Safezone? Yes! For max lvl too? No!

[Hethwill]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

not going to work

capture tiburon plymouth and maracaibo and set them as free towns

We have to take them.

They are not granted  

But sure, I get what is meant.

In the end the fast access to pvp from free ports means zones are close and camped and port ambushes happening all the time - bait and rush port sitters.  

[Corona Lisa]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

not going to work

capture tiburon plymouth and maracaibo and set them as free towns

All players from other natons would still need to sail half an hour to those ports to use them (and back afterwards).

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by Jon Snow lets go

[admin]

8 minutes ago, the Kidd said:

@admin Sorry but if you really think thats true then we really have a Problem with this game... This Safezones bring people to camp it...

aslong as i dont buy whiteoak or driving from a outpost to a portbattle i dont have to leave my reinforcementzone...

a lot of pvp groups prefer standing and waiting near capitals to searching for other pvp groups. And they are still not attacked by people in the safe zones. Incenives come to you themselves if there is a group near your capital waiting to be attacked (which could give you pvp marks + really well fitted ships). 

[Landsman]

10 hours ago, IndianaGeoff said:

Not hard at all.  People being forced to do things they don't want to do stop playing.  People thrown into PvP before they even stand a chance stop playing.  I don't want every session to be full on PvP.  So I will play something else.  I for sure don't want to play a game where my teammates can't get in to help me or me get in to help them when I am sitting in sight of the port.  People that play something else find fewer and fewer reasons to log in and then they fade away.  When they stop coming at all, then nothing will entice them to head out and look for hard action because they are not there.

Then how about these people only log to collect resources/craft or when they have time to PvP? We are not talking about new players here - of course they need protection first but once they hit max rank they have no reason to cry and complain when they didn't get into PvP at all on their way to max rank. Hell, I've seen Master & Commander ranks beat the shit out of rear admirals... 

And let's not forget the game doesn't have average 2k players server pop. There are plenty quiet places to do trading or PvE in peace and if you get hit once in a while - suck it up buttercup, it's a PvP server for a reason.

What really ruins the game is max rank players pushing their 1st rates around in the greenzone instead of fighting in the OW. Especially since we have no incentive to PvP in terms of reward and let's be honest - that's what the average joe wants. PvP marks worked somewhat for a while but they're already almost useless.

If we assume the average player looking for PvP, he will probably look at the current pop and decide whether he wants to play or not. He sees 500 - "Ok, there should be enough action out there, right? ... right??!" WRONG - 475 of those are assholes that hide in their greenzones to do PvE / trading in their private little PvE server right within the PvP server. 

Let's take this zerg pirate clan in my nation that shall remain unnamed. They only sit in the greenzone and complain about how they get ganked by a tiny group of "elite" players, as they call them. Then they have a clan rule that forbids people to solo PvP in clan ships. No, I am not shitting you. They only gank and zerg and at the same time complain about other players that do alot of solo PvP ( the kind of PvP where you learn the most ) being gankers when they can't even beat them 5 vs 1 ?? What a pile of steaming BS. It's why zerglings will always be zerglings - they can't abandon the hive-mind and go balls to the wall PvP until they git gud.

It's always the same.... perma-bads aka the sheep that do only PvE and complain about the PvP game - well guess what bois - learning by doing, you only get better by going out there to fight and improve. Not every player you meet is Liquicity or Ram Dinark so cut the whining.

Yes, the game has its problems - a lot of them to be fair but the #1 reason NA can't pull through is people being little B's, only whining and complaining. Ganking is part of every MMO that isn't Hello Kitty Online. I don't get ganked more than once a month because iam not a retard  I learned to avoid ganks and know where to be when. When I get ganked it is my fault 8/10 times. You can learn to PvP and to avoid being ganked ( to a degree ) but people are just too lazy and rather complain.

Max rank players don't need safe zones - that's BS. It's just that really comfy armchair, that they don't want to get their lazy asses out of...

[admin]

3 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

We have to take them.

They are not granted  

But sure, I get what is meant.

In the end the fast access to pvp from free ports means zones are close and camped and port ambushes happening all the time - bait and rush port sitters.  

Where are they sailing from now? I think you are not thinking it through. There is no freetown that is really close to a british capital or dutch capital. You still have to sail. 

