Patch 10.2 - Changes to mission, crafting, ROE and other fixes

[jodgi]

39 minutes ago, Lonar said:

about revenge fleet well you got your 3 min timer wich makes it very unlikly your target gets help a little risk must still be there

A little risk is fine. Risk in proportion to how close to other enemies you're hunting is also good, all the way up max risk level 10.

Revenge fleets that can use the OW compression to teleport across absurd distances in relation to the instanced fight is risk turned up to 11.

 

[Captain corn blower]

2 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Actually not true. 

Admiral Edward Pellew, would run down trade ships in THE HMS Indefatigable.  He captured 9 trade ships in 10 days in one sortie.   

 

That's all!!

[PG Monkey]

When your in the battle..the fleet waiting outside has 100% invisibilty

 

[Sureshot]

Because of the 2 different instances open world and battle revenge fleets exist. Now it is a problem because of player behavior taking advantage of the game design but that does not mean it should be ignored.

Advantages of being a revenge fleet

1. 100% invisibility at enemy battle location, you cannot be seen  
2. You can completely surround enemy from all wind angles, they can't escape
3. You can keep 2-3 ships outside every time you tag to make sure that if enemy escapes instance, you can tag again. Repeat as many times as needed until you catch up or enemy runs out of real life hours and surrenders
4. When the enemy fleet is in battle, you have all the time in the world to teleport from another region and sail from port straight to the enemy's location

So revenge fleets have all this handed to them, absolutely no need to worry about enemy escaping. 

And then the "wolves" we will call them I guess? I would just like to call them "PvP players" have to sail to enemy waters take a large risk of being ganked, find a suitable target then catch them hoping they are not too close to forts. 

Both sides have wolves, so I guess if for instance

 Nation A has 5 players go to Nation B's waters to hunt for PvP

 Nation B has 5 players go to nation A's waters to hunt for PvP but they also send a revenge fleet from their capital against nation A. Nation A does  not have enough players to send a revenge fleet to their own waters.

Right now revenge fleets have it way to easy, they have to give minimal effort for huge rewards while the "wolves" have to give a much larger effort to get any reward at all.

Edited June 13, 2017 by SeaHyena

[PG Monkey]

If we saw the home defence fleet coming (they were nowhere to be seen when the battle started).we might escape the battle and leave.but we cant so we dont. Must be our fault for sailing where the enemy are.

[admin]

41 minutes ago, PG Monkey said:

When your in the battle..the fleet waiting outside has 100% invisibilty

 

but they are also 100% vulnerable. They are in OW..

[Sir Texas Sir]

2 hours ago, Fellvred said:

Perhaps you can look at making 6th/7th rates cheaper (and easier) to build, maybe not needing shipyards etc? 

I think if they drop furnishings from 6/7th rates would help this.  It killed me making Mercs for the port battle yesterday that I flat out had to only make Navy Brigs for clan mates.   Cause it didn't take them.  It was odd cause that is suppose to be an upgrade ship.  They should reserve furnishings for the larger 5th rates and above.   

[jodgi]

4 minutes ago, admin said:

but they are also 100% vulnerable. They are in OW..

It brings people out for pvp, no question about it.

But is it good or bad for the overall game and long term pvp health?

I remember how it was after santi owners were let out into the OW. How long did it take for everything to devolve into passive and reactive play with long timers? Everone (with a clue) never daring to initiate a fight because of potential hidden reinforcements.

It is most likely to see the same result with a larger playerbase and revenge-ganks. It may take longer and we may get blessed with a larger quantity of temporarily clueless players, but people will learn that initiating a fight is a bad idea and camping ongoing fights is a much better idea.

People will protest no matter what we do, but do we enable people to go out and take initiative, or do we punish initiative so hard we risk losing it?

Two scenarios:

1. "Waaah! I might quit the game because I was ganked!"

    "There, there... Next time you go out and gank someone."

 

2. "Waah! I might quit the game because I was killed by a camping revenge fleet!"

    "There, there... Next time don't be foolish and start a fight in enemy territory, instead wait until they start a fight, use the ample time to collect your friends and kill them as they try to get away."

[Captain corn blower]

1 hour ago, Hodo said:

They were probably row boats  

 

That's all!!

