Patch 11.0: New ships, Unity 5, Improved clan based conquest, and many other changes.

[Fargo]

10 hours ago, Quineloe said:

All of that is still a design decision. I did not qualify whether it was a good or bad one. But it's a design decision, like so many being made.

Fargo has been doing nothing but shit on game labs non stop, and I'm pretty tired of it by now. No constructive feedback, just BAD BAD BAD  BAD BAD

And as for the buy 1 price "exploit"; you people need to explain it in a lot more detail. You throw down two sentences and I can barely follow what you're explaining because you're skipping half of it.
I haven't done it myself, but I heard people explain it so I know there's a lot more to it than that.

Wrong, one dura is simply most plausible and realistic, while there isnt a single valid argument against it. The point is this game was defined as realistic. If you refuse realism, there have to be very good reasons for that, and in many cases there is. But in case of one dura there isnt a single reason.

With calling it "design decisions" you can justify everything, that ignorant and the opposite of beeing constructive. Im one of the few persons here that actually figures things out, instead of arguing with pure opinions or trying to just fight through my own believes not matter what. 

Edited September 15, 2017 by Fargo

[vazco]

btw, I don't agree that lack of resources was a main limit to PvP. It was a limit, however the main one was that other activities (mainly PvE) were more profitable, and that more or less even PvP was very risky. Right now first obstracle is still there. Second is limited, however there are still no incentives or mechanisms simplifying even and thus entertaining PvP, apart from port battles, which need to be planned long time in advance.

[Quineloe]

Just now, Fargo said:

Wrong, one dura is simply most plausible and realistic, while there isnt a single valid argument against it. The point is this game was defined as realistic. If you refuse realism, there has to be a very good reasons for that, and in many cases there is. But in case of one dura there isnt a single reason.

With calling it "design decisions" you can justify everything, that ignorant and the opposite of beeing constructive. Im one of the few persons here that actually figures things out, instead of arguing with pure opinions or trying to just fight through my own believes not matter what. 

You don't understand what "Design decision" actually means.

[Fargo]

Just now, Quineloe said:

You don't understand what "Design decision" actually means.

Youre good in avoiding reasoning and constructiveness. What do you think why there are no flying unicorns in the game? For the same reason there are no artificial durabilities.

[Hawkwood]

13 minutes ago, Fargo said:

Wrong, one dura is simply most plausible and realistic, while there isnt a single valid argument against it

If the ships have only 1 Durability, they should be cheaper, easier to make, or at least needed material costs should HAVE BEEN lowered earlier.

It makes no sense having expensive ships in game, and then everyone is wondering why PvP is rare.

[Teutonic]

I'm not sure about others but at least the group of players I have sailed with enjoy the game more with this patch than previously and instead of worrying about losing a ship and having to grind cash and resources for days, they now have the money to have the ability to get a new ship when they lose one without a fuss.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Teutonic

[Quineloe]

31 minutes ago, Fargo said:

Youre good in avoiding reasoning and constructiveness. What do you think why there are no flying unicorns in the game? For the same reason there are no artificial durabilities.

There's no reasoning possible when you go full on strawman argument with me.

no ship dura iz gud, ok? iz gud.

It would have been bloody nice if you had read the posts following the one you quoted, because we literally went over what you said already.

[Fargo]

7 minutes ago, Cortez said:

If the ships have only 1 Durability, they should be cheaper, easier to make, or at least needed material costs should HAVE BEEN lowered earlier.

It makes no sense having expensive ships in game, and then everyone is wondering why PvP is rare.

And whats the problem to just make ships cheaper, instead of increasing durabilities?! None, ship cost is not tied to durability. They changed durability, and at the same time they increased ship cost. It makes no sense to have super cheap ships either, thats why balancing is so important.

1 minute ago, Teutonic said:

I'm not sure about others but at least the group of players I have sailed with enjoy the game more with this patch than previously and instead of worrying about losing a ship and having to grind cash and resources for days, they now have the money to have the ability to get a new ship when they lose one without a fuss.

The point is, its not working for the game, no matter if we like it or not. 

4 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

There's no reasoning possible when you go full on strawman argument with me.

It would have been bloody nice if you had read the posts following the one you quoted, because we literally went over what you said already.

Im just asking for a simple explanation, and i dont see what following posts you mean. How are we supposed to make good decisions, if not based on reasoning that is based on the purpose/definition of the game?! 

[jodgi]

43 minutes ago, Cortez said:

It makes no sense having expensive ships in game, and then everyone is wondering why PvP is rare.

Hmm... You still think ships are expensive?

