HachiRoku Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 15 hours ago, Przemo said: In my opinion big ship should NOT be afraid such thing like stern camp from canoe like prince and i wont tell you how to do it from developer side. Its not the ships problem. People don't like hearing the hard truth. 90% of the server cannot even sail. They think manual sailing is sailing.... I see players that have been around for years making terrible mistakes all the time. I escape ganks with my slow teak wo trinco all the time even against so called good players because the have no idea how to use wind. Everyone knows when they have wind. 5% of server knows how to us it. There is no excuse to loosing a buc to 3 prices other than you are a complete idiot. I'm sorry but it's true. I challenge 3 of the best price sailors to 1v3 me in a fir fir buc. They won't do it because they know the results. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trino Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, HachiRoku said: 7-8 broadsides and you loose half armor? Sounds fine to me to be fair Not if we shoot at max range and only 20% or lesser of the balls hit ... i have no direct comparison, but i think two days ago my armor wouldnt take any damage at this range. In fact all ships feel like fir/fir now (regarding to armor) ... so when armor is no advantage now, nobody will trade speed for armor ... Edited March 22, 2018 by Trino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) Change, change back, re-change, fix, de-fix, re-fix, un-fix. And in the meantime the poor average player (that does not follow any single new chapter of the forum development) almost every week has to face a dramatic twist in the model of combat in a game that is per se a difficult game. Here is what the heroic average player had to face lately (if he survived the sailing model change): "I finally found that live oak is good and spend 8 mills to grab a 1st rate from the shop and another 2-3 mills for a panzer fitting (earned in X days of mission grinding)" ... "oh wait, live oak is shit now at close quarters and a couple of unrated ships will be able to ruin my day" "Long are the best cannons" (so let's spend another half-crapton of gold to fully equip my shiny new ocean)... "oh wait, now carros are wonderful and small mediums even better". "Penetration and armor matters a lot" ... "oh wait, not so much anylonger since a peashooter can chew a panzer 1st rate at point blank" (so new meta are fast small ships). "Rake is not my thing" ... "Oh wait, today it's overpovered" (so let's bring back regeboarding meta) Final result: ships and module crafters (like me) go but the average player goes I propose at least to award a medal - for the courage - to all the players of this game that are not reading this forum on a daily basis. Please: I'm not saying that this is better than that, but it's time to settle down the combat model, to choose a path and keep it (the ideal balancing is impossible, someone will always complain since there are different ways to play and fight model cannot please everyone). PS: instead, the first one that will answer that it's beta, testing or something similar, will win the "nominalism" proficency certificate. Edited March 22, 2018 by victor 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, rediii said: When I heard that 2 snows sail around basse terre I thought its easy prey in my frigate. Except it wasnt. Would like to see you going against 3 princes TBH Hachi basically thinks he could actually sink the Yamato in a fir/fir lynx and that all the rest of the players (except Otto) are poor misfits. Maybe he is right (I am actually quite awful at PVP), but his "git gud" comments do not help so much the development since a MMO shall be enjoyable and fun tor the mayority of its players not just of one (or very few) player(s). Edited March 22, 2018 by victor 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, victor said: Hachi basically thinks he could actually sink the Yamato in a fir/fir lynx and that all the rest of the players (except Otto) are poor misfits. Maybe he is right (I am actually quite awful at PVP), but his "git gud" comments do not help so much the development since a MMO shall be enjoyable and fun tor the mayority of its players not just of one (or very few) player(s). Only one thing has changed to a more consistent realistic implementation: At very close range at the Right angle any gun will penetrate your ship. This made more ships and more guns useful. As a result you cannot you cannot feel completely safe even if you are sailing a heavy vessel. So using your statement: combat became a little bit more enjoyable for majority of the players especially those who enjoy lighter vessels, IF they time their shots properly. But overall 3rd rates are still kings of the sea, first rates should prefer to sail with escorts, and players will just have to tune the tactics a bit. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, rediii said: When I heard that 2 snows sail around basse terre I thought its easy prey in my frigate. Except it wasnt. Would like to see you going against 3 princes TBH Then let's do it. Yourself, Pala, and Havelock. I couldn't pick 3 better players. Edit. 2 snows vs frigate are also not the same. 2 have a lot of firepower for 1 frigate. Edited March 22, 2018 by HachiRoku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, HachiRoku said: Then let's do it. Yourself, Pala, and Havelock. I couldn't pick 3 better players. I would suggest draw to count as a loss to Princes. Please record this battle on video, if it happens. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Just now, admin said: So using your statement: combat became a little bit more enjoyable for majority of the players especially those who enjoy lighter vessels, IF they time their shots properly. Now let me use your statement: you say the mayority of players then especially those who enjoy lighter vessels (first restriction) then If they time shots properly (second restriction) result your "majority of players" becomes "the players that like sailing small ships and that are very good at combat". Are you sure that they are the mayority of the people that play this game? