Liq Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 7 minutes ago, Batman said: Where to, Liq? dunno, doesnt matter really, maybe french, never been there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 24 minutes ago, rediii said: I have 4 laying around, not tradeable tho, such a pity. Would have been my chance to get rich do you accept tuna? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachy Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 7 hours ago, Liq said: dunno, doesnt matter really, maybe french, never been there Your better than that. The only nation I despise more than Britain are the French. Go pirate or even us.... a white flag does not suit you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 4 hours ago, Otto Kohl said: Nation hopper 😜 ! I never understood why the flag an independant privateer is flying would be important 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 On 11/26/2017 at 10:34 PM, vazco said: La Grace is a 8-year old replica, based on a ship built just before Napoleonic wars. The biggest warship of Czech navy in history - whole 8 guns Whole ship is replicated with a lot of details. Sparing main rigging lines ("wanta, sztag, achtersztag" in Polish, I don't know english names) made of metal and safety equipment made of plastic, everything on deck is built just like the original. La Grace was going quite sharply to the wind. The limit was that yards were slowing you down when not set parallel to the wind. Since you can't put them parallel to the deck, they were limiting how sharp you can go. We were sailing with 3 staysails and a mizzen against the wind. Huh, not sure I follow. This is just a diagram from Surprise Sim, but it shows that when your yards are braced up to 60 degrees, they are parallel to the wind at 45 degrees (the best any traditional sailing vessel can do). So the square sails would be shivering and providing no thrust, but they could easily be laid parallel to the wind. Does La Grace have trouble bracing her yards to 60 degrees? That would be a common problem with 18th Century rigging, requiring careful manipulation of the truss and lifts of the lower yards. But yeah, maybe light brigs like La Grace, with proportionately large gaff mainsail and well-cut staysails, actually could make headway under fore/aft canvas alone. At that tonnage, the square sails are quite small and low-aspect, compared to the lofty rig of a full-rigged ship with poorly-shaped quadrilateral staysails. I wonder what your speed and leeway was like though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 On 27.11.2017 at 4:34 AM, vazco said: "wanta, sztag, achtersztag" in Polish Cool, those would be German origin words? We say the same "vant, stag and akterstag" in Norwegian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vazco Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) On 27/11/2017 at 11:06 AM, Hethwill said: Overall the new proportions of sail plans versus hull mass feels good. Is just that "rotation" that feels really odd. I'm not sure what's wrong, however I think rotation is quite right... I'll think about it, as definitely something is odd. As for rotation on small speeds - on lower speeds keel effect is lower, which should make rotation on sails easier. On 28/11/2017 at 5:56 PM, maturin said: This is just a diagram from Surprise Sim, but it shows that when your yards are braced up to 60 degrees, they are parallel to the wind at 45 degrees (the best any traditional sailing vessel can do). So the square sails would be shivering and providing no thrust, but they could easily be laid parallel to the wind. Hm, my bad, I recalled this wrong... The time when yards were limiting us was when we were sailing on engine... Even then we couldn't get exactly to the wind, as yards with rolled sails were providing too much drag. I believe they could be braced at approx. 50-60 degrees to the hull. I guess the real limitation is the wind pushing force of the hull, vs the pulling force of staysails. I don't remember exactly, however I think we could go at approx. 45 degrees to the wind the most on just staysails with the speed of 1-2 knots on GPS. Unfortunately I don't know what leeway we had. Here you can see her going on all sails as sharp as she can:https://goo.gl/dFYw4u Staysalis are quite efficient. La Grace had two jib sails on bowsprint which I think could create a nozzle effect. I think the nozzle effect's logic wasn't known at that time, however it was probably used Edited November 30, 2017 by vazco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, vazco said: nozzle effect's Like "amplified" Venturi effect by accelerating air from one jib across leeward side of the next jib? (Also look at F-104 engine bleed air over wing at low speed and 80%+ rpm) Lol, I can get quite excited by this stuff. 🤩 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vazco Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 When I think about it, two odd things are: 1) on large speeds you get huge rotation from sails, without limiting factor of the keel. This makes ship "drift", with turning speed sometimes faster than ship's speed forward. This should be possible only on small speeds 2) ship seems to start to turn when you start to turn your sails, not when sail is set to a certain position. You can test it by eg. starting to brace your yards, stopping, and then bracing them again. Turning force will be faster at the beginning and in the end, and slower when you're not bracing. It should be slow at first, and increase with time, based on a position of the sail, not on whether you brace or not. ( damn, it's hard to write about this without knowing english terms ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vazco Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, jodgi said: Like "amplified" Venturi effect by accelerating air from one jib across leeward side of the next jib? Exactly It's sometimes amazing how often people used effects that they (most likely) didn't fully understand, just by chance Edited November 30, 2017 by vazco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vazco Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) @jodgi