I've pushed the plate away because of super-rare upgrades and skill books that only big-time PVE grinders get.

It's a long time since we wondered why PvP is rare; OW is a PvE fest. Just look at all the remarks about how trivial it is to grind money now. People don't even blink at the idea of serial grinding bots. 

[Hawkwood]

Just now, jodgi said:

Hmm... You still think ships are expensive?

I've pushed the plate away because of super-rare upgrades and skill books that only big-time PVE grinders get.

It's a long time since we wondered why PvP is rare; OW is a PvE fest. Just look at all the remarks about how trivial it is to grind money now. People don't even blink at the idea of serial grinding bots. 

It is easy, easier NOW. Last week it was not. And there is still a problem having enough FREE TIME in real life which this game requires sailing around and gathering resources.

[Captain corn blower]

4 hours ago, admin said:

shot log and sound log is getting disabled next week

 

 

ah

npc carry medium (i meant pvp of course). you can steal best ships in pvp (with rare upgrades)

What about PVE. 

[Liq]

1 minute ago, jodgi said:

Hmm... You still think ships are expensive?

I've pushed the plate away because of super-rare upgrades and skill books that only big-time PVE grinders get.

It's a long time since we wondered why PvP is rare; OW is a PvE fest. Just look at all the remarks about how trivial it is to grind money now. People don't even blink at the idea of serial grinding bots. 

This - 5th rates were already relatively cheap to craft pre this patch. Pre the big first wipe we saw that even though players had dozens of millions worth of assetes, they were not willing to risk them at anything equal-ish of a battle.

I also find it funny admin gave me a bashing because of some inflation comments I made, saying I wanted ships to become more affordable so ppl are not afraid of losing them - When I said multiple times that they were already cheap to make. Putting words into someone else's mouth is not funny.

[jodgi]

2 minutes ago, Cortez said:

It is easy, easier NOW. Last week it was not. And there is still a problem having enough FREE TIME in real life which this game requires sailing around and gathering resources.

One to two hours a week should set you up nicely with resources. Some hauling we have to deal with. Don't forget they made some ships available from the admiralty; Medium amount of bot grinding can be exchanged into a build of your free choosing.

1 minute ago, Captain corn blower said:

What about PVE. 

I'm biting my lip so hello kittying hard right now.

[Hawkwood]

15 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Hmm... You still think ships are expensive?

I've pushed the plate away because of super-rare upgrades and skill books that only big-time PVE grinders get.

It's a long time since we wondered why PvP is rare; OW is a PvE fest. Just look at all the remarks about how trivial it is to grind money now. People don't even blink at the idea of serial grinding bots. 

Lack of PvP is not the only problem with this game.... There are many others, but the biggest one is to log in, and actually you are bored, speaking of PvE content.

[Captain corn blower]

It would be nice if we got papers to be able to move your ship yard and main base since the map change some of us have placed are main ship yards and base in areas we run ops out of now thoughs areas are screws up we should be able to move are level 3 ship yards and not distroy and start over again .we never put them in locations they are in if we would have known that this big of a map change would have happened.

[shaeberle84]

9 hours ago, admin said:

Prices for certain goods will go up until it becomes profitable to make them and sell them. 
Also you can get EVERYTHING for free by capturing from the enemy. 

We do not care about profits. Money is plentifull now. You guys go from one extreme to another.

I want to supply my nation with good cannons, that is my goal. But I cannot, because the economy - at least the open market outside clan business - is ruined once more.

Edited September 15, 2017 by shaeberle84

[Captain corn blower]

All I can say the pricing and profit margin is terrible now in PVE.  the materials that brought good profit are very scarces .I am a trader and is all but dead now 

[jodgi]

6 minutes ago, shaeberle84 said:

I want to supply my nation with good cannons, that is my goal. But I cannot, because the economy - at least the open market outside clan business - is ruined once more.

Ruined is a strong word, but I agree. I have a shop in CS and have been supplying (in my head) startup players with very cheap guns making a small but steady profit. It's been mostly me and Cornelis Tromp who has supplied randoms with guns. Now with the slashed building output I can't meet the demand nor make a small living. I've had to up the prices to compensate for the reduced volume, not the end of the world but a bit sad for "Righteous Knight of the newbies".

I look at it as an unintended side effect of the recent changes.

Poor new guys, solo players and would-be PvP'ers. Get with the bot grinding program or GTFO.

[Skully]

With an infinite supply at 3x base price, the prices are established.

Market price will be just below the capped price. Everybody can start producing and sell just below EU. Buyers have no option but to bid EU.

For crafted materials add the compound cost & tax, and voila

It's like doing PvP with expensive ships, now we do economy with expensive commodities.

