Le Requin Testing and Feedback

[Lovec1990]

21 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

I find it very funny to read all the P2W hardcore defenders. 

It is a DLC ship, you PAY for it thus you have the advantage. You can not compare it to BELLONA, anyone who grinded enough can craft a bellona, anybody who grinded enough can mount spanish rig on it ( I do agree sail refits are OP). So it is not the same, crafting a BELLONA with good mods requires lots of grind, if you get your ship sink, you have to grind again etc. DLC ship is throw away.  

A privateer with pirate rig ? a privateer with 60 crew (instead of 250) 12 guns of 12 pounder carros instead of 32 pounders. I dare you guys come farm with Privateer in reinforcement zone. You can run away anytime with it, who give a crap, that is all you can do.

*** Just tell me a ship to hunt down red sail. Which we know you can not hunt down it with another red sail. Runner will fire chain, hunter will fire 2 pd. balls.

 

A P2Winners Short Guide:

1. Buy P2W red sail DLC

2. install standart pirate refit (100k) + install your already learnt boarding+speed mods

3. Go farm the noobs (when you are alone), enjoy rage boarding in your P2W 6th rate up to easly including 5th rates.

4. Form a team 2 red sail + 1 Herc = just tag anyone you please in Reinforcement Zone (can you do that in a bellona ??????!!!!!!!) Fight kill, he is a problem, just go upwind and runaway.

5. Rinse and Repeat

6. Do not forget to come to forum and defend red sail from time to time.

The biggest disappointment in NA history, a pay to win gift from developers insulting all the supporters.

Developers have hard data from server and they already nerfed Hercules 3 days after release becouse players lost their mind over it requin its still worked on you know requin is only good if its moded and sailed by player who knows how too sail it. Also alot of requins sink we here only hear buthurt people cry P2W becouse they made mistakes and Requin/Herc sank them

[MassimoSud]

Dearest @Licinio Chiavari, I will tell the story better:

1. you and yordi, both in requins (as far as I can remember is the only ship I've ever seen you sailig with!) you attacked a hercules exactly on the edge of the capital area ( Kpr). I was going back to port when I saw the battle, I headed back and I joined to try to save the victim (so I'm not the one who attacked a requin in a SoL, but i tried to save a player from two requins).Then please clarify how 2 vs 1 herc is a fair fight since you always  say the you always hunt alone!. 2. As usual you and yordi have used the same usual technique, identified the hercules you have reduced the sails a bit, broken the bowsprit (quite simple with the hercules), push against the wind and board. Two, perhaps three clicks and it s done! Once again "bravo" great demonstration of great skills! You are a champion in the stone-scissors-paper game, in running up-wind, in taunting others players in the chat and in the forum and finally in strongly supporting a flood of bullshits! 3. You can not compare any ship to the requin (only the hercules) because it is a ship that you buy with real money (bellonas, ingers, pirate frigates and co are not!). 4. The requin is the only ship that is impossible to chase even with another requins! (this does not apply to Bellonas, ingers and co). And do not come to tell me that they can be chased by prince or linx or privateer, all extremely inferior to the requin by firepower, hull and sailing profile. 5. You consider yourself a great requin expert, try to improve your skills even on others ships that are not broken, op, and PtW, then come back in the reinforcement and we can talk again (you are a phenomenon and one of the best server players in the Caribbean, certainly in terms of chat and ability to support the unsostaineble, I am a noob but i hunt in reinforcement in bellonas, trincos and hercules (last one Op but at least you can chase hercs with other hercules and even with trinco and endimion and co.) 6. If yordi has laughed I'm happy, always willing to improve the quality of the game even of my opponents, the same can not be said of you, you are able to ruin the experience of game thanks to your dement comments in battle chat and you are only good to decrease the online players (especially the newbie), once again "bravo"!.

[Palatinose]

I think it's fine not to be able to catch a Requin upwind. If it had been a prince the same "issue" would have occured. One could discuss the issue of demasted vessels and their performance. Overall rig damage has a gamey performance, though imo that's not too big of an problem. For sure not one of higher priority.  

