Teleport cooldown - driving players out of the game

[Cpt Farragut]

I definitely think a shorter outpost to outpost cool down would be good for everything. It enables players to get to the parts of the game they find fun at nearly all times. Somewhere between 30-60 mins would get my vote. Keep 4 hours or even up it a little to TP with your ship to the capital.

For those worried this will lessen frontline PvP, it simply requires you to setup an outpost near the enemy and hunt them in their "safe spot". I'd say it would actually increase opportunities to shoot at things.

[surfimp]

Back when we had unlimited character teleports I could fight. Teleport. Get stuff. Move stuff (yes, actual sailing). Craft. Teleport back to action hotspots.

 

I completely back the idea of unlimited character teleports between outposts.

 

What I don't like is the teleportation of ships, because it takes them out of the open world.

 

I think we need an autopilot feature implemented which would allow you to set one of your vessels to sail through the OW to any port you can enter, using an NPC crew to do so.

 

Obviously, your ship might come under attack while transiting the open world, but that's a risk you'd run in exchange for the convenience of not being required to perform the sailing yourself.

 

It would put a lot more player-owned ships into the open world and give those who prefer sailing smaller vessels something meaningful to do in an RVR sense.

 

The net results I envision:

- Much more PVP (since you could easily teleport "where the action was")

- Creating a new, quasi-RTS play style of setting up your trade empire and having a bunch of ships moving on autopilot through the OW

- Improving the privateering/pirating gameplay style by giving actual RVR meaning to capturing player-owned but NPC-crewed ships

- These privateering/pirating players would also have compelling reasons to protect & hunt trade ships => more PVP for lower-level players

- Exposing many more player-owned resources to the depredations of the OW, putting a realistic and natural brake on the currently unrestricted accumulation of SOLs through easy / risk-free teleportation of cargoes via the existing teleport mechanic

 

The removal of reinforcements has been *great* for PVP, and I think the removal of ship teleports - so long as it is accompanied by a good system for moving those cargoes through the open world - would be the next "big win" enhancement.

Edited March 30, 2016 by surfimp

[Taralin Snow]

So you have to choose to either craft, produce, trade or go to war. Cannot do a bit of all, not allowed, too much fun.

 

Playing with friends? FORGET IT! GO TO WORK ON THE FRONTLINE INSTEAD!

 

GG, game dead ^^'

 

Before the player production patch, there was no reason you couldn't craft or trade on the front line.  Need a ship made?  All you have to do is find a port where both you and your crafter of choice have an outpost and meet there.  Hand over a cargo ship full of parts (which you could make anywhere, using resources you could get nearly anywhere), he clicks out a ship and hands it back to you.  Done.  Need to move your main warehouse to a new port?  Just load up a Traders Snow (or several if you have lots of stuff) and sail it over.  No problem (aside from the risk of ganks, but that just makes it more fun by giving you choices -- you decide if you want more trips in smaller faster ships, or fewer trips in slower ships, or maybe you will just wait for friends to escort you).

 

Really the high cost of shipyards is the only reason you can't continue to do this now.  Because shipbuilders are tied down to ports where they have made expensive investments, they can't easily move.  And since shipbuilders are typically the players with high craft levels (because shipbuilding is the only thing that earns a lot of crafting xp) you need to go to them for upgrades as well.  If we could find a way to move buildings (mostly shipyards since the other buildings are *almost* cheap enough to just tear down and rebuild) then we really could live on the front lines, or just a few ports back from it.

 

And if we could do that, we would hardly need teleports at all.

 

I think that the desire for more/faster teleports is a symptom of a deeper problem, that players find themselves forced to be in too many parts of the map.  You should be able to pick a place on the map to play, and play the whole game there (producing, crafting, trading (with the locals), open sea battles and port battles, all of it).  Moving should be a gradual thing, not done by warping from one end of the map to the other.

