Patch 17: Finalization of the sailing and combat models

[maturin]

4 hours ago, Banished Privateer said:

Because it really makes no difference if my ship is just 3-5 or 5-5 with very fast/heavy rig trims. Like I can drop 2 more speed mods and make my ship go 5% faster + very fast = 8% faster. 8% speed makes no difference... or I can make masts have 50% more HP and probably 30-40cm more thickness. Stacking mods in this game is a cancer.

OK, I will gladly make an exception for trims that provide 2 additional perm slots. Wasn't aware of those.

But that's because stacking mods is cancer. Not a '"RNG" problem.

Edited February 18, 2018 by maturin

[Ahoy H.R. Matey]

RNG is BS. End of discussion. If I wanted to play roulette, I would go to a casino. 

Edited February 18, 2018 by Ahoy H.R. Matey

[Westgate]

52 minutes ago, maturin said:

But that's because stacking mods is cancer. Not a '"RNG" problem.

But then you throw in RNG crafting which only exacerbates the cancer of stacking mods. Stacking mods like that is still the main problem, but the RNG crafting isn't helping. If the devs fixed the problem of stacking mods, then RNG crafting wouldn't be much of an issue.

[Ahoy H.R. Matey]

At this point, I honestly would be OK with ditching all mods and all bonuses outside of wood type (and maybe even that). If you cannot arrive to desired performance via any vehicle other than blind luck, then screw it - let's level the playing field entirely.

[maturin]

9 minutes ago, Ahoy H.R. Matey said:

RNG is BS. End of discussion. If I wanted to play roulette, I would go to a casino. 

Tell me all about how you ragequit every time gun dispersion makes you miss a shot with your bow chaser. That's determined by random number generation software as well.

RNG is just an epithet nowadays. Just like cheating and exploiting, we can all agree to hate it, but deciding exactly what it is... that's a different story.

If you're not interested in discussion, feel free to vacate the discussion board.

 

Quote

If you cannot arrive to desired performance via any vehicle other than blind luck, then screw it - let's level the playing field entirely.

If you insist on always arriving at the performance level of "absolute best there is and possibly can be", then that's your fault, not the fault of the mechanics.

Your 1-dura special ship is just going to get revenge ganked at some point anyway. And pay for itself in marks.

Edited February 18, 2018 by maturin

[Ahoy H.R. Matey]

Awesome chest puffing post bro! Do you feel better now? Get it out. Get it all out. There! Good job.

I don't rage quit squat. I'm a PvE peasant. I am here to sail pretty boats and blast bots to splinters. Do you feel scared because you rolled a 5/5 ship and @admin might take it away if he thinks I make a good point?

Fear leads to anger.

Anger leads to hate.

Hate leads to SUFFERING.

Breathe, bro

[PenguPirate]

2 hours ago, maturin said:

Tell me all about how you ragequit every time gun dispersion makes you miss a shot with your bow chaser. That's determined by random number generation software as well.

RNG is just an epithet nowadays. Just like cheating and exploiting, we can all agree to hate it, but deciding exactly what it is... that's a different story.

If you're not interested in discussion, feel free to vacate the discussion board.

 

If you insist on always arriving at the performance level of "absolute best there is and possibly can be", then that's your fault, not the fault of the mechanics.

Your 1-dura special ship is just going to get revenge ganked at some point anyway. And pay for itself in marks.

RNG is the spice of gaming. But some aspects should not have RNG or not to this great of an extent. Additionally, the RNG can be used to benefit mods stacking, so that become an issue. This is two mechanisms working together, each with its own issues so it's not wrong to highlight the frustration compounded when they are used together.

[maturin]

22 minutes ago, PenguPirate said:

RNG is the spice of gaming. But some aspects should not have RNG or not to this great of an extent. Additionally, the RNG can be used to benefit mods stacking, so that become an issue. This is two mechanisms working together, each with its own issues so it's not wrong to highlight the frustration compounded when they are used together.

People were overcome with paroxysms of rage before they even knew what the crafting bonuses would be. This is what I'm talking about. It's like heresy and blasphemy for some folks.

+5% HP (the equivalent of a crappy perm mod that everyone has dozens of) isn't worth getting worked up about.

But yeah, you'll never hear me miss a chance to complain about mod stacking or mods in general.

Edited February 19, 2018 by maturin

[Christendom]

8 hours ago, Banished Privateer said:

Because it really makes no difference if my ship is just 3-5 or 5-5 with very fast/heavy rig trims. Like I can drop 2 more speed mods and make my ship go 5% faster + very fast = 8% faster. 8% speed makes no difference... or I can make masts have 50% more HP and probably 30-40cm more thickness. Stacking mods in this game is a cancer.

features features features....

[Slim McSauce]

19 minutes ago, maturin said:

People were overcome with paroxysms of rage before they even knew what the crafting bonuses would be. This is what I'm talking about. It's like heresy and blasphemy for some folks.

+5% HP (the equivalent of a crappy perm mod that everyone has dozens of) isn't worth getting worked up about.

But yeah, you'll never hear me miss a chance to complain about mod stacking or mods in general.

The bonuses are so small I wouldn't mind at all if every crafted ship received 1 random bonus.

[Slim McSauce]

21 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Would be better to make higher quality ships crafting based on crafting experience or shipyard level or... other skill/exp/time things... That would benefit real ship builders and not some random guy that got lucky with one click and dedicated ship builder that crafted 99 ships and had no luck.

This but if the devs want to keep it RNG based, then add MORE bonuses, better bonuses at different tiers. Then all crafters benefit from the bonus instead of a few lucky guys.

