Licinio Chiavari Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Lovec1990 said: I tottaly agree taking capured ship back to port should be far more rewarding than sinking her This is a matter of reworking PvP rewards AND value (craft) of ships. If crafting an Endy is worth like 300k materials (or less)... and sinking her is worth more than 10 (13?) marks so more tahn 1mil... we'll keep sinking them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percival Merewether Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, HachiRoku said: Why? The required speed difference is something that can be great at fine tuning. My guess would be 2 knots because 3 seems a bit easy. Because fine tuning speed isn't that difficult, and there will be very little danger if all you have to do is ram someones stern to board them like Admin says. 3 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said: we need also damage recived based on woods so fir/fir bellona being T boned by teak/teak endy would most likely sink yes, definately. 3 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said: I do hope too a speed limit. Still, if we finally people will stop fighting only gunnery duel like in 1st WW but fitting and taking into account that boarding should be, as historically, NORMAL in age of sail. As having marines on board. I agree, boarding was the common way to end a fight - in that way I think the update is good. But we need hull dmg so 6th rates with boarding mods can't just lay along side a 4th rate and board it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Licinio Chiavari Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, NethrosDefectus said: What's the matter @admin? Not enough Requin sales so you want to make boarding more attractive to drive them up? hello kitty it! Let's get rid of guns altogether, saves and weight and crew needed. Boarding is for real men wanting to kill seeing the white in enemy's eye. The hellokitty is staying at 200+ mt 😎 Nothing bans you to sail with a couple of boarding mods. Ah... you cant cap reload, penetration, repairs... and speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Boarding is. Rageboarding, no. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Licinio Chiavari Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Percival Merewether said: I agree, boarding was the common way to end a fight - in that way I think the update is good. But we need hull dmg so 6th rates with boarding mods can't just lay along side a 4th rate and board it I'd remember a Requin (that's the problem) has 2200-2500 HP... and with Barricades as it is now + brace being able to withstand an attack (contrary of the past) aside being totally dumb, it's not impossible to defend with the same crew. It's pretty easy indeed. Edited September 17, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NethrosDefectus Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 59 minutes ago, admin said: Boarding changes (Experimental+we never tested it) Boarding speed limit will increase This means that if you are on a parallel course and your speed difference is low you can start pulling the target and board. This will have significant impact on the flow of close range battles and will reduce incentive to stern camp using bow guns (you will get boarded) hug the bigger target on a parallel course (you will get boarded) it will increase importance of DD thus we need to update DD for this experiment. Determined defender nerf (Experimental) We don't want players to calculate percentages in their head - thus DD crew bonus will be lowered to 0%. You should be able to clearly see if you can board the target (in case it has DD) immediately by just looking at enemy crew. So you've just changed some lines of code and thought "yeah that'll do, we don't need to test anything here" You say the changes will increase the importance of DD, yet you reduce the bonus to 0%? Unless you had just poorly worded it then this means you no longer need more crew than the enemy to board? Now getting close enough for "Double Ball" to be effective is essentially suicide? You want to stop small ship stern camping big ships? Do you suggest a Snow should go broadside to Broadside (at enough range for for all the big ship's guns to be able to hit I might add) for the whole battle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Loorkon Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 33 minutes ago, admin said: le requin cant keep up with anything at 180. I hope you will add this in the tutorial, otherwise we will loose much more new players in the reinforcementzones. You should consider to change the RoE in the savezones, too. Without this, new players in small frigates will get even more frustrated. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NethrosDefectus Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 22 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said: Boarding is for real men wanting to kill seeing the white in enemy's eye. The hellokitty is staying at 200+ mt 😎 Nothing bans you to sail with a couple of boarding mods. Ah... you cant cap reload, penetration, repairs... and speed. I'll pass on taking "combat" advice from you if it's all the same 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Licinio Chiavari Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 7 hours ago, NethrosDefectus said: Now getting close enough for "Double Ball" to be effective is essentially suicide? AFAIK you can have (and I have usually) double ball perk AND some (or full) boarding books on your ship. 7 hours ago, NethrosDefectus said: You want to stop small ship stern camping big ships? Do you suggest a Snow should go broadside to Broadside (at enough