And since we have a money tap on PvE now, everyone can afford it as well.

Go forth and buy my Hull Repairs, currently on discount for just 3750 / p. 

[Fargo]

12 hours ago, admin said:

Player driven economies don't exist in games with floating online because they only work if the online is sufficient (eve online. But even in eve economy is supported by hidden hand. In real life you cannot withdraw and has to work or do something to support life. In games you can just quit and uninstall. As a result if you cannot progress you quit the game, reducing player driven economy ability to work even further. 

Increased money supply is a calculated decision and supports average players. Inflation is not an issue at all and trying to address by austerity patch in may it based on feedback of "some" players was a huge mistake, that dropped ratings by 20% (huge inflation 70%/austerity - 50%) and reduced the sales.

TLDR. Economy must work when the online is 1, and it does now.

Then support the economy, im not arguing against emergency mechanisms like european traders. But other than that fixed npc prices are either useless or messing up demand and supply by definiton. Competition relies on numbers, the number of contracts. Beeing able to selfsupply is a big problem for competition, and the general number of contracts/players can easily be increased. A proper tax system not promoting bypassing of the market would help too. I see thats very difficult, by then atleast dont increase those simple auctionhouse fees even further...

Calculated based on what? I dont get how you can be so ignorant. Inflation crashed your game once, and its about to do it again. Someone recommended it already and i can just say the same. If you dont give a hellokitty about economy, get rid of it all together with crafting. The question then is whats the purpose of having an open world. 

What patch was that, the wipe? You cant just blame single changes while you changed multiple things at once. I saw players leave after you made upgrades and books impossible to get, an issue that did not get addressed until today?! What about rewarding PvP. The only issue with that is that stupid upgrades are more valuable than actual ships, so its worth to sacrifice a ship for a possible upgrade. This is nonesense, and its highly likely that ship cost isnt the problem here.

Arent we developing a game anymore aiming for 2k+ players per server? How shall we ever get to 2k players and hold those if it is not designed to work for those numbers?! Take the NPC generated woods. Even if you manage to balance them, as soon as population changes, its imbalanced again. 

13 hours ago, admin said:

The fact that some players buy iron at 400 does not inflate prices for the solo player because he can always mine it at 60. 

No, but it affects all palyers when the market dies. Well i guess then you can just continue to mine youre iron. Youre missing the whole point here. Its not about somehow supplying everyone, its about an economy that is fun and gives you possibilities. This applies to anything by the way. If you would actually focus on that you wouldnt have to worry about youre "ratings".

[Fargo]

28 minutes ago, Skully said:

With an infinite supply at 3x base price, the prices are established.

Market price will be just below the capped price. Everybody can start producing and sell just below EU. Buyers have no option but to bid EU.

For crafted materials add the compound cost & tax, and voila

Can you figure out labour values again? Would be fun to see how far it goes, we could make bets about it

[admin]

1 hour ago, shaeberle84 said:

Money is plentifull now. You guys go from one extreme to another.

 

I would like to point to these numbers again

We did not go from one extreme from another. It just feels like that. 
Pre may24th austerity patch (when all money supply was cut). The reward for sinking HMS victory was approximately 400k. After wipe patch it was 50k, now its 175k. 

That is no extreme. We still have 1 durability, and the money supply is somewhere in between 2016 levels and May austerity patch.

[admin]

12 minutes ago, Fargo said:

 

Calculated based on what? I dont get how you can be so ignorant. Inflation crashed your game once, and its about to do it again. Someone recommended it already and i can just say the same. If you dont give a hellokitty about economy, get rid of it all together with crafting. The question then is whats the purpose of having an open world. 

Inflation did not crash the game. Bullshit statement. And it won't crash it now. because its a game and you don't see half of the systems.

Rewards were 2.5 higher in 2016 than there are now and there were multiple durability ships. Ratings were higher (70%) and dropped to 50 after inflation cutting patch. I honestly i don't give a **** about anything else except about making the main audience happy. So if players want money and easier access to ships so be it. Its still 2.5X below old levels. 

[Quineloe]

today many ships were destroyed in PVP EU in large scale RVR battles. I haven't seen that sort of fighting since early Summer 2016 (outside of small battles). Apparently players are willing to risk stuff again.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Quineloe

[admin]

1 minute ago, Quineloe said:

today many ships were destroyed in PVP EU in large scale RVR battles. I haven't seen that sort of fighting since early Summer 2016 (outside of small battles). Apparently players are willing to risk stuff again.

now we need to increase iron supply a bit and maybe add more options for ships-for-combat marks.