Repair timers need attention

[Koltes]

I think repairs as consumables are great. They work brilliantly with the weight of the ship. Unfortunately with multiple repairs battles start being very arcady. People just wait for the timer, repair, reengage thus simply increasing battle time. Also some ships being badly damaged can repair number of times and escape. I think amount of damage repaired is good, but multiple repairs needs to be removed. When we had only 1 repair, battles where fought a lot more careful. Captains were lot more thoughtful when to flip the repair etc. If you made a mistake it will cost you. Battles were fought quicker.
Also whats up with repairing Crew multiple times by poring the Rum on them? Onc Crew repair is more than enough.

So the proposal is:

- Remove repair timer so you can repair both sails and hull at the same time. Since each repair requires more crew they don't have to wait for each other to finish the job
- Only give 1 repair in a battle per Hull, Sails and Crew
- Everything else is the same (same number of repairs required per repair, kits weight the same etc etc)
- In OW you can still repair fully like it is now.

Lets discuss. Thank you

Edited July 22, 2017 by koltes

[Iroquois Confederacy]

I'm not averse to the quantity of repairs, but I think they should be slower.  10 minutes is probably fine on unrated vessels, but 15 minutes for frigates and 20 for lineships.  This to compensate for their respective increased survivability.

[Slamz]

I like it the way it is because I feel it allows for more depth of strategy. Rather than get hurt and having to simply withdraw and be done, there's a possibility of repair. And the decision point of armor vs sails can be interesting. It does lead to more escapes but in a world of 1 durability ships I think that's actually fine. Not every fight has to result in someone going down (or in all people on one side going down). Weight of extra repairs vs speed is also an interesting consideration.

The only think I might consider adding would be the old Star Wars Galaxies concept of "black bar damage" -- basically a certain amount of the damage you take cannot be healed while in battle. Like in a usual RPG, health goes down, heals take it up, health goes down, heals take it up, potentially forever but in SWG the "black bar" would slowly start taking over your stats -- unhealable damage. You had to be entirely out of combat to fix it.

Of course SWG did it to try and force a social aspect to the game but I could also see something like that allowing multiple repairs while still reflecting that yes, you have taken some damage and that is not going away no matter how many hasty repairs you slap on it in here. A hastily repaired armor planking should not be 100% "good as new". Repairing it twice and three times and four times should limit how good it can be. At some point you need better repairs -- either in dock or at least out at sea.

[derekticus]

I think the current system is good.  No need to gives koltes any more advantages in his gank attempts.

[Guest]

I'm not completely against someone having multiple, however I think people are able to repair too quickly at the moment. I like the suggestion of 10/15/20 minute increments for the different ship groups (7th-6th/5th-4th/3rd-1st).

Right now a 1v2 or 1v3 is nearly impossible, because the damaged ships can drop back and repair, while the solo person is forced to always fight a healthy ship. This happened to me yesterday (1v3) in nearly even ships, and it meant unless I could force them to use up all their repairs, there would be no way for me to win.

[Alado]

I think the current system its ridiculous, ilimeted repairs............., previus wype its ok, only one repair to hull and another to sails, and you can do a strategy, but now its patethic and combats bored, you waste time agains a ship with many repairs and rum. I will never understand why mechanics that work are changed

[Pelennor]

10mins cooldown is way too short.

I agree with Koltes's propositions.

[Cimbi]

Well, Devs should decide what kind of game they want to make?They would like to make a   hardcore, realistic, and beautifully detailed naval combat sandbox or they try to make a fantasy, RPG sailing game. I think they are advertising their game realistic, and beautifully detailed naval combat sandbox so I would expect   1 hull and 1 rig repair maximum and zero crew repair.Off course If they changed their minds and develop an XP grind, hello kitty fantasy RPGs.Well, in this case, I think the current system is perfect.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Cimbi

[Vizzini]

Would anybody benefit from knowing how many repairs the enemy can make in an engagement ? Or how many they could be carrying  ? I'd have thought the amount of repairs should relate to the amount of crew but I am no expert for sure. Unlimited rum sounds bad

 

Not every battle should be 3 mins long , at least mine don't last much longer, but I am trying

[Celtiberofrog]

Totaly agreed with Cimbi:

Rum: I wish crew should not be as easily repaired. Crew loss is a drastic issue that captains had to face. Any future modification that could significantly decrease this mechanic would be welcome. in Battle the only way to somehow offset your crew losses should be after a successful boarding where defeated crews could be purchased (the former Perk was good).

