot* of random spawn areas. The risk for the merchant man is high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Scrub Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 This is something that seems very doable. Bear in mind that I have very little experience in these "open world" games so what I'm going to propose might not be practical, but I do hope it is logical. I would make one small change in that if ship A plans a deep sea voyage at the same time as ship B, that there be a mathematical chance (abet a small one) that the server determines that they have encountered each other and deck mode is engaged for the captains to do whatever they decide that they will do, pass quietly, flee or fight. The encounter might be nothing more than a sail on the horizon, or it might be a course that brings them much closer. Chance (like fate) decides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crankey Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 You can't directly compare this to EVE. In EVE the blockading ships sat at correct range immobile for the most part and guns already trained on the unknowing ship or fleet coming through a gate. Both the coastal area and the general shipping area should give all shipping a chance to intercept or avoid. A blockade is for instance a 'gate camp', a man of war or letter of marque hoping to snatch a merchantment will 'gate camp'. You have to leave in the game some opportunity for this to occur. What will be perhaps more important than the gate camp situation is how convoys will be introduced. in times of war solo merchantmen were at great risk of interdiction if they did not avail themselves of the slower yet protected convoy system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim DeGrim Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Port blockade excluded. That is different in so far as it is an intended game mechanic (I assume). But if I spawn in from the world make and I am instantly jumped in the general area... Well... I'd prefer a potbs type map in that case, then I can at least see what is coming and make a choice. But all of this is speculation for now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Black Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I have a suggestion for how we deal with long voyages and local areas of operation (PVP/PVE opportunities) As it would be quite impossible to utilise real time for sailing around the world, we obviously need a workaround that is both usable and believable. Obviously I can't do this in just a couple of sentences so bear with me pls I propose that we have a system based on 18th and 19th century trade routes and Port/harbour locations. I propose that your ship is in 1 of 5 states/situations. In Harbour - You are docked and going about your business in the town. In Harbour approach area - interception possible In General shipping area - Blockading & interception possible In Deep sea voyage - Travel only, possible random 'events'. In Battle - Shooting stuff For simplicity assume in most cases, the harbour approach is last 2 miles radius around harbour, general coastal is a band up to 20 miles from the coast. Deep sea voyage is your time compacter to allow crossing of oceans. Harbour approach is always from the deck General shipping is on map but accelerated speed, interceptions drop into deck combat mode. Deep sea voyage is a short period of time where your ship is a dot on a world map moving of its own accord along a pre determined trade route once a route is selected and exits into a general shipping area. Possible random events such as losing topmast in a sudden squall, picking up survivors from open boat(reward/mission), Logging location of unknown island or wreck (Possible mission opportunity etc etc) Before I get shouted at for not being able to interdict those juicy merchantment, or intercept that enemy fleet during deep sea voyage. There were historically very few deap sea encounters for the simplest reason, No Radar, No Satallites. However you could work out a probable destination for your targets and would attempt to put your ships in the way e.g. a favoured frigate captain or a pirate would patrol/cruise a given area of sea because it was a natural location for your target ships to travel through. A fleet would do the same thing to intercept another fleet. This area is your general shipping area. So, where historically possible, each deep sea voyage would start outside general shipping area, and finish outside target general shipping area with additions of known or probable bottleneck areas having additional 'general shipping' feature where you drop back to ship on a map, sail safely through and then continue deep sea voyage. So you 'sail' out of harbour, you mini map through general shipping, you reach and enter deep sea voyage, you 'puddle hop' your deep sea voyage through any additional general shipping areas that could be considered bottleneck areas good for interception, then at your final destination, you reverse the order, dropping into general shipping area, sail last 2 miles to harbour and with luck you safely enter harbour and do your 'thing' Obviously the devs will decide how many harbours/ports will be in game, and it is possible that more than 1 port will exist within the same general shipping area. depending on proximity and importance to the game. I also propose that there is a method of slowing down deep sea travel speed for each additional deep sea voyage within a certain timeframe, this would prevent someone for instance making 10 trips to jamaicas and back to England in a half hour gaming period. Perhaps a greater penalty if you enter harbour for trade or repairs. Something to think on. No pretty pictures I'm sure you guys can picture this yourself. That's all well and good, but doing that is basically stupid in the sense that this game is said to eventually be open world. What is the point of an open world game if your only sailing for random encounters and port approaches. I don't see the point, I'd rather sail from place to place than have a fast travel with chance of event based travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Vernon Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Crankey, you are not a million miles from a post I made on the NA forums way back. Only my General Shipping Area as you call it was a much wider belt of 100 miles or so in which you could minimap at a time compressed rate. On reaching the outer boundary you would then have the option of a VERY compressed "warp rate", normal time compressed warp rate, or if you are really sad and