[Ahoy H.R. Matey]

53 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Would be better to make higher quality ships crafting based on crafting experience or shipyard level or... other skill/exp/time things... That would benefit real ship builders and not some random guy that got lucky with one click and dedicated ship builder that crafted 99 ships and had no luck.

That's exactly what I mean.

Give everyone a way to get the "best possible ship" through work, not luck.

Or level the field and give everyone the same ship.

Even WoW gave up on loot casino.

Even Elite Dangerous, the game made by the most outdated-thinking developer in the world stopped it.

RNG is the way of the past. 

[Slim McSauce]

1 hour ago, Ahoy H.R. Matey said:

That's exactly what I mean.

Give everyone a way to get the "best possible ship" through work, not luck.

Or level the field and give everyone the same ship.

Even WoW gave up on loot casino.

Even Elite Dangerous, the game made by the most outdated-thinking developer in the world stopped it.

RNG is the way of the past. 

But it may be proper for NA, because back then many ships were built off the same blueprints, only some (the famous ones we have now) became famous because they performed exceptionally better than their sister ships. RNG does catch this will. However this is also a game, and crafting should be rewarded and your characters skills should matter.

[GrubbyZebra]

13 hours ago, maturin said:

Yeah, the mindless, kneejerk reaction against occasional small bonuses in crafting is just embarrassing to watch.

It's not 'RNG' anymore than the horizontal dispersion on a carronade is RNG. Get over yourselves, for chrissakes.

No one can even articulate why a miniscule bonus on a few ships is even bad for the game. Especially not in the context of perm mods determining whether masts are made of glass or unobtainium, etc.

It's not the extra little mods than the rng gives, it's the extra slots. 

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

Why some random guy should not be able to get bonus? He probably need this more to find a market and get some incitation to continue than any lvl 50 clan alt you call "real crafter". 

 

 

[Holm Hansen]

46 minutes ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

Why some random guy should not be able to get bonus? He probably need this more to find a market and get some incitation to continue than any lvl 50 clan alt you call "real crafter". 

 

 

See it from the other side:

There will also be random guys which never get a bonus.

Especially if they only work for themselves and thus do not produce the quantity of ships.  Where the personal effort they have to crafting a ship is usually even higher.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Holm Hansen

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

As long as it's totally random, that's fine to me, for exemple one of my guild crafter have yet to craft a gold one, and two daysago, crafted me a pink one : a trader lynx.

To be honest i can live without the extra perm slots but i'm quite fan of the random inbuild bonus.

[Hethwill]

The machine is blind and asks - Who are you to think you are not "some random dude" ?

We are all "some random dude" to the machine, no matter how much we wish we weren't.

[GrubbyZebra]

7 hours ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

As long as it's totally random, that's fine to me, for exemple one of my guild crafter have yet to craft a gold one, and two daysago, crafted me a pink one : a trader lynx.

To be honest i can live without the extra perm slots but i'm quite fan of the random inbuild bonus.

no computer process can be totally random, but  well-implemented one can have the appearance of randomness.

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

Maybe there is no such things as random, maybe it's nothing but god's will. 

[Red Dragon 13]

2 hours ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

Maybe there is no such things as random, maybe it's nothing but god's will. 

Some call it predestination

[Galt]

On 2/16/2018 at 5:31 AM, admin said:

 

 

 

so Venice is confirmed? (Attacker's flag)

https://www.google.com/search?q=nvenetian+flag&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS775US775&oq=nvenetian+flag&aqs=chrome..69i57.2710j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[James Cornelius]

On 2/17/2018 at 10:07 AM, maturin said:

Extreme wind changes outside of storms are usually accompanied by a period of calm. Which is to say, a little too hardcore for the level of sailing simulation that this game typically maintains.

 

I don't quite agree here. I have long argued there should be some sort of OW indication of "local wind speed" - not something that affects your OW transit (because that takes long enough as it is) but will have an effect on your battle.

 

Sooooo many battles were determined as much by weather as anything else, and a blowing wind or just a faint breeze can have damning or saving results. I think that, for the sake of PVP realism, this should be modeled. If the wind is barely blowing, a fleet which is organized and together can very much defeat a larger more spread out fleet. And, coupled with the new sail force in the recent patches, would accurately model how different ships were better or worse in some weathers.

 

All in all, I think variable windspeeds in battle (with the appropriate effect on movement) would REALLY spice things up.

[maturin]

5 minutes ago, Sir R. Calder of Southwick said:

 

I don't quite agree here. I have long argued there should be some sort of OW indication of "local wind speed" - not something that affects your OW transit (because that takes long enough as it is) but will have an effect on your battle.

 

Sooooo many battles were determined as much by weather as anything else, and a blowing wind or just a faint breeze can have damning or saving results. I think that, for the sake of PVP realism, this should be modeled. If the wind is barely blowing, a fleet which is organized and together can very much defeat a larger more spread out fleet. And, coupled with the new sail force in the recent patches, would accurately model how different ships were better or worse in some weathers.

 

All in all, I think variable windspeeds in battle (with the appropriate effect on movement) would REALLY spice things up.

A calm or significant lull in the wind would be quite frustrating if it struck in the middle of a battle. I don't think it would be popular in this community.

If we get a SP gamemode, the absolutely. Bring on the waterspouts.

[Jesters-Ink]

Available updates tested and overall feels good. Will test UI when available.

At the moment, less OW fleets to attack, less variation in OW fleets and the loot sux.