Patch 11.0: New ships, Unity 5, Improved clan based conquest, and many other changes.

[Jeheil]

23 hours ago, admin said:

checked with the team again.. the limit on neutral ports can be removed - we will see if we can hack it in faster somehow

Thankyou for the consideration

[admin]

Update is being deployed today 21st Septemeber.

 

• Changed the icon for available for all ports (so they look less ugly)
• Removed hostility missions for ports that cannot gain hostility
• Hacked in the bigger limit for the number of neutral town port battles
• Improved bonuses for clan controlled ports
• Added new upgrade French Gunner
• Added new upgrade French Gunnery Sergeant
• Added blueprints for French gunners and french gunnery sergeant
• Several tunings to trading were done (improving chances to find profitable trades)
• Reduced the distance for hostility missions from the pier by 15%
• Fixed bug that limited national reinforcement zones by other cities
• Fixed bug that craft did not work if item was supposed to receive a Labor hour bonus
• Fixed bug that did not update craft info after teleport from outpost to outpost
• Fixed bug limiting stone production
• Fixed bug that did not let players exit the Available for All ports
• Fixed bug closing the missions near free towns immediately
• Fixed decals bug on Radeon video cards
• Fixed several other graphical bugs
• Other fixes and tunings
   

[Archaos]

18 hours ago, Bjerg Bjergsson said:

Mostly the time difference. Port battles typically happen during my work day or on the weekends when I'm busy (daytime here so I'm usually doing other things). I knew it was going to be the price for staying on EU server when Global went live but I also knew the pop wasn't going to be there on Global - and Combat Missions were still a thing back then so I still had ways of amusing myself. 

 

You say that you knew this was going to be the price of staying on the EU server, yet because of it you are now taking a break from the game. Why dont you give the Global server a try, if more people in your position came across to Global server then maybe the population would not be an issue.

[Archaos]

17 hours ago, admin said:

Busy merchants is a function of online as well. But again. Previous implementation was hello kittying stupid where we listened to solo hunters and increased weights 4 times so solo hunters can have more targets (because they wanted traders to haul more). That actually reduced online (but increased targets initially).

Its an ecology - more players = more targets. Focus must be on more players. Not on "please help solo hunters". If players come and enjoy there will be solo hunting. So all solo hunters who feedback here must run all their feedback through the following filter - will it make an average player enjoy the game more - not through the filter will i get more pvp.

 

Although I agree that busy merchants is a function of online numbers, I do think you could help it by creating more reasons for people to carry trade goods. I raised the following in the suggestion forum and I do believe it would do a lot to bring traders out into the OW and consequently give targets to solo hunters and reasons for traders to be defended.

 

[Archaos]

15 hours ago, admin said:

i think this is great. If you like trading you make money if you don't like trading you can finally make money by other means.

The issue I have with this is that you have now made it harder to make money trading with the tax on both ends of the trade. There were many items I used to make small profit on especially on return trade journeys that are no longer profitable. The other issue with it is that you need to do the calculation in advance to see what the profit is as although you can see the buy and sell price and this may show a profit, by the time you take tax into account it is a loss. The trader tool needs to show live prices and availability including the tax.

[shaeberle84]

40 minutes ago, Archaos said:

The issue I have with this is that you have now made it harder to make money trading with the tax on both ends of the trade. There were many items I used to make small profit on especially on return trade journeys that are no longer profitable. The other issue with it is that you need to do the calculation in advance to see what the profit is as although you can see the buy and sell price and this may show a profit, by the time you take tax into account it is a loss. The trader tool needs to show live prices and availability including the tax.

We should tax only one side (usually sales taxes only affect selling goods) or shift taxes completely to the production of goods.

[Jeheil]

I'm assuming the French Gunnery Sargent increases the range of your rear cannons for when you are running away.

Thanks for the prompt patch notes...and for the patch

Edited September 21, 2017 by Jeheil

[Archaos]

31 minutes ago, shaeberle84 said:

We should tax only one side (usually sales taxes only affect selling goods) or shift taxes completely to the production of goods.

I dont so much have an issue with both sides of the transaction being taxed as both the port owners need to make some income, but the issue is more that they introduced the tax without adjusting the prices so things that were profitable before are no longer profitable. 

If previously it was assumed that the game collected a 10% tax on each transaction and this was included in the price shown, then they should have reduced the prices of trade goods by 10% and that way with a nominal tax set by the owner of 10% we would have been back to where we were price wise before the patch. This way the prices could become more or less attractive depending on the tax rate set by the port owner. As it currently is the tax is just an additional cost that makes previously profitable trades unprofitable and generally reduces profit by at least 20%.

