War Supplied from 0 to 100

[RURickJames]

This may not have been what the devs were thinking, but I pretty much equate War Supplies to ground troops.  'Dropping a War Supply Bomb', in my book was the creation and landing of an entire army in the region.  Yes, that would pretty much = 100% hostilities in someones neighborhood, no?

[maturin]

War supplies should never be the last stray IMHO.

Maybe they should max out at providing 75% of REMAINING hostility. That makes them a costly shortcut, not the coup de grace.

[Fenris]

Needs a timer of how much can be turned in.  Say 25% worth of hostility every so many hours.  Maybe 4 times in a day so you can flip a port in a day over the day, but not all at once.   The turn in will be locked until set time than more can be turned in.

 

 

Even than there was a warning and they where able to fight back even though many bases where over ran.   Dropping 100% war supplies at one time gives no chance to fight back.  It's like dropping the A-Bomb on some one at the start of a war to declare and finish it all at once pretty much.

 

Cause if they can do it with this one port who to say with enough planning they can't just keep doing it until they flip all the regions?   Of course depending on the port battles and all.

Nobody will give you warning about attack unless you do some surveillance.Thats the issue which every nation has to manage in their own way.

Complaining about War Supplies were too OP,and let`s nerf them now,is just another way to dismantle the game. Even when the PB timer is set,you can still win in that PB,if you are a defender. And that should be a warning enough.

Trying to force people do more PvP,by nerfing the Supplies won`t help at all.Each nation has to have some kind of coast guard, and try to prevent gankers or such "hidden operations".If a nation sleeps,such things happen.

Be a little slow,be a little late,and this happens.And it has a reason.

 

p.s. about dropping A bombs on a enemy to begin and end the war...

       We live in 21st century. you dont have to declare war on somebody to begin a war. btw, you name it,it hasnt have to be an A bomb, but its how the attack begins.With a schock.

[Daniboy3000]

Why not turning the war supplies, into some sort of PVP mission, one side has to try and escort supply ships to some destination, while the other side has to kill those

supply ships. The winner gets hostility points or lowers them. This would mean more PvP for everyone and a chance to intercept the war supplies...

[Hethwill]

While it seems an interesting idea why would war supplies be treated differently from a 25 ships fleets killing all OW fleets, including the regional big one, and doing exactly the same ?

 

I like the idea of it becoming an event but at the same time dislike that we have to treat it differently from combat. After all some like combat and others like trading and hostility raise through war supplies is to traders what pvp/pve combat is to war captains.

[Sir Henry de Montfort]

First, fens this isn't the tet offensive this was 1700-1800 when it took a while to do anything.

The problem is war supplies cause the hostility to go from 0-100 in 5 min.

Why is it a problem?

Hostility was brought in to cut down on a multitude of P.B's everynight. It was "meant" to initiate increased pvp battles between players.

War supply basically kills all pvp....

Example this week for the Danish to raise hostility thousands of miles away in U.S. (Georgia) it would have been extremely difficult to do conducting pvp....so war supplies...done in 5 min. They did same thing in the attack on bahamas...then disconnect fleet outside port all done.

1) the war supplies eliminated all the pvp..

2) prevented any allies from assisting

So why did we go to this new PB system? More PVP and less PB. But war supply prevents this and is bad in many ways...

1) war supplying is hard to defend, American players and Russian players tend to be on opposite time zones. Just dump supplies at low player times...all over. At least if war supplies was nerfed or removed, allies could cover for focused nation..etc.

2) it eliminates screening and patrol groups...cause again you cant sail around all day looking for those traders (boring) and we all can't play 12 hours EVERYDAY....

3) Devs also wanted people pvping and battling on our nation's front lines...with war supplies there is no frontlines.....and remember this is 1790...not 2016. Back then you just couldn't sail deep into enemy territory...

I'm not crying about anything...brits this, Danes that.... what ever...half of you change nations every 4 months anyways and it's all gonna get wiped anyway. So please enough with the negativity. We need to find a good medium. I'm sure war supplies can be fixed, but how?

Personally as a former army officer...sending war supply to guerrillas doesn't so much make its hostility go up as much as deny it to the enemy or make maintaining it extremely high.

Suggestion...War supplies increase hostile from 30-50 percent gradually over a determined time period. Also makes the cost of all goods in region go up and up as hostility goes up (security and precautions cost extra money)..... to a point where markets close down....just an idea.

[Wesreidau]

Increasing the supply weight is a start. More ships mean more chances to intercept them.

 

The ability to go from 0 to 100 is problematic. If a zone was at 50% hostility, and the bomb delivered and took it to 100%, then people at least had some notice the area was under attack. Or to go from 0% to 50% as a surprise of unexpected hostility, to be followed up by people fleeting... also acceptable. 

 

I would only allow 50% of a port's hostility to be from war supplies. Otherwise it can't be countered, since nobody knows when another faction's clan is going to set their alarm clocks.

[Guest]

Increasing the supply weight is a start. More ships mean more chances to intercept them..

