Suggestion for removing Ship durability from the game:

[Yar Matey]

I personally would like to see all ships have 1 durability just like a victory or Santisima because I strive for realism, and it is one of the reasons why I love this game so much.

 

My proposal is this, remove durability from the game but make ships cost less labor hours to build.  This can easily be achieved by making carriages cost way less labor hours as they currently are the largest bottleneck in building ships.  Also, make every module in the game craft able.  This way, it would take about 250 labor hours to build an exceptional upgrade for your ship assuming you have the coins, which are abundant now that we have sealed bottles. 

 

For modules like powder monkeys, marines, and boarding parties, make them cost crew to make now that we have crew implemented into the game.  For example, exceptional marines cost 400 crew to make, 300 for master craft, 200 for fine, 100 for common, and 50 for basic.  Boarding parties, and powder monkeys can have similar costs in crew. 

 

I am aware that many of these modules are subject to change as of now, but I feel like going to a 1 durability system will make the game so much more enjoyable and exciting for everyone who plays.  I do not, however, want the game to be ultra hard core, where the loss of a ship can set you back weeks, even months.  This is why replacing ships and modules should be made way easier.  If you lose a Santisima or a victory, it should take about 5 days to replace the ship (5000 labor hours).  For smaller ships like ingermanlands and constitutions, I would like to see it take maybe 3 days to replace the ship, or 3000 labor hours  Maybe 1 day or less to replace a shallow water ship (I am assuming that the ships you are losing are exceptional ships).

 

To replace lost modules on ships (assuming they are exceptional upgrades) it would take you about 2 days in labor hours to replace them (~2000 labor hours), assuming you have a 3/5 exceptional ship. 

 

The breakdown in replacing a ship lost in battle would look something like this:

 

Total cost in labor hours to replace a first rate ship plus 8 exceptional modules, 7 days (5000 labor hours for the ship and 2000 labor hours for the modules).

 

Total cost in labor hours to replace a 4 rate deep water ship plus 8 exceptional modules, 5 days (3000 labor hours for the ship and 2000 labor hours for the modules). Edited 3000 not 7000 labor hours to build the ship.

 

Total cost in labor hours to replace a shallow water ship plus 8 exceptional modules, 3 days (1000 labor hours for the ship and 2000 labor hours for the modules).

 

Obviously, this is going to vary from ship to ship, and a Santisima should cost more than a Victory, but 5000 labor hours is the approximate amount to build the components for the ship and assemble the ship.

 

With sealed bottles added to the game giving us labor contracts and exceptional upgrades plus piles of silver and gold coins, do not see any reason to keep the durability system in the game. 

 

Also, to make ship replacement easier due to loss in battle, I believe that port battles should be way more rewarding for the victors AND the losers.  If you are in a port battle and your side wins, you get a random chance for 1-2 labor contracts OR 1-2 master craft or exceptional modules along with 2 random notes (low, mid, or high).  If you are on the losing side of the battle, you are guaranteed 1 fine module and 1 random note with a 50% chance to get 1 labor contract.  This would greatly encourage players to go to port battles and participate and make the replacement of lost ships much better.  This way people do not get discouraged by losing their ships.    

 

Thoughts? 

 

TLDR:  Remove durability from the game, but make ships cost less in labor hours to replace, make modules cost ~1/4 what they cost now to craft, make all modules craftable, and greatly increase the rewards for participating in port battles for both the winners and losers.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Ultravis

[Anne Wildcat]

Um no. I believe it's been tried before, before early access. Please keep durabilities.

[Æthlstan]

You should really look at the current numbers before posting an involved idea like this

 

http://www.navalactioncraft.com/craft-ship/constitution

 

http://www.navalactioncraft.com/craft-ship/santissima

 

http://www.navalactioncraft.com/craft-ship/victory

 

Depending on what exceptional models you get your numbers already match

 

And I disagree. With how often people lose ships youre saying people should be without a ship for several days.

 

Bad idea

Edited July 19, 2016 by Æthlstan

[Yar Matey]

Um no. I believe it's been tried before, before early access. Please keep durabilities.

 

did you even read anything that I wrote, or did you just post no because you think it wont work?

You should really look at the current numbers before posting an involved idea like this

 

http://www.navalactioncraft.com/craft-ship/constitution

 

http://www.navalactioncraft.com/craft-ship/santissima

 

http://www.navalactioncraft.com/craft-ship/victory

 

I am a level 50 crafter and I am aware of how much it cost to replace a ship.  I have built many a ships from shallow water ships to victories and Santies. My proposal would make a Santisima cost ~1500 less labor hours.  An ingermanland, ~300 less hours. But the modules is where the real cost in labor hours would be drastically reduced, ~1/4 if a mid grade note cost 50 labor hours instead of 200.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Ultravis

[OlavDeng2]

Um no. I believe it's been tried before, before early access. Please keep durabilities.