You need new crew ? go back to ports.

You lost most crew in battle, you likely loose your ship.  

Edited July 22, 2017 by Celtiberofrog

[Liq]

I kinda agree with OP. Had several battles where I was (most likely) facing fir-fir ships, and as soon as it got hairy for them (because they're that weak of a build) they would just start running, as rigging can be repaired every 10 minutes.. You can even take off the midmast section of a ship with not that much of a meaning for the battle.. just use some special NA Glue and your masts will look fine again in no time.

[Koltes]

Longer times also dont work. It almost denies one repair or the other. Don't know how realistic it also is. If you send 30 crew to repair sails and 50 crew to repair hull so all 80 is working why do they have to wait for each other aka timer between repairs?
Just make 1 per each repair in battle and thats it. Battles wont last 3 min like suggested above. They surely will be longer, like they were before the patch, but they sure is hell wont become 5 times longer just because they run and repair, run and repair all the time and you keep killing crew and they kill repairing it. The amount of rum used they all should be dead drunk lol

[Skully]

koltes and myself had a run in when he got hit by a GB patrol fleet close to KPR.

The part I did not like was close to the end. We were chasing his Surprise with 3 similar ships and could just alternate positions by repairing and taking point.

This actually went on for some time while the armor of the Surprise was steadily taken off.

Having just 1 repair for each class makes the decision moment more important and takes away a 3 ship alternating point tactic. Such a tactic is impossible to counter.

I did ask you to surrender, but you wanted to go down with the ship. 

[greybuscat]

I agree with OP. One repair per battle makes sense to me. In-battle mast replacements I've been against since Sea Trials. Obviously, in the open world, you should be able to make more careful repairs.

On the other hand, the sidebar anti-rum discussion is silly. It's abstracting wounded sailors who can recover if treated, but otherwise will die of their injuries, not reviving the dead with booze. If Rum goes out the window, we should get some percentage of incapacitated crew back after surviving a battle. Even worse, getting rid of the "manage crew" button would make the game extremely tedious for anyone not grinding missions right outside a friendly port. It's a terrible idea.

[Fargo]

I would remove all repairs from the battle inctance. Since we have repairs its a very simple system that gets abused. Invulnerability while sailing with 0 hull until you repair. Imbalanced repair mods. Run and repair tactics now.... Like OP says, when you beat a fast ship, he simply turns away and repairs sails. He can even keep you in battle for 10 mins to repair hull again. When you simply increase the timers, such fights would last even longer. I recently watched a PB stream and the amount of armour ships are able to repair with mods is still ridiculous. I guess repair mods still increase total percentages. While many are complaining about the actual speed meta, note that the actual repair system increases the importance of speed by alot.

If repairs, then with a serious drawback. Make repairs only possible in battle sails e.g., many problems would be solved. Also repair mods should not relate to the total HP. When 25% is default, a +10% mod should make it 27,5%, not 35%. Also repairs should not be able to repair anything back to 100%. Repairs in battle were alway improvisations not able to reach the original quality. It could be capped at 90% for example.

It would make sense to regenerate a small amount of crew and cannons over time, but not simply back to 100% via hull repair or "repair crew" button.

[Koltes]

28 minutes ago, Fargo said:

I would remove all repairs from the battle inctance. Since we have repairs its a very simple system that gets abused. Invulnerability while sailing with 0 hull until you repair. Imbalanced repair mods. Run and repair tactics now.... Like OP says, when you beat a fast ship, he simply turns away and repairs sails. He can even keep you in battle for 10 mins to repair hull again. When you simply increase the timers, such fights would last even longer. I recently watched a PB stream and the amount of armour ships are able to repair with mods is still ridiculous. I guess repair mods still increase total percentages. While many are complaining about the actual speed meta, note that the actual repair system increases the importance of speed by alot.