Not really an issue as long as the weights for the single items (muskets, gunpowder) are still much lower than the war supply itself. You can carry the light items to a nearby friendly or free town easily to craft the war supplies there. Edited November 7, 2016 by Guest

[Hethwill]

The zone was not at 0%, IIRC was around 30%. The war supplies bumped it to 98%. I think there is a lot of odd information surrounding this issue.

[Wesreidau]

Bumping it up 68% all at once is still too much of an instantaneous increase, and given that this is a new mechanic we're all feeling out, its not surprising it created a stir.

 

Its possible to go from 0% to 100% at 4 AM. A lot of people think that's foul play, since there's no way to stop hostility generation like that. And, you know, since we're pretending hostility generation is the new "screening", it mimics that other tactic everyone's angry about, bypassing screening with log-in camping.

 

If hostility generation is capped at 50% of the total for a war supply delivery, then we'll all know to "screen" and push that 55% hostility down late at night so we don't wake up to a port battle timer.

 

Hostility generation is still skewed for the attacker because of these various means

 

 

Not really an issue as long as the weights for the single items (muskets, gunpowder) are still much lower than the war supply itself. You can carry the light items to a nearby friendly or free town easily to craft the war supplies there.

 

Requiring an allied or free port. Allied ports, no problem. I see a problem with free port deliveries shipping around war supplies to the heart of enemy territory, or crafting war supplies in free ports.

 

Maybe free ports will refuse your docking if you're carrying war supplies without a smuggler tag?

Maybe free ports forbid delivery of war supplies between free ports?

Maybe free ports forbid crafting war supplies in free ports?

 

Simple explanation for the "realism" grognards, it would violate the laws of neutrality.

 

As I said, this is a new mechanic and we're shaking it down. Changes clearly need to be made until we can all agree its a fair tactic. Free ports are a useful place to store war supplies before an invasion, but it should be done with the Contraband flag at the very least, so we have a chance to intercept them. Delivering Fort Royal's war supplies from Cairracou to Little River via an invisible NPC ship is not my idea of a risky venture, nor is shipping the components and crafting them locally. Deep territories need to remain difficult to reach with these hypothetical shiploads of infantry.

[Hethwill]

It is a infant mechanic indeed.

 

Thing is, if too many limitations it kills the purpose.

 

Same thing with people avoiding PvP... and they know, they know... that PvP awards more hostility points.

[Wesreidau]

It is a infant mechanic indeed.

 

Thing is, if too many limitations it kills the purpose.

 

Same thing with people avoiding PvP... and they know, they know... that PvP awards more hostility points.

 

The purpose, so far as I can tell, is to allow PvE crafters to participate in PvP by producing war supplies, and to create convoys of smuggling ships to simulate invading land armies that we can intercept.

 

Unfortunately nobody can intercept something done at 4 AM. 

 

A similar "smuggle things to invade" mechanic exists in Elite Dangerous, and there the complaint was that players can smuggle things over on the "PvE" side and influence the "PvP" side. Here the complaint seems to be that its too fast and quiet to facilitate interception.

 

Its also something of a problem that the Danes seem to be coming up with all the dubiously acceptable means of opening and winning port battles, right before they get hotfixed. I don't think there's a Russian bias either, but I do see where the thought comes from. The devs and Danes both would do well to avoid giving false appearances.

[Hethwill]

I will stop adding to the discussion. It is not going to where I was hoping.

 

Like in E:D the undertaking to produce the supplies output is not light.

[Wesreidau]

I will stop adding to the discussion. It is not going to where I was hoping.

 

Like in E:D the undertaking to produce the supplies output is not light.

 

Where were you hoping it would go? I agree it isn't a light undertaking, but it needs to not take place in relative safety or be AI-delivered into a free port. There were Spanish ports nearby where the final war supplies could be assembled, or smuggled from into a free port under a contraband flag. But to just teleport your war supplies into a free port and then set out at 4 AM is unsporting, and annoys the other half of the player base.

[Slamz]

Personally as a former army officer...sending war supply to guerrillas doesn't so much make its hostility go up as much as deny it to the enemy or make maintaining it extremely high.

 

That might be interesting: if war supplies were actually not about raising hostility but about either preventing the enemy from raising theirs or preventing them from lowering yours.

 

 

Idea 1) Currently ports lose hostility on their own at a certain rate. Maybe war supplies eliminate that. As long as there are war supplies in the town, natural decay of hostility will not occur -- decay will eat war supplies instead. This makes it more reasonable to call it a night and pick up where you left off tomorrow.

 

Idea 2) Attackers can drop war supplies and it acts as a buffer for lowering hostility through any means. If an attacker gets sunk then the game will eat X number of war supplies rather than lowering hostility.

 

Idea 3) Defenders could potentially use war supplies in this way too. By keeping a port supplied, it prevents attackers from raising hostility. Not sure I like that as much, though. It adds a nice element of economic warfare but would result in fewer port battles whereas the above ideas would result in more port battles.