Actually it hasnt been tried yet, there has been a lot of push for some people to try it, but it hasnt yet

[Dragonfire]

No thanks to the idea And yes I read and yes I have been a lvl 50 crafter each time since ow 1 after trials.

 

Taking a game in this direction will only make ppl quit the game due to taking the  grind to even a higher level and that will strangle the game player wise even farther frustrating the player population.

 

Players trying to make it hard core and realistic are going to find just them playing the game by themselves and I can't see that being a good thing at all.

 

A balance is needed not taking it to another extreme level. What may seem fun for Me or you might be crap for a whole bunch of players and I for one am not too motivated to play long hours with 300 ppl online or 800 as it is now.

 

 

I can grind 2-5 days to replace lost things if I get jumped 4-1 by a bunch of players from a way bigger nation most other player will say it's just isn't worth the lost time with limited time they have to play the game on weekends and after work .

Edited July 21, 2016 by Dragonfire

[Chimera]

Dont like it. If you cut cost by 5 for a fithrate it doesn't have any effect, other than having to go back to port collect material and craft more often.

If you cut cost by less then five it only decreases availability of ships and encourages running away over fighting it out.

A lot of downside for no real benefit: therefor I vote NO!!

[Rabid_Infidel]

While it would add a bit more realism to the game i fail to see the purpose to it and benefit.

By getting rid of Dur ppl will be more scared to engage and to die in pvp, resulting in less encounters or 

more boring encounters where one side tries to flee if they even smell a hint of a loss..

 

In your proposition i see a lot of possible negative effects to the game yet little of positive ones. 

[Yar Matey]

No thanks to the idea And yes I read and yes I have been a lvl 50 crafter each time since ow 1 after trials.

 

Taking a game in this direction will only make ppl quit the game due to taking the  grind to even a higher level and that will strangle the game player wise even farther frustrating the player population.

 

Players trying to make it hard core and realistic are going to find just them playing the game by themselves and I can see that being a good thing at all.

 

A balance is needed not taking it to another extreme level. What may seem fun for Me or you might be crap for a whole bunch of players and I for one am not too motivated to play long hours with 300 ppl online or 800 as it is now.

 

 

I can grind 2-5 days to replace lost things if I get jumped 4-1 by a bunch of players from a way bigger nation most other player will say it's just isn't worth the lost time with limited time they have to play the game on weekends and after work .

 

Well, there is always the option to buy a basic ship from port.  The grind can also be reduced by making materials in ports more available to people by increasing the replenish rate and also making them cheaper to purchase, perhaps making iron cost 40 gold instead of 149 gold per 1 ore.  I also do not think the game should be grindy, but I also do not think being able to build an exceptional constitution or ingermanland every 3 days to be that grindy.  The real grindy part of the game is getting exceptional modules for your ship, not replacing the ship itself, which is why note labor hour costs should be drastically reduced and all modules craftable.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Ultravis

[DeRuyter]

Lots of discussion on this subject posted on the Poll topic just above this thread:

 

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/11383-should-ships-have-durability/

[Yar Matey]

Lots of discussion on this subject posted on the Poll topic just above this thread:

 

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/11383-should-ships-have-durability/

 

Yes I saw that, but, you simply cannot remove durability from the game without changing the crafting system to make it easier to build ships and modules.  Ships need to be replaced and modules need to be replaced.  I am on the side of wanting durability removed because it makes combat more exciting, and the risk associated with permanent loss of your ship gives me that adrenaline rush, but, as it is now, getting a pair of exceptional powder monkeys and marines can take month of playing the game. 

[Lytse Pier]

Yes, more realism!

There is/was only one Constitution. What are you guys going to sail, if I have claimed that ship?

Ladies, gents, it's a game.

[Kronans]

thise make it even less pvp and more pve so that is what you want??

[Yar Matey]

thise make it even less pvp and more pve so that is what you want??

 

PvE is not a bad thing.  With 1 durability, we will have much more demand for resources, so the economy will pick up.  I know older guys who like to sail around and do trading, so 1 durability ships will help them as demand picks up.  Ports will definitely need a replenishment rate buff, I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing.  I am flush with resources and I build ships for my clan mates all the time.  Not a crafting hour gets wasted.  I have a steady inflow every day of resources I need from setting up contracts in ports that produce the goods I need. 

Edited July 19, 2016 by Ultravis

[Koltes]

I support the idea of 1 dura.

Just like in Eve Online if you lost your ship its gone. Bye. It has been taken from you, that your very own ship. Player will become more mindful and will not sail what they cant afford.

Having your character cloned is bad enough, but 5 clones of one ship is ridicules.

Ship should be one fixed asses. If its gone its gone.