[Batman]

10 minutes ago, z4ys said:

fighting skilled players is no fun because of game mechanics

How can two skilled players fighting each other not have fun?

Edited February 27, 2018 by Batman

[the Kidd]

This waiting groups get attacked... but is this not the signal you need if guys that searching PvP, have to sail to a safezone?

And yea there are not many guys willing to attack a good expierienced group of guys, that want to doo PvP, with all this randoms around... so you will loose most of the time... but this is exactly the Problem... they have to drive to a capital to get PvP and this is no real PvP this are organised battles... they cant do something else then waiting to get attacked or gank a newby that opens a batlle

[Hethwill]

Correct. Was just a radical solution idea and not totally thought over.

In truth sailing should promote groups clashing into each other.

 

[z4ys]

4 minutes ago, Batman said:

How can two skilled players fighting each other not having fun?

because the the way how to fight is dictated by game meta. You know exactly what the other will do and how to avoid and counter and when on the same skill lvl that will last for ever. Thats boring and most of the time a waste of time.

Edited February 27, 2018 by z4ys

[the Kidd]

Sorry same question again @admin do you really think it is no Problem that the biggest part of the community is sitting in safezones? you know they dont sit there because they hate PvP but if you give them the opertunity to do all theire common stuff inside the safezone they will do it because all other way to do it are stupid because the risk is higher... the guys have to leave the safezones so you get your map alive... aslong you can doo all you dailystufff inside youve got no Need for it....

[z4ys]

2 minutes ago, rediii said:

Cant realy agree with you here

guess sin perdon will agree with me or havelock

Edited February 27, 2018 by z4ys

[Batman]

1 minute ago, z4ys said:

because the the way how to fight is dictated by game meta. You know exactly what the other will do and how to avoid and counter and when on the same skill lvl that will last for ever.

If you can only sail meta ships with meta upgrades (and cannons), you're not really a good pvper imho

[z4ys]

Just now, Batman said:

If you can only sail meta ships with meta upgrades (and cannons), you're not really a good pvper imho

not talking about ships or mods. talking about how to fight.

[z4ys]

Just now, rediii said:

I had a battle vs sin perdon and it was actually fun for me

talking about same skill lvl -.-

[Batman]

1 minute ago, z4ys said:

not talking about ships or mods. talking about how to fight.

Are ships and mods not used to fight?

[Iroquois Confederacy]

I know a lot of the "safe zone" complaints are really economy complaints.  Essentially, the Age of the Privateer (patch 10.0 time frame) is dead.  We are now in the Age of the Squadron.  This is because the economy is largely meaningless.  Everything can be done completely in the safe zone, and ships made in the safe zone are just as good as the ones made outside the safe zone.  This has a few impacts:

1.  The only cargo ships carrying goods outside the safe zones are doing trade goods for more money.  (Money is largely worthless in this game.)
2.  If you want to build vessels, you have to harvest materials, as you can never capture them off another player.  (Why transport crafting materials if you can move them entirely in safe zones?)
3.  If you do not have a port producing a material, you cannot craft.  (This was an issue with Poland a couple weeks ago, though I'm currently uncertain as I've been going hard at Kingdom Come since it released)

There are some solutions that would make things more interesting on the econ side, some easier to implement than others.

Easy:  Crafted ships in safe zones cannot have special modifiers or be "exceptional."  They will only ever be 3/5 ships.

Hard:  Remove all crafting goods from safe zones.  Remove all "production" buildings (such as forests and mines).  Send goods out to ports and have them spawn more frequently, but do not allow contracts to be placed.  Actually make people sail out, get the goods, and come back.  Building slots could be used for "Harvesting Experts" which reduce the price / "weight" of those particular goods you purchase.  If smuggler flag is on, triple price.

[z4ys]

16 minutes ago, rediii said:

I have fun in battles vs liq and hachi too

Actually thats the most fun ones, in groups its even better

And that are random battles or arranged ones with sinky? without sinky? I remeber many complains about getting kited in pbs. That happens when you find equal players that know how shit works and exploit the game meta. And Batman ofc ships are used to fight. But for example we had a time as masts never went down and you coudnt repair crew. The game meta was getting in deadmans postion and decrew with stern guns. ofc winning was easy that way but it wasnt fun when you exclute "hey i won". And that is still valid just the how to changed.