 

If you need to teleport somewhere to participate in a port battle, the real question should be why aren't there players there already who can take care of it?  Why do you need to be there?  If there are already defenders there let them handle it.  If there are no defenders there then why does your team need that port at all?  If you are on the attacking side then why do you even want to participate in something so far removed from the part of the map you're in now?  If the reason you need to teleport is because your team won't have enough players there otherwise, then what you are really doing is using the teleport mechanic as a Force Multiplier (letting a smaller group of players exert more force than they could without assistance) and in that case you need to remember that the higher-population team can do this as well (even more so) which means that teleports end up helping the strong team get stronger.  This doesn't seem to me to be the right direction to go.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Taralin Snow

[Galileus]

And if we could do that, we would hardly need teleports at all.

 

Wrong. If you could do that, you could do that and YOU would not need teleports at all. By removing teleports you would FORCE people to stick to one playstyle.

 

Also, moving buildings? Crafters jumping on frontlines? Traders risking their ships in gank-ville? Friends being forced to play in one region if they want to play together form time to time?

 

WHY!?

Why would you force your playstyle on everyone else? Even the sentence "if we could only make crafters move with us" is wrong and shows the problem. They don't need to move with you. YOU need them to move. And you try to force them to do so.

 

With the inability for friends to just jump into the game together and by completely killing the appeal of the big map this idea is complete insanity. Im sorry, but it is. It's crafted to fit YOU and YOUR playstyle and disregards everyone else's!

 

You should be able to pick a place on the map to play, and play the whole game there (producing, crafting, trading (with the locals), open sea battles and port battles, all of it).

 

What stops you?

 

What you're saying is not "you should", it's "you have to". And then one Black Friday means 50% of the nation drops the game, because they just lost everything and rebuilding will take forever. No. God forbid, no!

 

what you are really doing is using the teleport mechanic as a Force Multiplier (letting a smaller group of players exert more force than they could without assistance) and in that case you need to remember that the higher-population team can do this as well (even more so) which means that teleports end up helping the strong team get stronger.  This doesn't seem to me to be the right direction to go.

 

If the enemy team si bigger, TP does not allow it to get bigger. IT ALREADY IS. They are bigger, they can hold more people on the front. TP or no TP. This is simply wrong and untrue.

 

Proportional strength is proportional, nevermind if you have TP or not.

[jodgi]

I think we need an autopilot feature implemented which would allow you to set one of your vessels to sail through the OW to any port you can enter, using an NPC crew to do so.

I don't think we can. I believe admin has stated it would eat up too many server cycles.

[surfimp]

I don't think we can. I believe admin has stated it would eat up too many server cycles.

 

I hope that's not the case... I mean, the world is literally filled with autospawning NPC ships now, presumably it can't be that different?

 

This thread from back in 2013 is so spot-on to what I'm envisioning, I see I'm not alone - Admin's suggestion seems perfect:

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/311-automated-trading-routes-auto-convoy/?hl=autopilot

 

Maybe it was tried and found too CPU intensive? Hard to say. Maybe it can be revisited.

 

Initial idea is this

 

player will have the opportunity to

 

1. Haul himself (fastest)

2. Contract escorted NPC

3. Contract unescorted NPC

4. Contract trade route (slowest and most secure)

Edited March 30, 2016 by surfimp

[jodgi]

Oh, I dunno for sure. But I think the server would have to track auto player ships a bit more detailed than the system/random based AI.

When people wanted crafting to happen on a timer for each ship (kinda reverse of what we have now) it was denied due to server being bogged down in tracking too much stuff.

[Slamz]

So you have to choose to either craft, produce, trade or go to war. Cannot do a bit of all, not allowed, too much fun.

 

Playing with friends? FORGET IT! GO TO WORK ON THE FRONTLINE INSTEAD!

 

GG, game dead ^^'

 

On the contrary, what you just described is the present state of the game (and it is indeed close to "GG, game dead^^").

 

What I want is for my entire guild to be able to move together with the front line. We log on at the front line. We fight there, econ there, build ships there, attack from there and defend there. (Part of this solution would mean that front lines need to move slower, which means new port flipping mechanics.)

 

 

Instead, today, with 4-hour teleport timers into limited outposts, we find ourselves separated more frequently.

 

"Hey we're raiding the Brits out of La Tortuga! Come join us!"

"Sorry I used my teleport for econ. Can't make it."