To use an example I could buy Assam Tea in one port for 133g and sell it in another for 156g making a profit of 23g per unit, and for a Trader Brig I could carry 626 units (with perk) thus giving me a profit of 14398g per run. Not an amazing profit but better than sailing back empty after doing a more profitable run. Now with 10% tax on each end my buy cost is 146.3g and sell cost is 140.4g leaving me with a loss of 5.9g per unit which is a total loss of 3693.4g for a trader Brig run. The bigger issue is that if you are not careful and do the math you think you are going to make a profit as the prices displayed are as given at the start of my example.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Archaos

[Siegfried]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Changed the icon for available for all ports (so they look less ugly)

Ummm I don't like this.

Is not very visible from a quick look when the nation have a light colour. (Maybe is only in my screen).

Do you thinking about a national colored asterisk or a normal grey exterior circle with faction coloured interior?

[Custard]

5 minutes ago, Siegfried said:

Ummm I don't like this.

Is not very visible from a quick look when the nation have a light colour. (Maybe is only in my screen).

Do you thinking about a national colored asterisk or a normal grey exterior circle with faction coloured interior?

I have a slight red/green colour deficiency and the new icon for the British nation is almost invisible to me on the Pirate ports because it is black it's no problem at all

[Fargo]

49 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Getting hired by multiple clans and working for them is a very good thing, what's wrong with it? You have 100% certainty that what you produce will be sold with profit. On the normal market no one might buy it, you can get outbidded or you have to wait long time for something to be sold, it's a gambling and never ending bidding/pricing war.

You still dont get the point. Look up the post i quoted redii, there i explained whats wrong with that. I get that you dont care about it, but atleast try to be objective, to understand that other people do. 

49 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Internal economy will always work better. Everything done for productio cost, free LH. Don't try to deny it. Also in my clan trading and crafting is a waste of time, we are warriors and fighters mostly. 

Thats not true, you still dont realise what a working market is. Free LH has no advantage, it doesnt matter for how much you exchange it, everyone is generating the same amount of labour with no quality differences. If you think around the cornor you would atleast profit from a larger general player base. Trading has nothing to do with trade ships, all you need to do is buy and sell smart not even leaving the capital. Thats actually fun compared with mindless trading from npc to npc.

49 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Yet again... if some players are trying to help newbies, new players and market and are willing to sell stuff cheap with much profit or even below profitable price, there dozens of assholes that will buy what you're selling and put for higher price again. Someone selling Iron Ore for 60 gold to help new players etc. and I buy it all and put again for sell for 100. 

Yet again you dont understand. Thinking that wellfare is helping anyone is very shortminded. When you knowingly sell lots of iron for 60, while people would buy it for more, what about other new players that try to sell iron for the market price of 100? Those assholes are simply acting rational. When you put easy profit on the market, you shouldnt blame anyone to make use of it. The best you can do for the market is setting contracts with the only goal to make profit, because then there is competition and prices actually can drop when there is enough supply.

49 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Yet again, another reason why I approach public market - it was done many times. With alts or smuggler, you send 1 player to enemy capital or other port, buy everything that is cheap and destroy it. 

Assume a working market without massive inflation. Stuff is cheap when either there is lots of supply/competition, or people dont need those items. If you buy cheap stuff, your doin people a favour that didnt expect their stuff to sell so fast. Then they realise that the market is empty and produce even more of those items. You basically raised prices by faking demand, on a high cost for you. Without massive inflation you would think about that a little longer.

49 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Tell me more about player-driven economy and public market. It's gambling, bidding and pricing war, full of assholes and saboteurs, lots of waiting must be included and the less players in nation, the less chance you will sell your goods.

Once again, thats how a broken economy looks like. It just looks like this, cause there is no competition. And people are not necessarily greedy, many just dont know what  they are selling/buying for, cause the game doesnt tell you.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Fargo

[NethrosDefectus]

2 hours ago, admin said:

Update is being deployed today 21st Septemeber.