range for for all the big ship's guns to be able to hit I might add) for the whole battle? May be, fairly reasonably... a Snow SHOULD NOT EVER THINK TO ATTACK A SHIP OF THE LINE. Like a Requin... because she can be boarded by a full crew Bucetaure at the start of the battle. And die. 7 hours ago, Sir Loorkon said: I hope you will add this in the tutorial, otherwise we will loose much more new players in the reinforcementzones. You should consider to change the RoE in the savezones, too. Without this, new players in small frigates will get even more frustrated. Proper Boarding training in tutorial is imperative indeed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Fishy Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, z4ys said: However, most of us more accustomed to units of feet and knots are probably more familiar with the Froude Number's close relation - the Speed/Length Ratio. This discovery enabled Froude to compare the performance of boats of different length. For example a 25ft sailboat moving at 5 knots would have the same S/L Ratio at a 100ft patrol boat steaming along at 10knots, and consequently both would develop the same resistance per ton of displacement at those speeds. That makes it even possible to theoretically calc Hull speed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_speed But be careful: I'm very aware of the concept, never tried it for a historic ship though, it has always seemed to me as something far more useful for modern steel built ships. 3 hours ago, Banished Privateer said: 1,34 value is for the modern ships, older ships had different factor. This is also not "speed" but theoretical "hull speed" and there are many ways to extend it. Do you or does anyone here have a figure more appropriate for wooden warships by chance? Edited September 17, 2018 by Fluffy Fishy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percival Merewether Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said: I'd remember a Requin (that's the problem) has 2200-2500 HP... and with Barricades as it is now + brace being able to withstand an attack (contrary of the past) aside being totally dumb, it's not impossible to defend with the same crew. yeah, but let's be real for a second.. the crew from a Requin climbing the sides of the Agamemnon at 10+ kts is not going to happen. Not at that speed. Anyways, we both agree we need a max speed, so won't be much of a problem. But a Requin ramming an Agamemnon has to have some effect. This patch has made ramming much more important than ever before. can't we agree that there has to be consequences? I don't like shutting my eyes to one thing but supporting another when the two are undeniably connected. Boarding at high speed was avoided due to dmg. You could always implement a feature that limits dmg to a ship if it's in battle sails. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetooth Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 hour ago, admin said: Hotfix will be applied on wednesday and will include Mark rewards, XP, gold rewards changes to prepare for the new economy patch Hammocks and extra crew bonuses will be nerfed (especially for 6th 7th rates) Current max potential bonus of 55% is too huge to wait for port UI Boarding changes (Experimental+we never tested it) Boarding speed limit will increase This means that if you are on a parallel course and your speed difference is low you can start pulling the target and board. This will have significant impact on the flow of close range battles and will reduce incentive to stern camp using bow guns (you will get boarded) hug the bigger target on a parallel course (you will get boarded) it will increase importance of DD thus we need to update DD for this experiment. Determined defender nerf (Experimental) We don't want players to calculate percentages in their head - thus DD crew bonus will be lowered to 0%. You should be able to clearly see if you can board the target (in case it has DD) immediately by just looking at enemy crew. Excellent lets test THEN analyse. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NethrosDefectus Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Just now, Percival Merewether said: But a Requin ramming an Agamemnon has to have some effect. This patch has made ramming much more important than ever before. can't we agree that there has to be consequences? I don't like shutting my eyes to one thing but supporting another when the two are undeniably connected. Boarding at high speed was avoided due to dmg. You could always implement a feature that limits dmg to a ship if it's in battle sails. They wont be adding ramming damage, they had it before and couldn't fix the issues with it so I very much doubt they will reintroduce it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Licinio Chiavari Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Percival Merewether said: yeah, but let's be real for a second.. the crew from a Requin climbing the sides of the Agamemnon at 10+ kts is not going to happen. Not at that speed. Anyways, we both agree we need a max speed, so won't be much of a problem. But a Requin ramming an Agamemnon has to have some effect. This patch has made ramming much more important than ever before. can't we agree that there has to be consequences? I don't like shutting my eyes to one thing but supporting another when the two are undeniably connected. Boarding at high speed was avoided due to dmg. You could always implement a feature that limits dmg to a ship if it's in battle sails. I totally agree that a maximum speed limit is required. About ramming... previous almost insta-sinking was a bit broken. Some more damage (especially for the smaller ship) could be done, I hope: I do not like rams. I consider them, if involuntary a failure, if purposely done, a necessary evil atm... like aiming to masts (or protecting them). As correctly said by @Crow, let's test and see if we end up with some weird technique to be nerfed. STILL, the idea of Hercules hugging to a 1st rate being a SUICIDE is very sweet. Edited September 17, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 I suggest the speed difference boarding test to also include ship weight difference in the equation. 