Suggestion for 1 dura ships

[Siegfried]

Now with the new patch notes, the 1 dura ships disccusion was raised. I have some suggestions for made it more... attractive. I know is probably too late for so big changes in this part of the game.

 

The main idea for the next suggestions are change the dura sistem with real number of ships, convert 1 ship with 5 dura in 5 ships with 1 dura each. At same time avoid the loss feeling.

 

First make the port space bigger. Maybe with slots based in ship's size. For example 15 slots, ampliable paying money. In each slot you can moor 1 first, second, third or fourth rate ship, 2 fifth rates or 3 sixth and seventh rates. Numbers and types are an example only.

 

Make the ships cheaper labour hours. At least the smaller ones.

 

Make the resources cheaper or lighter in the cargo holds.

 

Maybe we can quit the crafting notes too and make the craft level matters

 

Make the upgrades less powerfull (already announced in patch notes) or cheaper too. Maybe alternatively put durabilities in the upgrades.

 

Make the trim, stats of ships invisible for player eyes and totally random. This way nobody can to know how good or bad is the ship, only with experimentation. And you avoid good ships are too important for people avoiding some of need for running or risk fear.

 

Eliminate the color of quality of ships too. No more basic/grey, common/green... yellow/exceptional clasification. All ships the same "colour" and only with experimentation you can learn how good is the ship and never to be sure about that. This way is good for the social part of the game and trading. You don't know really how many money a ship worth. You need trust, or not in the seller word. You can earn a reputation as a good tester of ships and raise the price with your recomendation or "quality seal". Ships can to earn a reputation too and to be a desirable property for command or capture from an enemy captain (as Endymion in real word was). Maybe we need put in the ship a sort of serial number for this

 

Don't flame wars please, is only a set of suggestions in a game.

[Eishen]

Very interesting approach...

 

Personally , I would prefer  the quality/color code as a tested quick identifier being retained , and the crafting notes for build them , but would lessen the difference between "excellence levels" to only both characteristics (chosen and random one ; i.e Palnking/stiffness) level, no plain bonuses to stats and no different upgrade number limit. 

 

Personally would prefer the stats being visible as many of us have not the patience/time/skill to test extensively. Maybe having them only displayed at sea to allow "quality reputation" speak for the shipwright? ...btw currently I know some builders give an extra to their ships by having pre-installed permanent upgrades I see that a good personal addition.

 

Deepening in the crafters level/skill (maybe dreaming) I would like to see crafters speciallising (as distributing skill points) above some level, so their ships (better yet, certain class ships) have a base (small) better trim (speed , turning, stiffness, etc..)...so as an example "buying an exceptional  Siegfried frigate assures you top of the line pursuer ship second to none his class"

[Anolytic]

I like your suggestion a lot. Particularly that about making ship quality invisible and something you can discover for yourself through experiencing the ship in action.

 

I also like the idea of 1 dura ships. Alternatively I would at least want 1st AND 2nd rates to be 1 dura. 3rd rates and fourth rates could be 2 dura, and the rest could be 3 dura. That would make 3rd rates more useful and 2nd rates more risky to use.

[victor]

OP basically is proposing to lower the costs of manufacturing of ships in order to transfrom the trade of ships into a blind bet - but low cost - game. This appears to me as something that would create a very anti-optimal resource allocation, due to the insane amount of transaction cost caused by the level of risk that each single business would imply for both parts. I have more than a doubt that it could work (and this, even not mentioning the level of scam that such a system would create).

 

More interesting appears what eishen says: creating a "crafting tree" in which traders could allocate skills point (50, since 50 are the levels) that can allow - in example - a bonus on speed, or on thickness, or on hit points, or on crew space, or in turn rate or on reload rate, or on stiffness and so on. if every max level crafter can get only 2 out of these bonus, this would actually create specialization in the crafting profession that could be interesting in terms of different ships cruising the sea.

Edited October 6, 2016 by victor

[fox2run]

To make ships harder to get means that players will risk less. That again means that less PvP will take place or that only no-risk-ganking PvP will take place. Again another example to empty OW ACTION!