 

• Changed the icon for available for all ports (so they look less ugly)
• Removed hostility missions for ports that cannot gain hostility
• Hacked in the bigger limit for the number of neutral town port battles
• Improved bonuses for clan controlled ports
• Added new upgrade French Gunner
• Added new upgrade French Gunnery Sergeant
• Added blueprints for French gunners and french gunnery sergeant
• Several tunings to trading were done (improving chances to find profitable trades)
• Reduced the distance for hostility missions from the pier by 15%
• Fixed bug that limited national reinforcement zones by other cities
• Fixed bug that craft did not work if item was supposed to receive a Labor hour bonus
• Fixed bug that did not update craft info after teleport from outpost to outpost
• Fixed bug limiting stone production
• Fixed bug that did not let players exit the Available for All ports
• Fixed bug closing the missions near free towns immediately
• Fixed decals bug on Radeon video cards
• Fixed several other graphical bugs
• Other fixes and tunings
   

I've noticed the French Gunnery Sergeants does not require a book, is this deliberate? I really hope it is not seeing as there are literally thousands of Diplome de L'ecole D'artillerie in the shops. These upgrades should remain difficult to obtain and upgrades are like they only thing left in the game that there is an economy for.  I hope this isn't yet another example of appeasing the casual players.

[Fargo]

4 hours ago, Mrgoldstein said:

Its just this, its all greed, people even try to sell ai cappped ships for 300k..come on..

You put ships up for a fair price it will sell in no time. I craft a ship for 300k for example ill add the tax 330 plus some profit so ill put it for 400k.. yet most people want max and put it up for 800-900k..ridiculous its not broken its greedy douchebags..

"Oh there is no iron for sale let me help the nation by putting it up for 600k a piece" 

Seriously, even those guys knowingly selling greedy do more for the nation/market than you do! If there is selling something for a high price, just put up your own contracts and undercut those guys!

Selling for a high price when there is no competition is not a problem at all, thats just rational. A problem are people that look at it, whine, and do nothing for whatever reasons. When people buy for high prices, you only are allowed to blame those guys. Its the buyer that defines a price, not the seller. The seller relies on people beein able to buy.

[NethrosDefectus]

Did we really need another penetration mod? We already have two lots of gunpowders that do it. Perhaps another Thickness mod would've been  a good idea but one one that didn't stack with Cartagena Caulking. It would just be an alternative

[Fargo]

@Peter Goldman Thats not player produced goods. Once again, assume a working market. Fixed npc prices and even production rates for most demanded goods are the problem here.

Im explaining it, once again youre just saying i know im right and this will happen. Your posts proof to me that you dont know what youre talking about. 

Im just pointing out the obvious, there is no way to do shipbuilding and business anymore in a way that is fun and interactive. And youre even suggesting to avoid the market. How can u tell in the next post economy isnt broken?! Sorry, but its impossible to discuss like this.

[Sea Fox]

Awesome awesome awesome!!!

[Fargo]

13 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

What's not fun and not interactive with making deals with players and clans? That's what a serious businessman would do. I don't tell people to avoid market, I tell them how brutal it is and how huge risk it brings. Inter-personal (private) contract is honored 99% of times. 

On the other hand, I agree about broken economy but for other reasons. Prices are not flexible as they should be. Even games from 2003 had better market models. All woods should be produced by players, not NPC (I wonder the same about rare resources for upgrades). 

Admin claims that everything is fine and working, so there is not much point arguing with him.

What is fun about crafting what other people tell you to craft, for prices that other people tell you to craft for, with materials other people organise?! No decisionmaking involved. Sure you can make wrong decisions on an open market, but exactly that makes it fun. Risk vs. reward is what keeps motivating, and enables you to learn and improve. Thats what a serious businessman would do.

Admin does not need to reason his claims, so we cant argue with him nevertheless.

[Malachy]

51 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

@Fargo Yes, like buying white oak and bermuda cedar and destroying it. Things that have the biggest demand, require sailing for 4-6 hours and are in short supply. Nation without them is weak. Buying a 1st rate for sell and destroying it makes also a favour for the nation? That ship could be used for RvR and even if a ship builder earnt 1-2m for that transaction, he can't produce massively 1st rates. He might be able to make one 1st rate every 3-4 days. If he raises the price, then even less people will be willing to buy it. 

You don't understand much about player-driven economy and public market @Fargo. I was part of it for months, I could observe what happens on it with 1500 players, what happens with internal clan economies, ship builders and traders, demand of different resources and supply (for example fine woods times), then 1000 players, 500 players, 200 players. I've made lots of conclusions about everything. You're desperately trying to deny the truth.

I can turn out 1 1st rate a day without labor contracts. 2 or more if I use those FYI

[Malachy]

9 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Because you have resources. I am talking about bringing materials to one port, the whole process of production line. For a lonely ship builder it takes about 2-4 days to organize and deliver everything.