[Sir Texas Sir]

I keep hearing all these complaints about to many revenge fleets and such.  Any one think maybe you have to many players over there and need to thin that server out a bit?   It's not a big problem on GLOBAL as far as I can tell.  The only time you face with a big fleet is when your at a capital and that is expected.

[TommyShelby]

21 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I keep hearing all these complaints about to many revenge fleets and such.  Any one think maybe you have to many players over there and need to thin that server out a bit?   It's not a big problem on GLOBAL as far as I can tell.  The only time you face with a big fleet is when your at a capital and that is expected.

lol... 

Why not just address the issue now instead of waiting till release where there might be 2k players on both servers (Optimistic, i know)? It will only get worse the more people are online

[Quineloe]

10 hours ago, Lonar said:

 

Only with the slight Problem that you will face in 90% of cases a Suprise and iam not shure if the handful cannons are worth the speedloss in that case :/

And i like that you can carry cannons i always wanted hyprid ships.

The reduced reinforcment timer will hurt the defender big time in gustavia we have already problems to reach some trader in 5min and help him ...

 

Help your traders by sailing with them from their resource port to Gustavia, not by sitting in Gustavia and panic-undocking when they get attacked.

[Farrago]

5 hours ago, Kaos said:

Quality pvp and challenging opponents are 1000x more fun than farming countless of sheep who don't even know or play this game for pvp. 100 sheep kills will not make up for one good fight against another wolf imo but maybe it will take another 12 months to reach this discovery.

So true. Unfortunately there is a small minority who never will subscribe to this belief. Otherwise exploits, ALTS, gankfests, baby seal clubbing, etc would never be an issue. Some get their enjoyment from just possessing specially outfitted ships or knowledge perks. They want the kill and the riches no matter how they get them. (I guess we're lucky they are occupied with video games rather than out harming society.) Anyway, it's just such individuals why society has laws and the game will need restrictions.

[Bubba Smith]

Looks really good. 

 

[Koltes]

11 hours ago, rediii said:

You would like to be without

say no to safe ganking around capitals

say no to safe warp technology with defense tags and outlaw battles

 

I agree. These guys are pushing very hard for their own and only style gameplay.

Life experience:

I went to Cartagena hunting GB traders. After sinking one I got chased by group of defenderes. They used hunting wolf pack interception tactics gradually putting into a bad wind. Defensive tag and 5 mins later I'm back to OW. Barely slipped away from another pack of reinforcements arrived (your so called the gank fleet) and the chase continued. This was thrilling. This gave me adrenalin rush I haven't had for a long time. Oh, Yes please!

 

Another life experience:

Frenchies clan came to Mort and hunted our traders. Defensice tags were helping little as they had buddies outside waiting (your so called revenge fleet in enemy waters). We had this issue going on for few days until we decided that enough is enough and we need to address this problem. We came. We saw. We sunk them. Few times. Mort is clear. For now.

Point is its fair on all sides. I bet ya, these "vocals" are not happy with 3 min join timer they will push until its 2. Then push further until its their way and then they quit...

 

Edited June 14, 2017 by koltes

[King of Crowns]

do these new missions generate hostility? if so this is a terrible idea. the current hostility system will work great once all the uncontested ports are gobbled up because it will give the pvp gankers a shot at the RVR crowd. also be careful because missions mean less time in open world looking for ai targets.

The balance you have to find is the balance between offense and defense with your rules of engagement. you don't want it to be impossible for hunters/gankers but you do want it to be almost suicidal to attack out side the capital. 5mins was a good balance I felt.

Also the pvp mark store is a bit lacking. seems like this patch made it a bit more lacking by making some of those rewards available through pve. perhaps a lil more focus on pvp mark store. I have 130 and nothing to spend it on. how about wappen or Cecilia. for a retarded pvp mark price. like 500 pvp marks for Cecilia permit. just saying the pvp mark system needs a long term goal.

All in all the patch looks okay. just don't take it to much farther towards the care bear side. things are not bad, people are enjoying the game. for the first time since steam release the game is holding its player base and not bleeding out players. so your in the right area.