[Ned Loe]

Why hiding quality? If I know a players sails exceptional I will try to take it from him. Otherwise most players will remain passive. 

[Hethwill]

If loss is an issue for so many, which I believe it might be correct, then give it as a fairly "special crafters build" for players that want to play Ironman outlaw mode .... if such a thing is even thought of

[Siegfried]

Guys, the OP is not for crafting system, trading, etc... Is about 1 dura ships and make the idea more player friendly. More disposable ships but maintain the differences in quality, only that invisible for players. Some time ago, Admin said tha he wants the ships are only a disposable tool or something like that. When you put a label as exceptional ship or so easy to read, you have a not disposable tool. And in the real life all ships had a reputation, not a performance sheet to check.

[Snoopy]

I kinda like the idea, but it will make the game slower still (and increase the 'loss' anxiety, too, I fear).

Durabilities are a quality of life improvement, without them you have to sail back home to fetch another ship.

 

Also, module cost needs to come down as well, and for me the biggest issue on 1 dura boats is called "Exceptional Powder Monkeys".

 

1 dura ships are a case of "careful what you wish for"

[Siegfried]

Snoopy, I think in the Exceptional Powder Monkeys" too, I put some idea for that too, cheaper modules, and all craftable or modules with duras. Many people were suggesting the dura in modules and not in ships.

[Eishen]

I kinda like the idea, but it will make the game slower still (and increase the 'loss' anxiety, too, I fear).

Durabilities are a quality of life improvement, without them you have to sail back home to fetch another ship.

 

Also, module cost needs to come down as well, and for me the biggest issue on 1 dura boats is called "Exceptional Powder Monkeys".

 

1 dura ships are a case of "careful what you wish for"

 

   Agree, I do not think quality difference is the "loss anxiety" big cause  (cost difference of 4xnotes) and if build cost are downgraded when/if duras are gone it should not affect (much) that problem...     but upgrades /specially non craftable ARE a real problem

 

 

Snoopy, I think in the Exceptional Powder Monkeys" too, I put some idea for that too, cheaper modules, and all craftable or modules with duras. Many people were suggesting the dura in modules and not in ships.

 

 Some solutions (i.e. module dura ) s needs to be done previous (or at same time ) than reducing duras to avoid

 

Dreaming again....all that kind of "modules" (marines, monkeys boarding parties...in general most non-craftable) should be crew perks gained throught  crew XP very like the officer ones we got now -losing some XP when you replace crew btw -

[Siegfried]

Non crafteable, and even all modules are only a sort of temporal placeholders now, we are in testing early access phase of the game, don't forget this.

[SheepDip]

My opinion , Marines , Monkeys and the nons should stay the same , I had a guy last nite wanted to trade me an Agamemnon (Gold) for 1 of my Gold Marines .

1st rates should stay the same , DON"T GO OUT CRUISING ALONE IN YOUR GOLD SANTI OR VIC !!!

Losing good stuff is part of the game , part of the RISK ! 

[Alado]

I would like, all ships 1 dura, and updates 5 dura. And all ships and updates craftables.

[Yar Matey]

I brought this up quite a while ago here:  http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15332-suggestion-for-removing-ship-durability-from-the-game/

 

Seems that most people like their multi-durability ships and I was in the minority in wanting to move to a 1 dura system.

[themule08]

He is my take..

1 durable ships will work if and only if..

1. Upgrades are reduced in notes and have expiration.. and they follow ship if capped.

2. Mats stay the same to build a ship..cut the notes down though to 1 or 2 at most.

3. Labor hours to make a ship are reduced though..means crafting parts and the over all ship. If said frigate gives 5 durable now cut labor by 5.

What this will do is allow more ships to be made..increasing availability of them even on low pop servers.

Biggest issue with ships now are time sink of carriages and notes.. if that was cut I could produce ships a lot faster..we all know this..