@MassimoSud methinks you describe a classical meeting of vets vs newbies. Nearly every square rigger is now able to escape a Requin (even with elite pirate) on 180° (even broadreach). That's ofc if the player knows that. So all (from what I read) you could accuse the two players of, is that they picked on noobs. But who doesn't, or does not gank etc. Think there is a biblical picture including guilt and stones...

Edited August 23, 2018 by Palatinose

[Hethwill]

2 hours ago, AeRoTR said:

I dare you guys come farm with Privateer in reinforcement zone.

Challenge accepted !... again...  

[MassimoSud]

@Palatinose

Maybe I did not say it clear enough, sorry. 

I do not accuse anyone of having attacked in two against one (the game admits 25 vs 1), is part of the game mechanics! 

What I can not stand are these "pro" players who consider themselves to be "fair fighters", when they are players like all the others: they fight if they think they have chances to win and they try to flee if they think they have no chance.

And here is the problem with requins!

The requin is a 6th rate with crew able to board even many 5th rates, with excellent sailing profile (even after the fix), exaggerated cannons, a profile of the hull almost impossible to hit at 200 meters, and with the escape option even without a mast and with 50% sails! 

It is here that I ask you, does it seem fair considering that it is a paid ship?

Fair wind my "dearest enemy" 🙂

Edited August 23, 2018 by MassimoSud

[Lovec1990]

10 minutes ago, MassimoSud said:

@Palatinose

Maybe I did not say it clear enough, sorry. 

I do not accuse anyone of having attacked in two against one (the game admits 25 vs 1), is part of the game mechanics! 

What I can not stand are these "pro" players who consider themselves to be "fair fighters", when they are players like all the others: they fight if they think they have chances to win and they try to flee if they think they have no chance.

And here is the problem with requins!

The requin is a 6th rate with crew able to board even many 5th rates, with excellent sailing profile (even after the fix), exaggerated cannons, a profile of the hull almost impossible to hit at 200 meters, and with the escape option even without a mast and with 50% sails! 

It is here that I ask you, does it seem fair considering that it is a paid ship?

Fair wind my "dearest enemy" 🙂

Exelent for running yes but chasing square riggers can be impossible

[Hethwill]

The cannons she has are listed correctly by specs of the real one 😕

Same with the crew amount.

She is hard to hit, but not impossible.

You know her strengths and her weaknesses. Work on that. Overcome the "dislike dlc" factor. Treat her just like any other ship.

Do not let that influence your performance in combat.

- but, imo -

80BR is extremely low. But she is vessel capable of navigating shallows, so the shallows BR limit must be raised, to accommodate her being the top dog in shallows PB, and values reviewed for all ships.

Her rigging is fairly strong ( but can be shocked ). She resists a lot of punishment if angled ( tested with cedar/cedar ).

 

[Lovec1990]

8 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

The cannons she has are listed correctly by specs of the real one 😕

Same with the crew amount.

She is hard to hit, but not impossible.

You know her strengths and her weaknesses. Work on that. Overcome the "dislike dlc" factor. Treat her just like any other ship.

Do not let that influence your performance in combat.

- but, imo -

80BR is extremely low. But she is vessel capable of navigating shallows, so the shallows BR limit must be raised, to accommodate her being the top dog in shallows PB, and values reviewed for all ships.

Her rigging is fairly strong ( but can be shocked ). She resists a lot of punishment if angled ( tested with cedar/cedar ).

 

perhaps her crew resistance is too high its a open ship she should have more crew casualties so hitting her could couse severe crew loss?

[z4ys]

2 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

The requin is the only ship that is impossible to chase even with another requins!

Wrong you can but you need 2 ships to catch one. (in my opinion thats ok) A combination of prince and privateer can chase a  skilled le requin and deafeat her with no problem.

Ofc it comes down to the tag and position especially when you chase 15.5kn ships but that you should know because you chased speed ingers with your bellona. A good tag is a half gg.

Edited August 23, 2018 by z4ys

[z4ys]

5 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said:

perhaps her crew resistance is too high its a open ship she should have more crew casualties so hitting her could couse severe crew loss?

Crew hitbox got fixed last patch but nobody shoots grape at her so people will never know. Dont aim for the waterline if you not certain to leak her aim for the gun ports or on the deck and crew will die like flies.