time rich a real time transit speed to your next band of General Shipping Area. The basic principle is I believe sound, it is the detail that possibly needs work. My intention and I believe yours is to meet the needs/desries of all types of NA gamer from the hardcore "simmers" to the casual player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crankey Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 Crankey, you are not a million miles from a post I made on the NA forums way back. Only my General Shipping Area as you call it was a much wider belt of 100 miles or so in which you could minimap at a time compressed rate. On reaching the outer boundary you would then have the option of a VERY compressed "warp rate", normal time compressed warp rate, or if you are really sad and time rich a real time transit speed to your next band of General Shipping Area. The basic principle is I believe sound, it is the detail that possibly needs work. My intention and I believe yours is to meet the needs/desries of all types of NA gamer from the hardcore "simmers" to the casual player. Very much so Edward. As I stated above, the devs would make those general shipping areas as large as they thought would work best (The 20m distance I quote was a guestimate and very open to discussion) the 'system' itself I feel could work very well. The detail is something that would be worked out by the Devs in line with their own ideas and coding/mechanics restrictions and plans. The whole british isles and channel could be a single zone on the world map if that is what the Devs would feel would be the best sized shipping area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William the Drake Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 We have already seen that the open world will consist of the Caribbean, and will later expand to the American East coast and the Atlantic/English Channel. But what about after that? Surely Coding and Designing the entire world for us to sail will be far too cumbersome and also create 'dead' areas that would never be used (just as in real life). so what if we divided the most heavily trafficked areas of the world, and then leave the area in between (the usually boring vast open-sea crossings) un-designed and as "fast travel/teleporting" areas? Example: (please excuse the crude graphics) Red: North Atlantic Green: Ivory Coasts Brown: Mediterranean Black: South Africa Yellow: South America Light Green: Caribbean Blue: American Colonies/East Coast Light Blue: New France/Canada/Arctic circle Now travel from one area to another that are adjacent will mean and will mean little to the player. At most it will change area chat as well as possible economic resources unique to certain area. However, travel between areas that are not adjacent can be made to be quite interesting. Long-distance travel this way could be made as a sort of "fast travel" but at a price. "Fast Travel" will cost mostly supplies such as food, water, and even goods and money to commence. The longer the distance that is being traveled, the more resources that are needed to commence fast travel. E.g.: Travel from Eastern U.S. to South America will cost little, whereas Canada to South Africa will cost immense amounts of supplies. Second, the different areas can be used as a sort of funnel/filter when concerning the population of ships. This is mostly directed at Ships-of-the-Line: e.g.: The North Atlantic will allow for a vastly larger number of SoLs comparatively to other areas. Other areas will be able to hold fewer in comparison. Lastly, this concept could be expanded even further to the East/pacific: Arabian Sea, Indian Sea, Polynesia, North Pacific (Japan, China, Korea area) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Alvarez Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Say, in the example above, you wished to sail from England to Madagascar. Should you be able to "warp" throught the Ivory Coast safely, or should have to sail the length of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Crossing between zones should be determined by prevailing winds. Try to sail directly from England to New England without plotting a course well to the south, and you're going to have a hard time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herzog Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I like the idea of a long sailing trip across the ocean but thats just me. I think it will make it more imersive to not have any fast travel contained in the game. Plus it may also stop people from doing such things. If someone is watching a certain shipping lane and you just warp out of the way then thats that situation ruined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTMatt Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I think its a great idea but it still would take 50 hours to saill across the caribbean at 12 kts. But if the map is scaled down by half a 24 hour sailing time seems pretty nice. Also love the supply attrition idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chustler Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I like it. We will have to see what they have already got set up when the open world hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Bart Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 well maybe they zone areas up.. like in EVE... when you are in one sea and sail. you need to sail the map out. like in the pvp, and then you can swap to the next area/zone.. dont think they make it "open" so you basic sail from england across atlantic then no1 will ever meet each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5KnuckleChuckle Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 In relation to the expansion of the game map, from a development stand point I would imagine this will rely on the size of the player community (No sense in expanding the game map outside of the Caribbean if there are only a small number of people playing). Don't think that will be a problem with this game but it is a consideration. The other is server performance. If this is going to be one big open world the more chunks of the map you add the more strain on the servers. In regards to fast travel and say the map was broken down as you have it, I would think fast travel would only exist for trans-Atlantic voyage. Maybe you would have to travel to the edge of, for example, the Caribbean area then have the option to fast travel to the edge of either the European or African edge....Initial thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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