[Hethwill]

No one likes to lose. That's where I am getting.

 

Limiting playstyles is the worst possible route. We need to step back a bit and look.

 

Right now there's no doubt there is way more combat in a PB and surrounding areas than ever before. There's no empty port battles. There's screeners fighting screeners outside. Hell, Savannah had 4 big battle raging including the PB. If that is not fun and full of action I have no idea what we are searching for.

 

What is exactly the issue with War Supplies IF they take a lot of effort to make ? Aren't they a choice as valid as "farming" NPCs ? Aren't they as important as PvP ? A handful of good PvP battles in the region has the same effect of War Supplies. Thing is everyone runs away.

 

Find us all a solution that brings PvP to the PvP server.

[Elric]

Given the hostility is only the first step in taking the port, I don't see that the War Supplies are a big deal.  The port battle still favors the defenders - esp. when you know the exact time the battle is going to open, you can intercept enemy ships before the enemy even get into the port battle, and you have the towers to provide extra defense in the PB over the attacking fleet.

[Bach]

That might be interesting: if war supplies were actually not about raising hostility but about either preventing the enemy from raising theirs or preventing them from lowering yours.

Idea 1) Currently ports lose hostility on their own at a certain rate. Maybe war supplies eliminate that. As long as there are war supplies in the town, natural decay of hostility will not occur -- decay will eat war supplies instead. This makes it more reasonable to call it a night and pick up where you left off tomorrow.

Idea 2) Attackers can drop war supplies and it acts as a buffer for lowering hostility through any means. If an attacker gets sunk then the game will eat X number of war supplies rather than lowering hostility.

Idea 3) Defenders could potentially use war supplies in this way too. By keeping a port supplied, it prevents attackers from raising hostility. Not sure I like that as much, though. It adds a nice element of economic warfare but would result in fewer port battles whereas the above ideas would result in more port battles.

I would add to this that there should be limits to the amount of useful war supplies. Giving 600 muskets and Swords to 200 rebels doesn't make them better rebels.

The problem with the hostility bombs is that they simulate a near instantaneous successful revolt. I might be better if war supplies shifted a morale factor back and forth that in turn effected the loss or gain rate of hostility. This way instead of just the war supplies flipping a port they would make it so other players could fight with less number and time to create hostility shifts. But it would still require players fighting to get it flipped.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Bach

[Hethwill]

That is correct Bach. Arms do not make the Rebels nor the lack of security at sea. Maybe the Raids can be the spark that ignites the barrel ?

[Snoggy]

You could always just sort of merge the old flag system with the war supplies. So rather than buying a flag with gold, you had to produce war supplies to fund a flag and then the big ole announcement would go out and you sail to the enemy port.... Now this wouldn't be an entire 100% bomb, maybe 50%? but it would give a bit of warning for people to defend against the flag.

 

 

War supplies can still be used to raise the hostility by wee bits, maybe 5 percent each or somesuch.... but the flag would be a 50%, but such a high number has to be announced.

 

 

I mean theoretically you could just plop war supplies in all your owned ports and if one goes down, wait to drop it and immediately get a port battle.

[Archaos]

Have the Dev's considered another way that War Supplies could be exploited. That is by people transporting the raw materials to a port under a smugglers flag and then trading the mats to an alt who crafts the supplies and stores them till they have the required number to raise hostility to 100%.

As I type this I just note that Bermuda has gone instantly to port battle without any notice of increase in hostility. There was no big fleet with war supplies so there was no way it could have been done with a fleet.

I hope the devs reverse this port battle. This game mechanic is seriously broken.

[North]

23 minutes ago, Archaos said:

Have the Dev's considered another way that War Supplies could be exploited. That is by people transporting the raw materials to a port under a smugglers flag and then trading the mats to an alt who crafts the supplies and stores them till they have the required number to raise hostility to 100%.

As I type this I just note that Bermuda has gone instantly to port battle without any notice of increase in hostility. There was no big fleet with war supplies so there was no way it could have been done with a fleet.

I hope the devs reverse this port battle. This game mechanic is seriously broken.

Yea no fleet, just 24 indiamans..

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198058810904/screenshots/

[Hethwill]

Damn the lookouts were all asleep

[North]

26 minutes ago, Archaos said:

Have the Dev's considered another way that War Supplies could be exploited. That is by people transporting the raw materials to a port under a smugglers flag and then trading the mats to an alt who crafts the supplies and stores them till they have the required number to raise hostility to 100%.

As I type this I just note that Bermuda has gone instantly to port battle without any notice of increase in hostility. There was no big fleet with war supplies so there was no way it could have been done with a fleet.

I hope the devs reverse this port battle. This game mechanic is seriously broken.

Next time don't acuse people of cheating by just saying you didn't see anything when you don't have all the facts..

That the brits only use the port for their bermuda cedar buildings and nothing else and don't protect or do any activity their so you could spot doesen't mean magical teleported there...

[Magnum]

2 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Damn the lookouts were all asleep

No - actually not and it is disingenuous for you to say that