[Hethwill]

4 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said:

perhaps her crew resistance is too high its a open ship she should have more crew casualties so hitting her could couse severe crew loss?

Tested and reported all of that. Please try grape consistently into her deck and quarters. Thanks a ton.

[z4ys]

4 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

Tested and reported all of that. Please try grape consistently into her deck and quarters. Thanks a ton.

by the way why nobody suggested to add a "crew dmg modifier to hammocks mods/books" so far

Ah right dont touch my mods

Edited August 23, 2018 by z4ys

[Lovec1990]

things need too be balanced so DLC owners and non-DLC owners will be satisfied as much they can be

[Hethwill]

DLC is not a theme when we look at ship plans and ship history.

[Lovec1990]

Just now, Hethwill the Harmless said:

DLC is not a theme when we look at ship plans and ship history.

True but we still need to find a solution on witch both sides can agree on so we solve this constant crying and that we can get other DLC ships

[Hethwill]

3 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said:

True but we still need to find a solution on witch both sides can agree on so we solve this constant crying and that we can get other DLC ships

I see absolute no crying other than the highly professional round the clock attacks on reinforcement/capital zones, but in truth it is not about the Requin. The Xebec just made sure that wound festered...

There are plenty of "rp raiders" that use the ship in a credible form and we see little crying over it.

http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/26631-if-we-have-to-live-with-reinforcement-zones-then/

 

[MassimoSud]

Only 3 things, from the historical point of view i can remember:
1. This type of ship was not able to absorb a single broadside from any frigate, if it happens it tooks the risk of going literally to pieces (this requin can instead absorb a full Bellona broadside, with the only indication of change course and escape, but I repeat it is almost impossible to hit, different is the hercules who has a hull profile high enough to be hit!). This requin can even bounce the shots if properly angled! Very historical indeed!
2. This type of ship could not absolutely put itself in T position in front of 5th rate or higher, otherwise it was broken in half!
3. This ship was designed for seas and winds other than those of the Caribbean.
So perhaps it is better to focus on the aspects of playability rather than exclusively those "historical".
Last but not least, does it seem right that the most powerful ship in the 6th rank is a paid ship? had the @admin always assured us that this game would never have been a PtW?

Edited August 23, 2018 by MassimoSud

[Lovec1990]

4 minutes ago, MassimoSud said:

Only 3 things, from the historical point of view i can remember:
1. This type of ship was not able to absorb a single broadside from any frigate, if it happens it tooks the risk of going literally to pieces (this requin can instead absorb a full Bellona broadside, with the only indication of change course and escape, but I repeat it is almost impossible to hit, different is the hercules who has a hull profile high enough to be hit!). This requin can even bounce the shots if properly angled! Very historical indeed!
2. This type of ship could not absolutely put itself in T position in front of 5th rate or higher, otherwise it was broken in half!
3. This ship was designed for seas and winds other than those of the Caribbean.
So perhaps it is better to focus on the aspects of playability rather than exclusively those "historical".
Last but not least, does it seem right that the most powerful ship in the 6th rank is a paid ship? had the @admin always assured us that this game would never have been a PtW?

how would you do it so both sides Requin owners and players who do not own it can agree too solution of this So called ˝P2W˝ and balance issue of Requin ?

[Licinio Chiavari]

3 hours ago, AeRoTR said:

I find it very funny to read all the P2W hardcore defenders. 

It is a DLC ship, you PAY for it thus you have the advantage. You can not compare it to BELLONA, anyone who grinded enough can craft a bellona, anybody who grinded enough can mount spanish rig on it ( I do agree sail refits are OP). So it is not the same, crafting a BELLONA with good mods requires lots of grind, if you get your ship sink, you have to grind again etc. DLC ship is throw away.  

Read around. I proposed for better ingame economy (and granted majority of DLC owners would agree - to not damage future DLCs) to convert both Requin and Hercules redeemable from being the full ship to tradable (or not - for me the same) ship PERMIT; I vote yes: so dont try ever entering in such a discussion.

Secondly, with your "value" logic reversed, a Requin is not comparable to any not DLC ship... simply because she costs infinte times more than any craftable ship having DLC a value in real cash and the crafted one none (so 10$ to 0$ = infinite); so using your reasoning on the other hand DLCs should be infinite times better than any not DLC ship.