"Sorry I used my teleport for a port defense around La Mona earlier. Gonna take me an hour to get there now."

"Sorry I used my teleport to get to my shipyard. Can't make it."

"Sorry I used my teleport to do fleeting around Basse-Terre. Can't make it."

 

Everyone is spread out by these teleports and the way the game prevents us from doing everything in one place.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Slamz

[Galileus]

Everyone is spread out by these teleports and the way the game prevents us from doing everything in one place.

 

So you want to FORCE them to follow your vision? Because if they are spread out it means they are enjoying NOT staying in one place.

Nothing stops you - as a clan - to stay in one place. So where is the problem? People don't want to stay in one place so you want to force them.

 

You're an awful person.

 

That was a nice try. I lie, it was not ^^' Nevertheless, thank you for supporting the "more teleports" line of argumentation with some solid evidence

[jodgi]

What I want is for my entire guild to be able to move together with the front line....econ there, build ships there,

I think this is the stumbling block.

Whenever I do hauling/crafting I absolutely detest loss. I think most players are like me. I've played as Swede, rat, Dutch and Danish. Crafters of all colors have stayed well clear of the frontlines, much more than necessary.

How will you convince them that moving with you and the frontline, exposing everything to the risk of loss, is a good feature?

[Taralin Snow]

Also, moving buildings? Crafters jumping on frontlines? Traders risking their ships in gank-ville? Friends being forced to play in one region if they want to play together form time to time?

 

WHY!?

Why would you force your playstyle on everyone else? Even the sentence "if we could only make crafters move with us" is wrong and shows the problem. They don't need to move with you. YOU need them to move. And you try to force them to do so.

 

If it helps you understand my motivation at all, I will tell you that I am a crafter and producer mostly.  I don't like being so far away from the front line; I would prefer to play with my friends but I often find myself unable to join them because my teleport is on cooldown after using it for some crafting-related task.

 

You might think that the solution to this problem is easy -- just reduce the teleport cooldown so that I can use it more often.  But I think that while this is personally convenient for me, it is damaging to the game as a whole, and especially damaging to the smaller teams.  A small team has a good chance against a larger team if they wait for an opportunity when the larger team is elsewhere.  But with teleports the large team is never truly someplace else because they can easily teleport back to you.  For the sake of the small teams I really think teleports need to be eliminated.  Even if this makes things less convenient for me personally.

 

As for traders risking ganks?  I think it's important for the game that rewards come with risks.  I do not see any reason why trading should be both profitable and risk free both at the same time.  Low-risk trade should give minimal profits.  High-risk trade should give lots of profit.  Staggering amounts of profit to the trader if he can successfully move his cargo, and staggering amounts of profit to the raider who can manage to steal it.  The safest places to do trading should be the places where you have the most teammates, so they can help you avoid ganks.  The "quiet" parts of the map should have NPC pirates to keep things interesting.

[Taralin Snow]

I think this is the stumbling block.

Whenever I do hauling/crafting I absolutely detest loss. I think most players are like me. I've played as Swede, rat, Dutch and Danish. Crafters of all colors have stayed well clear of the frontlines, much more than necessary.

How will you convince them that moving with you and the frontline, exposing everything to the risk of loss, is a good feature?

 

This is an excellent point.  I am on PVP2 playing on the French team, and at one point we were down to just a couple of ports.  You couldn't do any kind of crafting without risk due to the pirates that were taking all our ports (unless you were willing to sail 6 hours from the SE corner of the map up to Texas and Louisiana where there were still some French ports).  It was scary running cargo through areas where pirates were fleeting, doing missions, and hunting French, but if you wanted to craft you had no choice.

 

But you know what? It was also exhilarating, and if you think that moving cargo is rewarding, you haven't (1) successfully moved cargo right under the noses of your enemies or (2) successfully seized resources you need from those same enemies, to use to make ships to fight them with.

 

I do not know how to teach those other traders how much of the game they're missing.  This may just be another case of "the threat is worse than the execution".  Losing cargo stings but is quickly forgotten.  But for those who have never lost a cargo, the fear of loss can be crippling, much more so than any actual loss would ever be.