100 tons sailing alongside 1000 tons, will need the speed difference to be 0,1kn for the smaller to board the bigger. Opposite applies as well up to a max of (value)kn 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovec1990 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Licinio Chiavari said: I totally agree that a maximum speed limit is required. About ramming... previous almost insta-sinking was a bit broken. Some more damage (especially for the smaller ship) could be done, I hope: I do not like rams. I consider them, if involuntary a failure, if purposely done, a necessary evil atm... like aiming to masts (or protecting them). insta sinking is okay if done right any 4th rate or SOL T boning or having head on crash with requin should couse insta sink of requin, but if two sols do the same chances are both will sink 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon Merrill Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Hethwill the Harmless said: I suggest the speed difference boarding test to also include ship weight difference in the equation. 100 tons sailing alongside 1000 tons, will need the speed difference to be 0,1kn There should be a sliding scale on a few things... ship weight definitely. Also the delta required to initiate boarding should decrease as overall ship speed increases, as we talked about before.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percival Merewether Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said: insta sinking is okay if done right any 4th rate or SOL T boning or having head on crash with requin should couse insta sink of requin, but if two sols do the same chances are both will sink I definately agree with that, if you want realistic boarding there has to be a realistic tradeoff. a SotL ramming a Requin should sink it instantly. it is also completely unrealistic for a requin to sucessfully board a 2-decker or 3-decker by matching the speed while sailing behind it. How on earth would the crew EVER be able to climb that high? If any of you ever get the chance; stand behind the Victory and look up, that ship is massive. Even climbing up the back of the Constitution would be nearly impossible, and this is without a defending crew. The Requin doens't even have a bowsprit for the the crew to climb on. They'd have to pull themselves up by ropes whilst moving at speed one at a time, it's not doable. Realistically the Requin would just come under tow, it cannot stop its opponent from moving fowards. the Agamemnon towed a 74 after the battle of trafalgar.. Any frigate can tow the Requin without problems. Edited September 17, 2018 by Percival Merewether 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus MacDuff Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 33 minutes ago, Percival Merewether said: I agree, boarding was the common way to end a fight - in that way I think the update is good. But we need hull dmg so 6th rates with boarding mods can't just lay along side a 4th rate and board it Boarding was often the way to end a fight, when one of the ships was almost stopped, or badly damaged and almost stopped, or dis-masted and almost stopped. But boarding at speed will not be the way to end the fight...it will be all of the fight. Lets rename the game to Boarding Action. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percival Merewether Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Angus MacDuff said: Boarding was often the way to end a fight, when one of the ships was almost stopped, or badly damaged and almost stopped, or dis-masted and almost stopped. But boarding at speed will not be the way to end the fight...it will be all of the fight. Lets rename the game to Boarding Action. That's the point I'm trying to argue here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 We do not know the details entirely and we are testing something the devs need tested. Let's not rename the game to anything. Stand Fast and load the grape ! Oh... @admin, please increase grape lethality against boarding prepared ship crews . Thanks. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetooth Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) It's funny how the requin is still mentioned. The new system will see much bigger ships boarding is my guess.the requin my just have become obsolete... Edited September 17, 2018 by Crow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovec1990 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 @admin any info on fate of Constitution classic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Just now, Crow said: the requin my just have become obsolete... never. one fine interdictor, especially of trade. finally she starts to feel proper and not the "whip of of noobs". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus MacDuff Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Just now, Crow said: It's funny how the requin is still mentioned. The new system will see much bigger ships boarding is my guess.the requin my just have become obsolete... LGV Refit has a big crew, Swivel guns galore and can be stupid fast. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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