 

3 hours ago, AeRoTR said:

A privateer with pirate rig ? a privateer with 60 crew (instead of 250) 12 guns of 12 pounder carros instead of 32 pounders. I dare you guys come farm with Privateer in reinforcement zone. You can run away anytime with it, who give a crap, that is all you can do.

*** Just tell me a ship to hunt down red sail. Which we know you can not hunt down it with another red sail. Runner will fire chain, hunter will fire 2 pd. balls.

Your hate blinds again your mind.

- MassimoSud said that not other ship can run at 52% sail from his Wasa. I showed off, as an example, that other ships can.

- I'd sail a Requin with Carros only in a PB, and not always. And I hope to never see again Requins and Hercules (and not SoLs) in Deep PBs anymore.

- I'm crafting Privateers daily as I asked to do to a couple other "shipyards" looking for a couple good to test and to use to attack KPR area. So no need to "dare" me. I was already on this by a week or more (aside asking suggestions to a couple of schooner veterans - that I think they can confirm).

- Two days ago, my mate Huliotkd got ganked and raped very fast in GB safe zone by 4 Princes. No need to use only a Requin to hunt a Requin.

3 hours ago, AeRoTR said:

A P2Winners Short Guide:

1. Buy P2W red sail DLC

2. install standart pirate refit (100k) + install your already learnt boarding+speed mods

3. Go farm the noobs (when you are alone), enjoy rage boarding in your P2W 6th rate up to easly including 5th rates.

4. Form a team 2 red sail + 1 Herc = just tag anyone you please in Reinforcement Zone (can you do that in a bellona ??????!!!!!!!) Fight kill, he is a problem, just go upwind and runaway.

5. Rinse and Repeat

6. Do not forget to come to forum and defend red sail from time to time.

The biggest disappointment in NA history, a pay to win gift from developers insulting all the supporters.

1. correct

2. Be more specific. So weird I regularly ask to GB captains how to better fit her.

3.a define "noob". A R.Adm. is? A Commodore?

3.b there's no "rage" boarding. It's very cold minded preparation well ahead of the battle.

3.c what's weird in attacking a 5th being on a big 6th? Arent Surprises, Renomee and Hercules already able to sterncamp to death a 1st rate? Isnt it considered "skill"?

4. I tag alone everything in safezone up to a Bellona... granted the tactical situation allows it: I know that sterncamping a Bellona will be a long battle. So I need her afar from other ships, in a gale, out of safezone or in a part of it unlikely to have other brits joining any soon.

6.a Please note what I wrote about Requin nerfing. Then speak.

6.b Please note that I am calling a general MODS rebalance/nerf.

 

PS: if it's so super easy farming 50 marks/day in enemy capitol area with a totally uncatchable Requin. Please. Do the same.

May be that you'll:

1. know Requin well, and you'll be far better at countering her.

2. notice that it's not so super easy getting the skin back to home.

3. notice that to make so many kill limiting to rageboarding only 6th is not so easy.

4. notice that to make so many you'll have to dare a lot. And something a 5+ Mil. requin like mine, will sink.

 

[Palatinose]

1 hour ago, MassimoSud said:

What I can not stand are these "pro" players who consider themselves to be "fair fighters", when they are players like all the others: they fight if they think they have chances to win and they try to flee if they think they have no chance.

And here is the problem with requins!

The requin is a 6th rate with crew able to board even many 5th rates, with excellent sailing profile (even after the fix), exaggerated cannons, a profile of the hull almost impossible to hit at 200 meters, and with the escape option even without a mast and with 50% sails! 

It is here that I ask you, does it seem fair considering that it is a paid ship?

Fair wind my "dearest enemy" 🙂

Well I have to disagree on the Requin Massimo. As I said imo it's a question of experience. Any skilled captain in an average square rigger can escape Le Requin (also consider the amount of chains she is able to shoot). Considering the ability to catch her - a comparison. Will you catch a fast 5th with only ohne fast 5th? It's not that likely imo. Why so coastguards outnumber their enemy? They want to catch him/her. So transfer this to a Requin and you will be forced to sail schooner's (that the correct term?) to catch it. One may not like that, but to me there is actually not much of a difference to very fast Hercs, Endys or any other ship being trimmed to hunt in capital waters. 