If repairs, then with a serious drawback. Make repairs only possible in battle sails e.g., many problems would be solved. Also repair mods should not relate to the total HP. When 25% is default, a +10% mod should make it 27,5%, not 35%. Also repairs should not be able to repair anything back to 100%. Repairs in battle were alway improvisations not able to reach the original quality. It could be capped at 90% for example.

It would make sense to regenerate a small amount of crew and cannons over time, but not simply back to 100% via hull repair or "repair crew" button.

Lime everything apart from the comment that there should be no repairs at all in the battle instance. Still think 1 repair per type was a good tactical compromise 

[Batman]

Unlimited repairs don't punish you if you make mistakes. Lost 200 crew to a good sternrake? Nvm, let me consume my rum to fix broken sailors!

in the same way it does not reward you for playing good. Killed 200 men with a good sternrake? Nvm, enemy just consumes his rum to fix broken sailors!

Brought down a mast after a couple of minutes? Nvm, I have spare masts that I can attach mid battle! And don't bother sniping more masts, because I have more spare masts (and sails!) lying in my hold!

Edited July 22, 2017 by Batman

[Koltes]

10 minutes ago, Rickard said:

I disagree, the current system is fine! the ability of a player to repair should not depend on imaginary rules/limits but on player choice and capacity, the number of repairs you bring to a fight should dictate how much you can repair. however, I do think that the timers should be slightly longer. 

I shred his sails and get in close. I decrew the guy from 350 to 200 crew. Preparing for boarding . He hits sail repairs and crew repairs. Starts running away. While I'm chasing him he is all up and shine again fully restored. Takes few reloads to shred his sails again and catch up with him. I go about his stern and decrew him again. By this time his is ready to repeat the process.
And it goes on and on. Is that not a problem? Longer times will just make fights longer. People will kite you longer until timer is run off and they can repair and commit to fighting again.
Why not have 1 repair per type? If you are loosing the fight you will lose anyway. With 1 repair or 100. Its just makes it lot more dynamic.

[Tiedemann]

I do not like the current repair system, I prefer the old system. But if "everybody" loves multiple repairs and it's here to stay, please give different cool-down times for the different ship classes in game.

Small ships( 7. - 6. rate) keep the current 10 min,  medium ( 5. - 4. rate) gets 15 min and large ( 3. - 1. rate ) get 20 min. 

And I think RUM needs to have it's weight increased. It should be more penalty involved when sailing around with so much rum, considering the upside it brings. 

[Lonar]

I dont like the new system but the old wasnt great either maybe something in between like you have 30 repairs of every kind in battle and then you can choose if you want to spend them all at once or piece by piece, like 5 now 10 after that and then 5 again and 10 again and then you are empty.

[Scout]

I like the system in play.

But the repairs are if anything to light might be 2x or 3x what the are now in weight. 

[Quineloe]

I think it's frankly absurd that it's cheaper to repair in battle than it is to repair on the open world. Fully repairing a 4k armor ship's broadside is... 40 hull repairs.

Repairing three times in battle will achieve the same result for only 30.

It should be *far* cheaper to repair a ship outside of battle. This would greatly reduce the need to dock and repair after every port

 

I also think repair kits are far too expensive right now.  5k to repair a fifth rate once? That's really a lot of money that's being removed from the game just for repairing something you already have

[Koltes]

Then repairs should have 20 mins individual cooldown and hull/rigs not linked together.

This way it would work the best as compromise between the two

Edited July 23, 2017 by koltes

[Cecil Selous]

The thing is that in an extreme case you can repair your ship to a point where it is almost as good as a shiny new one.

Lets say you lose a mast. It shouldn't be possible to replace it with an exact copy of the old one which has the same performance like the original mast. It should be a workaround which helps to stay at least somehow maneuverable to not lay completely dead in the water. The same goes for hull repairs. You patch some holes in the heat of the battle as good as you can but the hull shouldn't be as resistent as it was before. And you should only be able to do it once or at least with an increased timer.

Edited July 23, 2017 by Cecil Selous

[Slamz]

15 hours ago, Skully said:

Such a tactic is impossible to counter.

How much effort was he putting into keeping up with the wounded?

Finishing off wounded people is just part of the meta. (So is running them out of repairs and balancing number carried vs weight based slowdown.)