I think I can excite you even more Look at Flettner effect There were a few ships using this effect. There are even a few right now https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotor_ship (sorry for off-topic) Edited November 30, 2017 by vazco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Just now, vazco said: Exactly It's sometimes amazing how often people used effects that they (most likely) didn't fully understand, just by chance The Norwegian Vikings had wool sails that were rough on the windward side and smooth on the leeward side to increase the effect that would be named many hundred years later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, vazco said: Look at Flettner effect Haha, super cool and super ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeRuyter Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, jodgi said: Haha, super cool and super ugly. Exactly - bleech! - Hey but if it saves fuel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeRuyter Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 26 minutes ago, vazco said: Here you can see her going on all sails as sharp as she can:https://goo.gl/dFYw4u Staysalis are quite efficient. La Grace had two jib sails on bowsprint which I think could create a nozzle effect. I think the nozzle effect's logic wasn't known at that time, however it was probably used Very beautiful brig there Vasco. Looks like musketry practice over the rail in the photo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, DeRuyter said: Exactly - bleech! - Hey but if it saves fuel... Purdy fuel economy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Airbus_A350-941_F-WWCF_MSN002_blended_winglet_ILA_Berlin_2016_08.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeRuyter Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 11 minutes ago, jodgi said: Purdy fuel economy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Airbus_A350-941_F-WWCF_MSN002_blended_winglet_ILA_Berlin_2016_08.jpg Every airliner I see has some kind of winglet these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain corn blower Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) I am a PVE server player and I have switched back to the US again it been almost a year . and I find that us ports don't have much I going for them not like down southern latitudes and I have not seen 1 LGV. No where to cap rade or sink and no larger 6th rate size ship fleets and what do I mean by that I mean like mercury .brig , pickle. Or navy brig .mercury . or even Cerberus, pickle . I have completely started the game over and have a blast in my niagara. But there's no comparable ships or fleet in open world US water Edited November 30, 2017 by Captain corn blower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 52 minutes ago, vazco said: As for rotation on small speeds - on lower speeds keel effect is lower, which should make rotation on sails easier. Yes, I read that correctly. It may well be the sudden acceleration that is odd. The same effect can be felt by suddenly depowering when all sails aback and a surge of acceleration is felt. vide in http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/steel/index.htm this specifically for different lengths on the same evolutions http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/steel/part9.htm#pg272 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raf Van Boom Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Are you guys ever going to complete this patch? How does it even work when you update half the ships, leave things broken and just move on to whatever else. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 They need to take into account the displacement of the ships. I find it's great that they make the sails more realistic but they have to take ship size, weight and general displacement into consideration as well.. Atm I can turn my buc and my bellona faster than I can my frigate. This makes little to no sense and should be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 9 hours ago, jodgi said: Like "amplified" Venturi effect by accelerating air from one jib across leeward side of the next jib? (Also look at F-104 engine bleed air over wing at low speed and 80%+ rpm) Lol, I can get quite excited by this stuff. 🤩 I think he's referencing what's usually called 'slot effect' in English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachy Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 On 11/30/2017 at 9:17 PM, Bearwall said: They need to take into account the displacement of the ships. I find it's great that they make the sails more realistic but they have to take ship size, weight and general displacement into consideration as well.. Atm I can turn my buc and my bellona faster than I can my frigate. This makes little to no sense and should be addressed. It will be when the rest of the ships get the upgrade. And 3rd rates especially were nearly as maneuverable as frigates. There wasn't a lot of difference in maneuverability.... it took ages for any ship to make a turn. It was also very unlikely for a frigate to engage a ship of the line in real life as well. Lineships needed to be more deadly to smaller ships and they are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Malachy said: It will be when the rest of the ships get the upgrade. And 3rd rates especially were nearly as maneuverable as frigates. There wasn't a lot of difference in maneuverability.... it took ages for any ship to make a turn. It was also very unlikely for a frigate to engage a ship of the line in real life as well. Lineships needed to be more deadly to smaller ships and they are now. 1vs1 a frigate was always going to come out short, but 2 or 3 vs 1 would almost certainly spell the demise for the SoL.. SoL were slower and a lot less manouverable than most frigs and this included the 3rd rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrago Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 @admin is this patch going to trickle down to the smaller ships soon? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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