It's a question of how far people are willing to adjust their playstyle to new metas. I used to "hunt" in capital waters and had to quit this style after battles stayed open for 90 minutes - it probably hasn't been fair before and after the changes it wasn't fair either. Okay the perspectives changed. It's a constant up and down in capital areas. And it's in the same way double standards to want hunters to be always caught as it is to be able to hunt down proper targets and be able to always escape if it gets too much. 

So imo that's a question of RoE of reinforcement zones, but that's another topic. 

Overall that's not an issue of  Le Requin, but players willing to adjust their hunting styles and being honest about that.

Fair winds, apologise my impoliteness please.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Palatinose

[z4ys]

I boarded a fully preped 100moral  fully crewed aga with my prince 188 crew at 75% moral and survived.... I was outnumbered 3 to 1

A surprise captain vs a xebec is only outnumbered 1,5 to 1......

Edited August 23, 2018 by z4ys

[Lovec1990]

12 minutes ago, z4ys said:

I boarded a fully preped 100moral  fully crewed aga with my prince 188 crew at 75% moral and survived.... I was outnumbered 3 to 1

A surprise captain vs a xebec is only outnumbered 1,5 to 1......

its another issue normaly requin is boarding fitted while surprise captain normaly at best has marines only

[Licinio Chiavari]

2 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

Dearest @Licinio Chiavari, I will tell the story better:

1. you and yordi, both in requins (as far as I can remember is the only ship I've ever seen you sailig with!)

Get better informations. Still I loved the idea of a xebec like more than one year ago. So nothing strange I'm enjoying her.

Sidenote: would you raid La Habana alone on a Constitution? why shouldnt I use a strong ship perfectly fitting my raiding style?

2 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

you attacked a hercules exactly on the edge of the capital area ( Kpr). I was going back to port when I saw the battle, I headed back and I joined to try to save the victim (so I'm not the one who attacked a requin in a SoL, but i tried to save a player from two requins)

 Yes. We had to tag so down channel in KPR. Because I saw even a Ocean dropping sails and stopping under Carlisle fort when he saw me coming. So we need to tag what it's offered.

I never said you tagged a Requin on SoL. I said simply it's pretty normal not being able to catch her on a Wasa being downwind.

2 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

Then please clarify how 2 vs 1 herc is a fair fight since you always  say the you always hunt alone!.

OW PvP is never fair. Is it fair that you join with 10+ 3rd-4th-5th rates against me already in battle against 2 5th rate? It happens daily: never complained. I get a bit upset and amused both being called "coward" disengaging 1v10; happening daily too.

Note: I said "USUALLY" not "ALWAYS". The more involved in a growing clan, the more it's happening I have some clanmates with me.

2 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

2. As usual you and yordi have used the same usual technique, identified the hercules you have reduced the sails a bit, broken the bowsprit (quite simple with the hercules), push against the wind and board.

which technique would you suggest in Requin v Hercules battle. Staying side to side?

Technical note: being 2 requins a single Hercules is pretty dead. I got attacked by 2 Requins on Hercules (I thought it was one and I charged him - they ended up being 2).
They failed like 30 mins to board me even if I lost bowsprint (MY fault) in first 2 minutes. And I was able to disengage the first boarding (but having the second requin parked next to me, I was only post-poning my death) even without Barricades nor Boarding Axes.

2 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

Two, perhaps three clicks and it s done! Once again "bravo" great demonstration of great skills!

Try it too. Can be enlighting also to fight back.

2 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

3. You can not compare any ship to the requin (only the hercules) because it is a ship that you buy with real money (bellonas, ingers, pirate frigates and co are not!)

Already said to AeroTr: dangerous reasoning. Because it can be used on the other way...

2 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

4. The requin is the only ship that is impossible to chase even with another requins!

Already said also by others: No.

As I noted, my mate Huliotkd lost two days ago his Requin to a Prussian Prince gank.

PS: I consider Huliotkd a better Captain than me. So if he lost, I'd lose too.