[Slamz]

Nothing stops you - as a clan - to stay in one place.

 

This is absolutely wrong.

 

Port battles, econ and open sea PvP usually occur in 3 totally different locations due to the game's current mechanics. Some way to consolidate all action around the front lines would be a huge improvement. We new different mechanics to support this.

 

Yes, we could also solve it with unlimited teleports but this will cause even bigger problems.

 

 

With unlimited teleports, this will be a "zerg wins" game. The biggest nation will simply teleport-zerg from hotspot to hotspot. There will be no concept of "ganging up on a larger nation to spread them out" or "sneak attack the big enemy before they can react". They will always be everywhere, zipping back and forth at the speed of light.

 

So no, we cannot increase the availability of teleports. That's narrow-minded thinking. Even reducing the cooldown timer to 1 hour would, I predict, create huge zerg problems. 1 hour is about how long some fights take so you would attack some enemies somewhere and always come out to find 20 enemies on the seas around you.

 

Then it would be back to your "GG game dead^^" scenario.

 

 

No, we need a more comprehensive solution to the general flow of the game.

[Slamz]

How will you convince them that moving with you and the frontline, exposing everything to the risk of loss, is a good feature?

 

Mostly I find the question to be baffling.

 

"How can I play a war profiteer, picking up war resources for the warships to use in the war, and get them into the war, and not risk anything while doing it?"

 

......You.....shouldn't...? Because....it's a war...?

 

To me it's like asking how you can play the Medic in Team Fortress 2 and just run around healing people and not risk getting shot. Getting shot is the whole basis of the game. Of course you should risk getting shot or, in this case, sunk. It is called "Naval Action" for a reason!

 

But I agree with Snow, too. Once you have lost your first couple trade ships, the suspense is lifted and it's not so bad after that.

 

Also, if you really want safe cargo, you can do it in a Trader Lynx which is about 99% impossible to catch.

 

You could also get escorts, either out of the kindness of their nation-loving hearts or because you pay them. As a PvPer I'd be perfectly willing to watch out for traders for free if I thought they were anywhere likely to get them attacked.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Slamz

[Galileus]

Sigh, nevermind.

 

As soon as someone uses "ITS A WAR!" argument, you know it's time to drop the topic ^^'

Edited March 30, 2016 by Galileus

[surfimp]

This is an excellent point.  I am on PVP2 playing on the French team, and at one point we were down to just a couple of ports.  You couldn't do any kind of crafting without risk due to the pirates that were taking all our ports (unless you were willing to sail 6 hours from the SE corner of the map up to Texas and Louisiana where there were still some French ports).  It was scary running cargo through areas where pirates were fleeting, doing missions, and hunting French, but if you wanted to craft you had no choice.

 

But you know what? It was also exhilarating, and if you think that moving cargo is rewarding, you haven't (1) successfully moved cargo right under the noses of your enemies or (2) successfully seized resources you need from those same enemies, to use to make ships to fight them with.

 

I do not know how to teach those other traders how much of the game they're missing.  This may just be another case of "the threat is worse than the execution".  Losing cargo stings but is quickly forgotten.  But for those who have never lost a cargo, the fear of loss can be crippling, much more so than any actual loss would ever be.

 

I love this attitude. I mainly focus on hunting player traders and I know for a fact that they find my fumbling attempts to capture their ships exhilarating. Just last night I tried to intercept a Trader Snow on the US East Coast and got graped very badly... my tactics sucked and I paid for it. The player trader then tried very hard to turn the tables on me and capture my ship - I had to run away like a coward because I was already down to < 20 crew and had no chance.

 

Maybe it's just because I'm so bad, but I routinely find that player traders are not at all "sitting ducks" by any means, and often give me some of the best and most challenging fights I've had in this game. I can't imagine for a second that they don't enjoy turning the tables on me and/or escaping at the last second, when I fail to tag them with a long range shot.

[Slamz]

As soon as someone uses "ITS A WAR!" argument, you know it's time to drop the topic ^^'

 

I would think that Small Battles on the PvE server is literally the game you are looking for and it's already complete. You can supply your shipbuilding needs from nearby and always get the fights you want and there is no "war" aspect, which you dislike anyway.