Play prince vs prince. It is the shiitiest mirror match you can have when both are skilled. 

Edited February 27, 2018 by z4ys

[Havelock]

I agree to some point with z4ys: Skilled players make less mistakes and therefore the battle is usually indecisive for quite a while. But at the same time a single mistake can end the battle quickly as both skilled players will take immediate notice of it and use it to their advantage.

I recently had a battle against Hachi (@rediii streamed it, maybe he has a link?) that was a draw for like the first 20 minutes. We always traded one broadside, made the correct counter and follow-up maneuvres, gained seperation and tacked to keep the wind between us neutral. Then a windchange happened and i dealt poorly with it resulting in a 2:0 broadside advantage for Hachi which i couldnt compensate and got boarded 10 minutes later.

A bit before i had a battle against Moscalb (@Moscalb maybe still has a vid of that?), a mistake of him in the beginning gave me bow-to-stern position from which i could control the fight for a long time and build up hull, crew, rudder and cannon advantages. He went for my masts but it was not enough to compensate the other damage types.

Both of these battles lasted around 30 minutes, thats really short for a duel. When i duel less skilled players the fights usually end up taking more time since they try to disengage and sail away at some point, this is both time consuming and less fun.

[Raf Van Boom]

If it wasn't for the safe zones you wouldn't be seeing all those people that you see now, they would simply not play...

 

And how did this turn into an epeen measurement thread?

Edited February 27, 2018 by Le Raf Boom

[z4ys]

6 minutes ago, Havelock said:

I agree to some point with z4ys: Skilled players make less mistakes and therefore the battle is usually indecisive for quite a while. But at the same time a single mistake can end the battle quickly as both skilled players will take immediate notice of it and use it to their advantage.

I recently had a battle against Hachi (@rediii streamed it, maybe he has a link?) that was a draw for like the first 20 minutes. We always traded one broadside, made the correct counter and follow-up maneuvres, gained seperation and tacked to keep the wind between us neutral. Then a windchange happened and i dealt poorly with it resulting in a 2:0 broadside advantage for Hachi which i couldnt compensate and got boarded 10 minutes later.

A bit before i had a battle against Moscalb (@Moscalb maybe still has a vid of that?), a mistake of him in the beginning gave me bow-to-stern position from which i could control the fight for a long time and build up hull, crew, rudder and cannon advantages. He went for my masts but it was not enough to compensate the other damage types.

Both of these battles lasted around 30 minutes, thats really short for a duel. When i duel less skilled players the fights usually end up taking more time since they try to disengage and sail away at some point, this is both time consuming and less fun.

now fight random people that dont have a name but same skill lvl. they just disengage

[Hethwill]

If we advance towards fearless heroic pvp OW age of sail then

- battles must start with equal chances, meaning equal access to all resources in port ( mods, books, whatever ) and equal ( or inferior ) numbers and ratings when being the aggressor - the player that presses attack button. So aces can attack even when inferior numbers. Non aces can engage knowing everyone, including themselves, have no upper hand in numbers or ship setups, just handling of ship and wind and broadside timing.

( a lot involved in the synopsis up there including RoE )

Economy ceases to be important IMO in such scenario.

 

 

[z4ys]

atfer all what you guys wrote we must see a lot of skilled vs skilled battles because they are so much fun. so why pvp grps just skip each other?

Edited February 27, 2018 by z4ys

[IndianaGeoff]

1 hour ago, Landsman said:

 

And let's not forget the game doesn't have average 2k players server pop. There are plenty quiet places to do trading or PvE in peace and if you get hit once in a while - suck it up buttercup, it's a PvP server for a reason.

 

That is your problem right there.  Until you realize this, nothing will improve.

Nothing else in your post will do a single thing to fix that issue and much of it is counter productive.  The idea that this game will survive with 300/400 players a night is laughable.

[z4ys]

people that dont pvp kill the server because the game is build around pvp

[IndianaGeoff]

11 minutes ago, z4ys said:

people that dont pvp kill the server because the game is build around pvp

You are correct the game is all about PvP.

I suggest the game be expanded.  But if not, the direction for the game is clear.  But it's OK.  Legends will be the better PvP solution so they have a plan.