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Just now, admin said: I would suggest draw to count as a loss to Princes. Please record this battle on video, if it happens. @rediiiit's up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, admin said: Only one thing has changed to a more consistent realistic implementation. At very close range at the Right angle any gun will penetrate your ship. As a result you cannot just feel safe at certain situations anymore, making lower end guns more useful. So using your statement: combat became a little bit more enjoyable for majority of the players especially those who enjoy lighter vessels, IF they time their shots properly. Yes but admin the idea that a light, open decked ship could pass within 100 meters of ANY side without taking damage of the ship is ridiculous. Realistically the crew would be firing down on the ship killing and wounding many crew over the length of time I like the idea someone else proposed, have crew members that fire at enemy ships near them, it could be based on the many muskets you have on your ship with mods etc and do crew damage over time Edited March 22, 2018 by Slim Jimmerson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trino Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 7 minutes ago, admin said: Only one thing has changed to a more consistent realistic implementation: At very close range at the Right angle any gun will penetrate your ship. This made more ships and more guns useful. As a result you cannot you cannot feel completely safe even if you are sailing a heavy vessel. I think longe range penetration has changed too ... the 9ers and even 12ers on my Santi always seems pretty useless unless in close combat, since yesterday they pen a consti at 1000m and more ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trino Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 7 minutes ago, HachiRoku said: @rediiiit's up to you. I think you should do it in a "averange" bucentaur ... T/Wo and normal combat fitting ... there is no proof if you use a fir/fir very agile Buce with full agility fitting ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenris Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 17 hours ago, rediii said: I guess because there is no reason to capture a port anymore except to get a fight. The meaning behind a port is important for players. How often this needs to be said, untill something change 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Just now, rediii said: Do you know how far 1000m is? It's one block on the battle map if I'm not mistaken, gun range for tagging sails with ball is 2 blocks without heel. I could see that penning a fir/fir connie at 0 angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Trino said: I think longe range penetration has changed too ... the 9ers and even 12ers on my Santi always seems pretty useless unless in close combat, since yesterday they pen a consti at 1000m and more ... Pens have not changed. Long guns Angle importance changed. Its lower than before at close to perpendicular hits, and higher than before at close to parallel hits. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trino Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) @rediii You know? Of course i estimate ... whats your point? 9ers pen now at a distance when they two days ago dont. I have to aim about half a centimeter over the hull ... how far is that? Edited March 22, 2018 by Trino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landsman Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 22 minutes ago, admin said: But overall 3rd rates are still kings of the sea, first rates should prefer to sail with escorts, and players will just have to tune the tactics a bit. I'm liking it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Just now, Trino said: You know? Of course i estimate ... whats your point? 9ers pen now at a distance when they two days ago dont. I have to aim about half a centimeter over the hull ... how far is that? You will get penned at no angle with any size gun. You have to stay angled or you're going to get penned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trino Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, admin said: Pens have not changed. Angle importance changed. Its lower than before at close to perpendicular hits, and higher than before at close to parallel hits. But thats not limited to close range, isnt it? So long range pen at best angle is higher now too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquillas Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 13 minutes ago, rediii said: @admin Fights against snows or smaller ships are the hardest battles for SOLs. You have no chance hitting them and they just decrew you very fast. And if Eleazar is right(and I think he is) then with low crew you cant even go to boarding. So a lone Buc is just dead (But tbh he shouldnt even sail a buc alone thats a Bellona thing) Even tho a Bellona probably loses aswell I spoke with captains who fought the Buc, in Princes. They first made the sails, then they reduced the crew below 200. The Buc repaired and healed the crew. They reduced again both. At the end of the battle, they went broadside to broadside upwind to the Buc to get invulnerability and shot her down finally at 20 seconds from the end of the fight. The Buc was out of repairs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 13 minutes ago, rediii said: @Palatinose @Trashlock would be fun saturday? But hachi I hello kittying hate theye trashships. 0 slots but shouldnt be a big issue 0 slots on buc to and I'm not wasting mods on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 17 minutes ago, victor said: Now let me use your statement: you say the mayority of players then especially those who enjoy lighter vessels (first restriction) then If they time shots properly (second restriction) result your "majority of players" becomes "the players that like sailing small ships and that are very good at combat". Are you sure that they are the mayority of the people that play this game? I would not make such narrow conclusion from these statements Timing shots is a skill - but everyone can learn it. Buc guns allow the Captain to have more comfortable pens compared to a light ship Usefulness of more gun types is also a good thing, but this usefulness only works at certain angles. As a result we have more tactical depth, + increase the variety of useful ships (not only white/white oceans) Isolated incident of a Bucentaure owner getting to a point of no return should not act as a red flag. But there is a point of no return, the goal is not to get to that point. Prince alpha damage is 380 on longs Buc alpha damage is 2480 on longs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trino Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, rediii said: Maybe max amount of killable crew by rakes should be higher than it is now to counter this? You mean lower? The amount of NOT killable crew should be higher, so you cant get a Buce under lets say 350 men? Edited March 22, 2018 by Trino 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NethrosDefectus Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Trino said: You mean lower? He meants the percentage of crew that can't be killed should be higher 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z4ys Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) Even apply to princes. But vs a prince I would always sail 180° degree while using a square rigger to get separation. Edited March 22, 2018 by z4ys 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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