Yeah, post wipe you basically have to have a support network. One other note: buying and destroying stuff in enemy markets is kind of a waste of time. Any successful clan has an internal economy and their battle ships never hit the market so your not hurting them, and those guys are the ones who fight the battles. The folks that buy ships and stuff from the market are the clanless and small clans that don't have the Ability to make those ships or harvest those resources. And for the most part, those guys aren't fighting the wars.

[Malachy]

I've yet to see a ship on the market that we can't build cheaper. I'll occasionally sell poorly built ships that I've captured for half cost just to get rid of the piece of garbage. That's usually what you see when your seeing a really cheap ship. And putting up a buy contract for less than production cost is normally a waste of gold. The amount of time you have to wait for a sucker to fill it and number of times you get taxed refreshing it usuallly eliminates all benefit. that practice is as bad as selling ridiculously high. The internal clan economy eliminates speculation and allows for a much more efficient process. Now that clans control ports and affect production, our closed economy is going to be even more efficient. 

The other benefit is I don't have to run around transportin goods. As a ship builder, all materials flow directly to me. If I'm low on something I mention to the person responsible for that item and I'll have 1000 of it in stock in a few minutes usually. There is no way the market can even come close to that level of efficiency.

 

just last night I ran short on three materials I needed for a bellona. In 10 minutes I had all three items. If I was playing the markets, I'd have had to sail to three different ports, waste an hour and a half of my time or more, and had to shuck out gold myself. The clan mate got his bellona, for free mind you, I got my materials, and the clan is 72 guns stronger. One or two missions a day per person generates all the capital we need to run our internal economy. Actually it looks like once we have a few more ports, revenue from tax in this will eventually run our clan economy without even having to grind anything.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Malachy

[Fargo]

2 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

1. If producing iron ore costs you 80g and someone sells it for 70g, of course you would buy it. Savings.

2. If ship is being sold for reasonable price, even clan members/officers/leaders will buy it. Why not?

Closing yourself inside a box with only clan-economy limits you.

See when all prices would become reasonable, you could buy everything from the market. Then you also could start to sell stuff you dont need. Instead of stacking everything to infinity, you would make profit instead that lets you buy from the market when you need to fill up your stacks. Nothing worse for you, but youre actually supporting the whole nation.

What is a reasonable price? Again thats relative. When your clan could sell ships for a certain price, materials sold for less labour value become reasonable priced. Same goes for materials, sub materials and resources. Then youre basically doin what im doin as a free shipbuilder. Buying for reasonable prices is everything if you want so, aiming for a good labour margin. This only requires you to know what youre selling and buying for.

 

 

[fox2run]

Never really understood economy much. But before I was able to build, sail and fight in my own ships. I used local materials only becourse of short distance and less time. 

I liked that.

Now it seems like a nightmare to do so...

 

[jodgi]

25 minutes ago, fox2run said:

Never really understood economy much. But before I was able to build, sail and fight in my own ships. I used local materials only becourse of short distance and less time. 

I liked that.

Now it seems like a nightmare to do so...

 

As far as ships go, it's never been easier than now. Ships and the great crafting system is completely eclipsed by upgrades, refits and rng loot and shop drops. We've had that in some form since release of OW, I wish we could change that and take fighting equipment out of the hands of the inconsiderate fat-cats. May they choke on their Russian sail duck and Cheshire Cheese!

Vive la révolution!

Edited September 21, 2017 by jodgi
schpellink

[Malachy]

7 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Stacking to infinity will be always more important than making a profit. There is no such thing as "surplus" for clans. History of this game has proven hundreds of times that hoarding and stacking is important. Remember when they changed silver and gold? Silver mines were in Pedro Cay and then all gone! British nation didn't have a single silver source but guess what... Some players collected 15-20k silver Same happened with compass wood. Before it was useless and people would destroy considering as garbage and suddenly... It became the new currency, just like combat marks. One of the most important resources for ship building. Guess what? Some players stockpilled thousands of it. Live oak logs as well after they got moved to Florida only. Same goes to dozens of other resources that values, importance and location has changed over time.

I would have to be an idiot listening to you and selling any "surplus" that I own.

Yeah no surplus. Every item is used somewhere. We've got 7 shipwrights servicing 37 members. There is never a surplus. Everything will be used eventually.

[Teutonic]

Good hotfix, Thanks for the continued prompt updates Admin.