 

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

do these new missions generate hostility? if so this is a terrible idea. the current hostility system will work great once all the uncontested ports are gobbled up because it will give the pvp gankers a shot at the RVR crowd. also be careful because missions mean less time in open world looking for ai targets. I was wondering about the hostility and the missions.  If attackers can't take them and defenders can it will give them an edge to drop hostility over us trying to grind them up. 

The balance you have to find is the balance between offense and defense with your rules of engagement. you don't want it to be impossible for hunters/gankers but you do want it to be almost suicidal to attack out side the capital. 5mins was a good balance I felt. I felt the same even chasing after ya'll when you where hunting in our waters and when we been chased out of KPR by a billion Basic Cuttters.   I never really felt it was to much of a gank fest on either side. If I didn't want tons of ships to join I shouldn't been in those waters in the first place.

Also the pvp mark store is a bit lacking. seems like this patch made it a bit more lacking by making some of those rewards available through pve. perhaps a lil more focus on pvp mark store. I have 130 and nothing to spend it on. how about wappen or Cecilia. for a retarded pvp mark price. like 500 pvp marks for Cecilia permit. just saying the pvp mark system needs a long term goal.  I still want to know why the Rattler, H. Rattler, Niagara and Ingermanland where removed when they don't have the other things like Prem store, some special missions or what not in game yet.  We are now short several ships and I bet we won't see the Wappen any time soon and only two SC (if we even get any on Global) from the contest right now.  

All in all the patch looks okay. just don't take it to much farther towards the care bear side. things are not bad, people are enjoying the game. for the first time since steam release the game is holding its player base and not bleeding out players. so your in the right area.

Have to agree...

Ok I haven't done any PvP since patch, but the mast thing is way to much as we have been testing out and can't demast a freaking cutter in a Rennom until like tons of shots.   If your going to make them this hard you need to take repairs back to 15 mins cause all folks are going to do is when your mast starts to get weak is pop the repair.

[TommyShelby]

Look, i know its hard for you guys to understand the whole "Revenge fleet" stuff since this the first time in a long long time there has been potential for it to be an issue. 

But some of us were around the last time it was an actual issue. Where your only option was to log off, or face a revenge fleet. Where we tested in combination with both 1 minute invisibility and 2 minute invisibility. 
We had less players back then than you have on the Global server now, yet it became a huge issue.. As soon as people start figuring out how to place themselves on the OW to be 100% sure of catching whoever exits that battle it is going to be absolute hell. The only way to escape those "revenge fleets" will be if the "revenge fleets" make some huge mistakes. 

As for the timer, 3 minutes. I will push for 2 minutes no matter what. 
2 minutes is where you hit the "what you see is what you get RoE" that is good. 
Once more, i know its hard for some of you to understand since maybe you weren't here when longer timers were tested (Before EA). But as soon as people start to understand how to take advantage of it, it will once again become a big issue. And there is no doubt here, back then even with 100-150 people online it was an issue so how you can possibly argue that it wont be an issue is something i simply cannot comprehend.. 

I'll also argue that 2 minute timer + modified version of signalling perk (allowing defenders to get up to 1,25 or so in BR) is the best compromise we will ever get. 

Koltes, the whole: "These guys just want the game to fit their playstyle" is the worst argument you can possibly come up with. I can say the exact same about you so lets not do that yeah?

Edit: 
Oh, i'd also like to add the following about current RoE. 
On the very first day of the patch i was "griefed" by a basic cutter for almost 3 hours straight. He couldn't catch my trader brig in battle but he could catch in OW, guess what? 
Every time i exited battle he would retag me
Now you might say; "Oh this is only issue because OW Speed is weird". But no... Several people have even wrote comments about it in other topics about how they have been griefed for many hours because of this mechanic. Hell, it was a big issue last time we tested this shit as well. 
 

Edited June 13, 2017 by TommyShelby

[Quineloe]

3 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Ok I haven't done any PvP since patch, but the mast thing is way to much as we have been testing out and can't demast a freaking cutter in a Rennom until like tons of shots.   If your going to make them this hard you need to take repairs back to 15 mins cause all folks are going to do is when your mast starts to get weak is pop the repair.

 

Have you tried demasting upper parts of the masts? I'd be very much fine if you could make sure someone isn't fast enough anymore to escape, without being able to completely cripple a ship from fully demasting them to 0%.