 

No need to teleport. No need to go very far. No messy "war" to bother with. Just build ships and kill ships. Done. Seriously. Not even being sarcastic. If you don't want a wargame, your completed game is already here.

[Galileus]

I would think that Small Battles on the PvE server is literally the game you are looking for and it's already complete. You can supply your shipbuilding needs from nearby and always get the fights you want and there is no "war" aspect, which you dislike anyway.

 

No need to teleport. No need to go very far. No messy "war" to bother with. Just build ships and kill ships. Done. Seriously. Not even being sarcastic. If you don't want a wargame, your completed game is already here.

 

I see the quality of your arguments stays the same. Ad personam is ideal, it nicely compliments the overall quality.

 

Stay classy.

[Slamz]

I see the quality of your arguments stays the same. Ad personam is ideal, it nicely compliments the overall quality.

 

Stay classy.

 

Well you criticized having to spread out, then said I was an awful person for wanting to keep people together, then complained about my calling this a wargame then accused me of "ad personam" when I suggested you didn't have to play this as a wargame.

 

Is it "ad personam" or "ad hominem" when I think you're just a forum troll at this point?

[Quarios]

We once said here: We consider all features from the 1000th use perspective. After 1000th time if it is fun its a good feature. If it is fun an interesting only first 10 times but becomes boring and bad after 1000th trip its not a good feature.

 

New players always complain that teleport is unhistorical and is crap. Worth-a-buy review confirmed it  - lots of players wrote to us that we should listen to him. But after 1000th travel we agree it could get tedious. But position on the teleport changes once you craft a santisima

 

Lets be honest - shorter teleport makes things a bit better, because after 1000th time of sailing for 30 mins from Cayman to Il-a Vache is not very fun.

 

Teleport with cargo should be removed (but again - we know many crafters will stop crafting because of that). 

But teleport from outpost to outpost could be faster.

 

Just speed up OW speeds, right now its way to tedious to get to the fun parts of the game.

[Fonseca]

Just open a poll about this so I can vote NO.

[Blackjack Morgan]

My only suggestion would be trying something revolutionary in NA developmental history and make a MINOR change. Too many times we go from one extreme to another on stuff....like no port transfers to unlimited transfers between ports...or cheap automated shipping of resources between warehouses to expensive shipments only between free ports....or completely broken overpowered rage boarding to a period of time when it was almost worthless....the list is pretty long and I could go on. The problem is it just seems like a waste of development time and resources sometimes compared to maybe just tweaking things a bit and see how it works. Don't get me wrong I think in the end we end up getting to a good balance but it seems to take a rather long route getting there.

 

1.  I'd say keep 1 daily teleport for captain, ship, and cargo....it allows people to have at least a daily transfer of cargo which I think is fair and certainly not game breaking. I have been capturing player traders hauling goods on a daily basis and that's with a 4h cd. I don't want to make it so utterly painful for traders and crafters that it puts me out of business hunting them lol. They are losing a lot of valuable resources and already pissed at the loss.....keeping 1 teleport to capital is perfectly fine to me.

 

2. Allow teleports of captain and ship without cargo to any warehouse on maybe a 1 to 2 hour cool down. You can do this already by just capping a ship and sending yours to the warehouse you want it at except its once every 4 hours. It's just too long for quality of life in my opinion. Let's try it out....it's a relatively minor change and one that could be introduced quickly. I doubt the impact on things will be game changing but it will make the game a lot more fun I think. 

[Sir Richard Bolitho]

Coming in late to this discussion but must agree that the teleport must be reduced in time. In my clan the current limitation has been a cause for much frustration. The sooner the time duration is reduced the better.

[CaptVonGunn]

Maybe 2 hours but NO to 15 min

[Tyrant]

Take teleport out of game.

 

Allow AI control of ship that will sail my ship while offline to whatever destination I choose and let the AI control my ship in defense if it is attacked.

 

Teleporting goods across map and big ships behind enemy lines is stupid and ruins the game.