[Sir Texas Sir]

Why hiding quality? If I know a players sails exceptional I will try to take it from him. Otherwise most players will remain passive. 

and the guys we know all ways show up in basics we just sink cause they aren't worth taking the time to capture.   Some guys are just that predictable and we can some times guess the build by what the ship does, or even crew.  Reloads slow and has maxed out crew it's prob a board build ship.    Fast as hell and can't take a beaten it's prob made of fir.  Hidding the build from the person that would know that ship the best is kinda stupid.  A good captain should know his ship weakness and strengths, but this should take us for ever to find out in game.  Not to mention some folks can loose there ships within hours of it being crafted.  This is why I'm not a big fan of every ship going to one dura.  I think they should make them more costly so that folks will be more willing to fight in Frigates more than SOL's you tend to see a lot in the OW.  That and the learning curve is really harsh for new players so loosing that new one dura low level ship could be all they could afford and now they are back in a basic cutter.   We need to have some middle ground.

[Tonnerre de Brest]

I like the idea of one dura ships, however at this time I think they're sinking way to easy. I would want mechanics that allow these ships to survive even when the outcome is dire just like they actually did in real life. Also everyone would avoid sinking them most of the time, on one side to save their own skin and on the other to preserve the prize. I like the idea that ships stay alive after battles are lost and can be re-captured later in a future encounter.

Recently someone presented to me a ship I had lost and they had captured it back from my opponent. It only happens after boarding and never any other way. I think there should be other way to cap a ship.

 

This is an excerpt of a post I made in another area of the forum that addresses that issue:

 

>>

I again take inspiration from real world for guidance. I don't think that captains would let ships sink so easily whether on the defending or attacking side. The loss of life alone, including their own would be enough incentive for the losing captain to make an effort toward the survival of the ship.

For the winner, the prize is one of the incentives for getting in the fight. The ship can be taken and added to your own war effort, the crew taken as press gang, etc...

Also I don't think that wooden ships sank that easily as they do in the game. I understand that we need to have a clear "win" or "loose" status for game play clarity. However this create a loss of opportunity in other areas.

 

Once the majority of the crew has been dedicated to keeping the boat afloat and can no longer fight... Once the pumps can't overcome the water coming in and repair kits have been used... Once the main mast is down after repair kit has been used... (insert more instances of unrecoverable loss here) I would think it's time to cry uncle and maybe, once this level of damage is achieved (when water line is high enough that cannons are inoperable for instance but boat is still afloat?), the white flag should come up automatically in the game, declaring a "stranded status" as the damaged ship is no longer maneuverable, no longer in the fight, and is not as much to be boarded as it is to be rescued.

 

At this point the winning side would have a certain time limit to board the ship before it sinks, assign crew to it, use repair kits of its own to prevent it from sinking, etc... If they fail to get to the stranded boat in time, it is doomed and sinks with all hands. The losing captains loses boat, crew and officer.

 

If they get to it in time,  on the losing side, part of automating this end game process gives the vanquished captain the choice to surrender this one durability boat as well as surrender his crew to replace the lost crew of the winning captain in exchange for keeping the life of his officer. If he refuses he basically refuses to be rescued and sinks with all hands, looses the boat, crew and one officer's life.

So choices, are surrender and you keep your officer's life or sink and loose all but deny the winner from taking the boat and crew. This is not a boarding battle, it is essentially a rescue.

>>

 

Anyway this is the full post if you want to read the whole thing (it's a bit long)  http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/16836-upgrades-one-durability-ships-battle-end-game-alternatives/

[Bach]

1 dura ships make participating in sequential Pvp battles very hard unless all battles are fought off home ports. It will create less PvP.

[Mrdoomed]

1 dura ships make participating in sequential Pvp battles very hard unless all battles are fought off home ports. It will create less PvP.

Heck, people wont fight with 4 durability ships and a cheapish endless supply of next ships so it cant make it much worse.

At worst it will just mean more basic or common ship and captured ships. Possibly rewarding good captains in gold ships the bonus of actually making gold ships special.

Maybe now ever single 1st level player wont be given a gold ship to go farm xp.

You could be totally right but i dont see how pvp could decline more.