 

Upgrades on the other hands should be hmm "insured". If you paid insurance you wont lose them.

 

This would fix lots of pirate mechanics issues too. You want pirates not be able to craft or sail 1st rates? Make all ships 1 dura so if they capped then there is no clone

Everyone is happy

[themule08]

This would be fine with me.. I believe upgrades need to be looked at.. notes need to be 50 hours..1k hours for one upgrade is nuts.

[Chimera]

As stated earlier: the more expandable a ship becomes the more it's captain will be willing to risk it. If you make ships a rare good people will be less likely to take in a fight and more likely to run. Even with ships being rather easy to replace you see this in the open world. I'm in a 2/4 ship: "bring it". I'm in my 3/5 speed ships: "don't know if I'll be able to replace this soon. Let's stay in the side of caution here"

1 dura ships will reduce the likelihood of battles. Recent example. Spain attacked Georgetown with 1st rates. The port was properly defended and Spain was outnumbered. They left as soon as the British navy joined, saving their precious ships. If it was a 4th rate battle (with durability) they might have stayed for a fight instead of wasting everybody's time.

Nevertheless I think crafters need a boost. A high percentage of ships can't be sold on the market covering the costs of production. Buying the material and sub assemblies costs way more than the ships is worth (especially if it comes out as a gold 2/4)

No company would consider building a car, if buying the tires for it would already cost more than the car is going to be worth in the end.

In NA ships are only crafted for the open market because the crafter isn't really after the gold he receives for selling it but he gets an additional currency in XP and BP drop chance.

Reducing the durability on ships wouldn't change that. The overall prices might change, but the fact that 4 crafting notes are most likely worth more than a gold ship will sell for wouldn't.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Chimera

[Pelennor]

Just an idea:

 

Why not reduce durability with higher quality craft ? (to reintroduce other ships than gold in game)

 

For example:

 

Grey/Green= full durability

Blue/Purple=druability -1

Gold=durability -2

 

With a minimum of 1, of course.

 

With that system, you may put all ships to a 5 durability base, regardless their rank, in order to preserve the likelihood of battle.

[Wilson09]

Just an idea:

 

Why not reduce durability with higher quality craft ? (to reintroduce other ships than gold in game)

 

For example:

Grey/Green= full durability

Blue/Purple=druability -1

Gold=durability -2

 

With a minimum of 1, of course.

With that system, you may put all ships to a 5 durability base, regardless their rank, in order to preserve the likelihood of battle.

 

Like this idea at the first look....hm.

Yes, I like it....

[Hethwill]

I prefer the opposite somehow.

 

Keep the durabilities but make the ships 4x to 8x harder to build from the 4th rate and up.

 

7th/6th, as it is.

 

5th rates, 1.5x to 3x depending on models.

 

4th, 4x. 2nd 6x. 1st 8x.

 

Not labour hours multiplier but amount of materials.

[Wilson09]

I prefer the opposite somehow.

 

Opposite.

Make ships more easy to craft...and all 1 Dura or the above approach.

(makes boarding capping more exciting at low tiers....do I care to cap a Frigate? nah....)

[Hethwill]

Keep the duras make them more realistic construction amounts.

 

Check the Constitution construction values, parts, etc. And compare it to what we have in game.

 

The same way you can check the Leda class Trinc and compare it to how we have it in game.

[Fastidius]

admin has already said they wanted to remove duros,   It is a very flawed system that makes crafting broken except for the high end ships. It also makes ships mostly disposable.  The idea is not to sink ships but to capture them. 

 

Tweak whatever is needed to do it but everything that is a military 6th and higher should be 1 duro.  Also temporary upgrades should not be lost (and they never should have been,  this is just like a perk/flavour system)  Low grade notes and Mid grade notes are the issue you have with the crafting prices.   just buy greys from the shipyard.  golds are for people who out class the ship not for people who are buying it the first time.

[Fastidius]

Keep the duras make them more realistic construction amounts.

 

Check the Constitution construction values, parts, etc. And compare it to what we have in game.

 

The same way you can check the Leda class Trinc and compare it to how we have it in game.

your thinking about it from the wrong angle.  duros is only in the game because people don't realise they are meant to be capturing the ships....the better thing to do is to make people not get as good xp and gold from sinking....  you want to capture ships and not have yours captured.  sinking them isnt helping anyone except in port battles where the goal is the town ownership.

 

Think of it like kids and toys.  I want that toy...no you cant have it its mine..  ill take it... thats what the game is.   what it currently is.  I want that toy.  you can have it if you want it i have 4 others.   until it gets to the last duro its a bit less cared about.    The game is about being a bully. 

[Hethwill]

Won't disagree.

 

With the current upgrades system and the general aversion to loss on 1 dura for all rates that idea is a utopia.