Player-selected ships 2015 - Initial Poll

[Prater]

I'm not talking about the Leda class frigates.....

[Rafael]

I think you need to read a little into Britain's response to the US Superfrigates.

Looking at what classes were built and when i think Britains response is overstated as they had frigates that could go toe to toe already as per my last post.

[Prater]

I'm not talking about the Leda class frigates.....

[Kleinburger]

Sorry the Hebe resulted in in mostly 18lb frigates like the Leda.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endymion-class_frigate

This class was lauched the same year as USS Constitution based on anther French frig. Brits did that alot capture it copy and improve.

The article you linked implies that Britain constructed them in response too instead of already having in quantity.

 

"Early in 1812, war with the United States seemed inevitable. To cope with the heavy American 24-pounder frigates of the Constitution-type, the Admiralty decided to build a batch of new 24-pounder frigates. During the long war with France, the standard British frigate was of about 1000 tons and armed with a main battery of only 18-pounders, no match for the big US ships. The only proven design for a suitable 24-pounder frigate was that of Endymion, and in May 1812 two ships were ordered from Wigram, Wells & Green of Blackwall Yard, who were to construct all five ships eventually built. They differed from the prototype by being constructed of "fir" (actually, pitch pine) rather than oak, and mounted an extra (fourteenth) pair of 24-pounder guns on the upper deck forward. All would be reclassified as 50-gun fourth-rate frigates in February 1817; however, the use of softwood in their construction was such that they were only intended for a short lifetime, and indeed all five were taken to pieces after a few years' service."

 

Endymion - Displacement ~1200 tonnes

Constitution Displacement ~2200 tonnes

 

These British frigates were constructed from fir (pitch pine), all the Constitution type ships were made from live oak. The limit of compression perpendicular to the grain of the wood fiber( a cannonball impacting the hull for example)for live oak wood is 2840 pounds per square inch, for pitch pine it is 820 pounds per square inch. It takes a little over 3 times the pressure to cause the equivalent sized live oak planking to buckle and fail then pitch pine.

 

The only thing these British ships had close to competing against these American Heavy Frigates was the armament. Even then the Constitution had 30 x 24lber long Cannons, 20 x 32lber Carronades, 2 x 24lber bow chasers, where as the British rehased version of the Endymion had 28 x 24lber Cannons(not long), 20 x 32lber Carronades, 2 x 9lber bow chasers.

 

Based on this information I am lead to conclude that the British Endymion when compared to the Constitution is only similar in the weight of shot carried on the main armament. She's out of her league to even be considered similar to the Constitution.

[Rafael]

The article you linked implies that Britain constructed them in response too instead of already having in quantity.

"Early in 1812, war with the United States seemed inevitable. To cope with the heavy American 24-pounder frigates of the Constitution-type, the Admiralty decided to build a batch of new 24-pounder frigates. During the long war with France, the standard British frigate was of about 1000 tons and armed with a main battery of only 18-pounders, no match for the big US ships. The only proven design for a suitable 24-pounder frigate was that of Endymion, and in May 1812 two ships were ordered from Wigram, Wells & Green of Blackwall Yard, who were to construct all five ships eventually built. They differed from the prototype by being constructed of "fir" (actually, pitch pine) rather than oak, and mounted an extra (fourteenth) pair of 24-pounder guns on the upper deck forward. All would be reclassified as 50-gun fourth-rate frigates in February 1817; however, the use of softwood in their construction was such that they were only intended for a short lifetime, and indeed all five were taken to pieces after a few years' service."

Endymion - Displacement ~1200 tonnes

Constitution Displacement ~2200 tonnes

These British frigates were constructed from fir (pitch pine), all the Constitution type ships were made from live oak. The limit of compression perpendicular to the grain of the wood fiber( a cannonball impacting the hull for example)for live oak wood is 2840 pounds per square inch, for pitch pine it is 820 pounds per square inch. It takes a little over 3 times the pressure to cause the equivalent sized live oak planking to buckle and fail then pitch pine.

The only thing these British ships had close to competing against these American Heavy Frigates was the armament. Even then the Constitution had 30 x 24lber long Cannons, 20 x 32lber Carronades, 2 x 24lber bow chasers, where as the British rehased version of the Endymion had 28 x 24lber Cannons(not long), 20 x 32lber Carronades, 2 x 9lber bow chasers.

Based on this information I am lead to conclude that the British Endymion when compared to the Constitution is only similar in the weight of shot carried on the main armament. She's out of her league to even be considered similar to the Constitution.

they did indeed build more of them but none of the newly built saw action in the american theatre. The original was lauched the same year as constitution. And Captured the USS President after racking it repeatedly with her superior agility as she tried to run due to Endymion having friendly ships a few hours behind.