[Sureshot]

26 minutes ago, koltes said:

I agree. These guys are pushing very hard for their own and only style gameplay.

Point is its fair on all sides. I bet ya, these "vocals" are not happy with 3 min join timer they will push until its 2. Then push further.

Yeah, I guess you could say us vets aren't the biggest fans of surrounding enemy on open world while they can't see you. Then tagging over and over so your line ships end up being faster than a speed renomee.

But I guess you wouldn't understand that since you play on global, am I right? with 6 ppl. 

Edited June 13, 2017 by SeaHyena

[King of Crowns]

12 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

Look, i know its hard for you guys to understand the whole "Revenge fleet" stuff since this the first time in a long long time there has been potential for it to be an issue. 

But some of us were around the last time it was an actual issue. Where your only option was to log off, or face a revenge fleet. Where we tested in combination with both 1 minute invisibility and 2 minute invisibility. 
We had less players back then than you have on the Global server now, yet it became a huge issue.. As soon as people start figuring out how to place themselves on the OW to be 100% sure of catching whoever exits that battle it is going to be absolute hell. The only way to escape those "revenge fleets" will be if the "revenge fleets" make some huge mistakes. 

As for the timer, 3 minutes. I will push for 2 minutes no matter what. 
2 minutes is where you hit the "what you see is what you get RoE" that is good. 
Once more, i know its hard for some of you to understand since maybe you weren't here when longer timers were tested (Before EA). But as soon as people start to understand how to take advantage of it, it will once again become a big issue. And there is no doubt here, back then even with 100-150 people online it was an issue so how you can possibly argue that it wont be an issue is something i simply cannot comprehend.. 

I'll also argue that 2 minute timer + modified version of signalling perk (allowing defenders to get up to 1,25 or so in BR) is the best compromise we will ever get. 

Koltes, the whole: "These guys just want the game to fit their playstyle" is the worst argument you can possibly come up with. I can say the exact same about you so lets not do that yeah?

yea... tommy... ur right we don't understand revenge fleets.......... glad you got us figured out.

 

or perhaps it shouldn't be easy for people to get kills in enemy waters....... maybe you should hut farther out of enemy waters instead of right infront of their capital or their main base of operations? OR bring more people!

Edited June 13, 2017 by King of Crowns

[Neptune]

6 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

yea... tommy... ur right we don't understand revenge fleets.......... glad you got us figured out.

 

or perhaps it shouldn't be easy for people to get kills in enemy waters....... maybe you should hut farther out of enemy waters instead of right infront of their capital or their main base of operations?

I think I just got cancer reading this post.

 

[TommyShelby]

7 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

yea... tommy... ur right we don't understand revenge fleets.......... glad you got us figured out.

 

or perhaps it shouldn't be easy for people to get kills in enemy waters....... maybe you should hut farther out of enemy waters instead of right infront of their capital or their main base of operations?

Perhaps, just perhaps, there is "Home defense fleets" that are no where near their home waters? 
Or maybe that is not an option. 
Could you please tell that to the "Home Defense Fleets" i encountered after winning PvP battles at Les Cayes, La Mona, Cayo Romano and San Agustin?

Please, if you want to make a counter argument, make a good one instead of this non-constructive bullshite

[King of Crowns]

1 minute ago, TommyShelby said:

Perhaps, just perhaps, there is "Home defense fleets" that are no where near their home waters? 
Or maybe that is not an option. 
Could you please tell that to the "Home Defense Fleets" i encountered after winning PvP battles at Les Cayes, La Mona, Cayo Romano and San Agustin?

Please, if you want to make a counter argument, make a good one instead of this non-constructive bullshite

game is hard for the solo player. bring ur clan with you. it will make ur life easier when hunting.  otherwise hop in your surprise and go do w/e you want they cant catch you so who cares.

[Sureshot]

They aren't home defense fleets if they were in a region 2 hours away farming PVE. If they were home defense fleets they would be already be there to "defend" right?  Apparently teleporting in from a region hours away then camping enemys battle without them being able to see you is a "home defense fleet". Pretty comical tbh. ;p Much realistic, so fun.