Player-selected ships 2015 - Initial Poll

[Leviathan]

Nice info Alex. I have read that 6lbers were used originally (though the British opted for smaller guns when they had possession) but that operating was cramped as you said.

[OTMatt]

Re the discussion on Rattlesnake...

 

She is rather fine in hullform, 89ft 3in long on deck and 22ft 4in in beam (giving a ratio of 3.99, compared to about 3.70 for a typical frigate). At the same time, those are very small overall dimensions, her resemblance to larger ships is decieving. The Snow (HMS Ontario) is 80ft long and 25ft in beam, and the generic Brig looks to be about 95ft by 30ft, so between them in length but narrower than either.

 

Given her extremely narrow beam and that this is the biggest limiting factor in armament, Rattlesnake was probably armed with 4 pdrs. Not impossible to have 6 pdrs but they would have been very cramped and difficult to reload, you'd be leaning out the gunport with the rammer because there isn't enough room to run the gun all the way in.

 

Speed is better news though. Although her small size will mean the top speed (achieved in above average wind strength) might only be something like 11-12kts (compared to 13+ for Trincomalee), as wind speed drops she will lose less speed and will start to match outrun even the quicker frigates.

 

I saw this when looking at some of the models, other comments just copy the same quote saying the Rattlesnake carried probably 6 and 9 pounder guns but this one says differently. I wonder if 4 pounders would even be good enough for a ship of that size.

[GERFixer303]

For how long will this poll stay open?

[Alex Connor]

I saw this when looking at some of the models, other comments just copy the same quote saying the Rattlesnake carried probably 6 and 9 pounder guns but this one says differently. I wonder if 4 pounders would even be good enough for a ship of that size.

4pdrs aren't to be disregarded, after all Cochrane's little HMS Speedy was armed with them and she defeated a frigate...

 

I think more of the small ships should be using 4pdrs, right now they can all use 6pdrs without noticeable penalty so the 4pdr caliber is a bit redundant. Something along the lines of 4pdrs with no penalty or 6pdrs with their inherently longer reload plus a penalty for being longer than properly fits into a ship that size. Would make it a real choice rather than automatically taking the heaviest gun available.

[Prater]

Re the discussion on Rattlesnake...

 

She is rather fine in hullform, 89ft 3in long on deck and 22ft 4in in beam (giving a ratio of 3.99, compared to about 3.70 for a typical frigate). At the same time, those are very small overall dimensions, her resemblance to larger ships is decieving. The Snow (HMS Ontario) is 80ft long and 25ft in beam, and the generic Brig looks to be about 95ft by 30ft, so between them in length but narrower than either.

 

Given her extremely narrow beam and that this is the biggest limiting factor in armament, Rattlesnake was probably armed with 4 pdrs. Not impossible to have 6 pdrs but they would have been very cramped and difficult to reload, you'd be leaning out the gunport with the rammer because there isn't enough room to run the gun all the way in.

 

Speed is better news though. Although her small size will mean the top speed (achieved in above average wind strength) might only be something like 11-12kts (compared to 13+ for Trincomalee), as wind speed drops she will lose less speed and will start to match outrun even the quicker frigates.

The Trincomalee can reach 16-17kn

The Rattlesnake is said to have been unusually fast for her design. Maybe this was only in light winds? However, this is what the website for her replica says.  Not sure if it is to be trusted.  Supposedly the Rattlesnake only had one voyage as an American Privateer and was captured early, so how they would know she was unusually fast I don't know.  We also have to take into account that speed in game does not equal speed in real life.

I was able to find these pages/documents online with information about her:

https://archive.org/details/navalrecordsrev00congrich

http://www.awiatsea.com/Privateers/R/Rattlesnake%20Massachusetts%20Ship%20%5BClark%5D.html

http://www.awiatsea.com/Officers/Officers%20A.html

https://books.google.com/books?id=MTATAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA285&lpg=PA285&dq=rattlesnake+mark+clark&source=bl&ots=7isw302hKb&sig=TZV1I6yQEXvi4PjGVeOoi4x-u_Q&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8Fu9VNXPEomggwT3toCIBA&ved=0CCwQ6AEwBTgU#v=onepage&q=rattlesnake%20mark%20clark&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=gYQ-AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA171&lpg=PA171&dq=rattlesnake+mark+clark&source=bl&ots=PolR7z2Oq4&sig=shkxV19gl3bgKnCj6fTEb3fksis&hl=en&sa=X&ei=U1u9VOLXCIOeggSL34LoBA&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBw#v=snippet&q=rattlesnake&f=false

[Captain Armstrong]

A Leda class frigate could make about 13 knots large and 10 close-hauled, idk where you got 16-17 knots,those are clipper ship types of speeds.

[Alex Connor]

The Trincomalee can reach 16-17kn

The Rattlesnake is said to have been unusually fast for her design. Maybe this was only in light winds? However, this is what the website for her replica says.  Not sure if it is to be trusted.  Supposedly the Rattlesnake only had one voyage as an American Privateer and was captured early, so how they would know she was unusually fast I don't know.  We also have to take into account that speed in game does not equal speed in real life.

 

With the lack of reliable information on Rattlesnake all we've really got to go on is the various sources all seem to agree she was fast. And then we can look at the plans and go "unusually narrow hull for her length, fine lines, fast sounds right".

 

Saying that she wasn't as fast as the Trincomalee is really just informed speculation based on the fact that it would take an extraordinary hull design to overcome the top speed disadvantage of being only 60% the waterline length. Similar for saying she wouldn't lose as much speed in lighter winds, that's just general knowledge that smaller ships don't tend to suffer as much when the wind drops, and with Rattlesnake appearing to be fast for her size she might well end up faster than a frigate in certain wind conditions.

 

The armaments details, those are solid though, we have plenty of ships to compare the dimensions they needed to operate different calibers which is why I'm confident saying 4 pdrs are the most likely armament (and that if she did have 6 pdrs they would have been very hard to reload).

[Valkyrie75]

Really need to bring the HMS Centurion in. 

[Prater]

A Leda class frigate could make about 13 knots large and 10 close-hauled, idk where you got 16-17 knots,those are clipper ship types of speeds.

 

 

In game it is 16-17kns....The Constitution gets 15.1-15.3

 

If you give the Rattlesnake the speed Alex suggests it is going to be as slow as the snow and no one is going to sail it.  If in RL a Leda class frigate gets 13, then I would agree with his statement on its speed for being used.  But the Trinc gets 16-17kns at its best angle in game, so then perhaps the Rattlesnake could make 13-15 at its best angle.

[Captain Armstrong]

oh, ingame. I remember reading somewhere that the devs said they will add a multiplier to give ships speeds that look more realistic later

[Barberouge]

Final poll open: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/2994-player-selected-ships-2015-final-poll/