[Sir. Cunningham]

I'll be both confused and sad if the first 2nd rate we're getting for this game is going to be the USS Independence, would be such a shame with all the excellent 2nd rates from the period up for grabs, ships that actually saw both opertional service AND combat.

[Prater]

We aren't going to get the USS Independence.  It isn't even close to being the top vote in the rates.  And even if it was, the devs would be out of their minds to make it.  Why is it even on the list?

[Illusive Tabby]

Because someone thought it was a good idea.

 

Rattlesnake is a good idea, on the other hand.

[Sir. Cunningham]

We aren't going to get the USS Independence.  It isn't even close to being the top vote in the rates.  And even if it was, the devs would be out of their minds to make it.  Why is it even on the list?

 

That's my question as well, because it most definitely shouldn't even be there.

 

That having been said the USS Independence is infact the highest voted 2nd rate at this point, which worries me as the devs have just recently asked for ideas on which 2nd rate to add to the game: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/2425-ship-request-2nd-rate/ 

 

Thus I am fearing this poll will either decide upon this, or that it's an indication of what a 2nd rate poll will end up like.

[SchurkjeBoefje]

I have amended my vote to give the Christian VII a sneaky +1 

[Kleinburger]

I'll be both confused and sad if the first 2nd rate we're getting for this game is going to be the USS Independence, would be such a shame with all the excellent 2nd rates from the period up for grabs, ships that actually saw both opertional service AND combat.

Its not even possible there are no plans of the ship apparently they were never given to the Navy.

 

changed vote to Christian VII once I learned of this. 

[Prater]

3 more votes to tie with USS Independence, 24 more votes to tie with Indefatigable.

[Rafael]

Indi (64) and Agamemnon (64) are the same class (Ardent) Hold them over for Later and make the Ardent class with a option to Razee it like the Indi (44) was for most of its career..

Lets see the Dutch 2nd on the water! < referring to the Christian VII as per the last few posters.

[Flibustier]

Indi (64) and Agamemnon (64) are the same class hold them over for later and make the Ardent class with a option to Razee like the Indi (44) was for most of its career.

Lets see the Dutch 2nd on the water!

 

HMS Indefatigable and HMS Agamemnon are from the same class, thus one ship of the challengers can be moved to the top ten

[Sir. Cunningham]

Indi (64) and Agamemnon (64) are the same class hold them over for later and make the Ardent class with a option to Razee like the Indi (44) was for most of its career.

Lets see the Dutch 2nd on the water!

 

No Dutch 2nd in there ^^ 

[Flibustier]

No Dutch 2nd in there ^^ 

 

What about swedish Wasa, she should also be there ^^ )) imho

[Balsafer]

Actually we need some 4th Rates in the mix like the Mordaunt 

[Don Alvarez]

VOTE FOR AMSTERDAM!!

 

[Sir. Cunningham]

VOTE FOR AMSTERDAM!!

 

 

Was my first vote

[Sir. Cunningham]

What about swedish Wasa, she should also be there ^^ )) imho

 

Depends on which Vasa/Wasa we're talking about ^^  We certainly don't want the flawed one that couldn't even sail 20 min without flipping over and sinking ^^

[Grim DeGrim]

Alas, the Christian and the Broge (Dannebroge) fade into the limelight...

[Augustin]

I gave my votes to Amazon & Téméraire classes, but I was positively surprised to see more obscure vessels like the Turuma class included. I hope we'll see some of those added when the game is more complete.

[Alex Connor]

Alas, the Christian and the Broge (Dannebroge) fade into the limelight...

Don't lose hope, Christian VII is in the top 10

1. Rattlesnake 90
2. Indefatigable 88
3. Amsterdam 82
4. Ocean 80
5. Bonhomme Richard 80
6. Agamemnon 77
7. Hermione 75
8. Temeraire 70
9. Christian VII 68
10. Independence 67

[Illusive Tabby]

Glad the Rattlesnake is at the top. I want something small to fill the gap between Snow and Surprise. Question, though. How many ships are they planning to add? The ultimate top two? Just one? I ask because they separated the line ships from the frigates and under.

[Flibustier]

Glad the Rattlesnake is at the top. I want something small to fill the gap between Snow and Surprise. Question, though. How many ships are they planning to add? The ultimate top two? Just one? I ask because they separated the line ships from the frigates and under.

 

Out of the final poll, 2 ships will be selected by players votes . Also 1 ship will be chosen by a developers wild card.