2 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

5. You consider yourself a great requin expert, try to improve your skills even on others ships that are not broken, op, and PtW, then come back in the reinforcement and we can talk again (you are a phenomenon and one of the best server players in the Caribbean, certainly in terms of chat and ability to support the unsostaineble, I am a noob but i hunt in reinforcement in bellonas, trincos and hercules (last one Op but at least you can chase hercs with other hercules and even with trinco and endimion and co.)

I do not consider myself. I am considered.

Last two times we came with a Bellona fleet to KPR... we had to end up sinking AI fleets in your safezone because NO ONE dared to tag. The previous time we ended up making some nice photos... like a line of bellona closing KPR channel.

I have still to point out that an heavy fleet "potential gain to time" ratio is horrible in front of a lone fast raider. Is it my fault too? Read what I wrote about reworking PvP mark reward system.

As previously stated, I was a fast boarder on Renomee like two years ago. So I know how to on other ships.

By the way, let me know how "soft" and unuseful are 3-5th rates reinforcement AIs. Then ever allow someone to call for buffing them.

 

[Licinio Chiavari]

41 minutes ago, MassimoSud said:

Only 3 things, from the historical point of view i can remember:
1. This type of ship was not able to absorb a single broadside from any frigate, if it happens it tooks the risk of going literally to pieces (this requin can instead absorb a full Bellona broadside, with the only indication of change course and escape, but I repeat it is almost impossible to hit, different is the hercules who has a hull profile high enough to be hit!). This requin can even bounce the shots if properly angled! Very historical indeed!
2. This type of ship could not absolutely put itself in T position in front of 5th rate or higher, otherwise it was broken in half!
3. This ship was designed for seas and winds other than those of the Caribbean.
So perhaps it is better to focus on the aspects of playability rather than exclusively those "historical".
Last but not least, does it seem right that the most powerful ship in the 6th rank is a paid ship? had the @admin always assured us that this game would never have been a PtW?

1. if british captains keep firing in the water, it's pretty normal that the Requin will keep "soaking" a Bellona broadside.
For sake of correctness: a Requin can be 2 shotted by a Surprise.
For further sake of completeness, all ships can angle... and there's nothing historical in such a manouver. Still it is used and teached.

2. In game boarding problem. Give boarding another reasonable (I didnt write "easy") way to get started.
Again from historical perspective, boarding was NORMAL in age of sail. So normal being the end of majority of engagements... and by the way, a great share of success of Royal Navy came out the valour of crews and marines during boardings.

3. and already I wrote from an engineering perspective, lateen rig limits were technological. No real limits for profile... not by chance, lateen is modern rigging daddy.

As a PS: do you know raider/privateers/pirates almost never used anything bigger than a Brigantine. Usually Schooners... why? being able to run Navy frigates upwind. So weird.

As a secondary PS: do you know some privateering/piracing schooner crew numbers. Read and get shocked.
No: far more than 60ish.

 

[Licinio Chiavari]

26 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

Well I have to disagree on the Requin Massimo. As I said imo it's a question of experience. Any skilled captain in an average square rigger can escape Le Requin (also consider the amount of chains she is able to shoot). Considering the ability to catch her - a comparison. Will you catch a fast 5th with only ohne fast 5th? It's not that likely imo. Why so coastguards outnumber their enemy? They want to catch him/her. So transfer this to a Requin and you will be forced to sail schooner's (that the correct term?) to catch it. One may not like that, but to me there is actually not much of a difference to very fast Hercs, Endys or any other ship being trimmed to hunt in capital waters. 

It's a question of how far people are willing to adjust their playstyle to new metas. I used to "hunt" in capital waters and had to quit this style after battles stayed open for 90 minutes - it probably hasn't been fair before and after the changes it wasn't fair either. Okay the perspectives changed. It's a constant up and down in capital areas. And it's in the same way double standards to want hunters to be always caught as it is to be able to hunt down proper targets and be able to always escape if it gets too much. 

So imo that's a question of RoE of reinforcement zones, but that's another topic. 

Overall that's not an issue of  Le Requin, but players willing to adjust their hunting styles and being honest about that.

Thank you Sir. Really.