Game is bleeding players

[patoWC]

Look at the right side, less players more materials to buy!

[Fluffy Fishy]

I'm not sure how people can worry about 400 being quiet on pve the population during most the day is between 80-120 during gmt hours only surging up to about 250 at weekends. There seems to be a small benefit that the economy is becoming a little more stable but for the most part it seems sad that we are almost down to pre steam levels for a large period of time.

[Long Beard]

As a new player I agree.  I got this game three weeks ago, loved it for 2 weeks then got burnt out on the mission grinding as they are essentially identical and boring.  PvP is just too difficult, you either get ganked, have to sail for hours to find some action, or people just run from you even if I have an equal or even lesser ship.  I went from playing the game daily to not having touched it in a week.  

 

Game has amazing potential but needs content to attract and keep players.  As much as people go on about PVP I think they need to put more focus on PvE,  make some damn missions with some variety and purpose, let us build an AI fleet beyond the crappy 2 cutters, let us build an base/empire, go treasure hunting, etc etc.  Doing endless boring identical missions is not going to cut it.  

 

Yes I realise it's only Alpha but probably won't get into this game until a lot more features/content are in.

 

TBH with ya, I can see how the game would get boring fast if you just focus on missions, or go out looking for solo PVP.  Honestly though, this game, particularly on PVP server comes in to it's own when you have a decent clan behind you. Working together, fighting together, helping the crafters build better ships for the clan, doing group missions etc all make the game much more fun and varied.

I do agree though that in time even that will become run of the mill, but we just have to keep forefront of our mind that it's an alpha game and content will come in time.

 

Just look at Eve online. The game arguably has little content yet it thrives. It's all about the player politics, territory etc. It's got a lot more content now than 'back in the day', but essentially it's still the same.

 

I'm not sure how people can worry about 400 being quiet on pve the population during most the day is between 80-120 during gmt hours only surging up to about 250 at weekends. There seems to be a small benefit that the economy is becoming a little more stable but for the most part it seems sad that we are almost down to pre steam levels for a large period of time.

 

I can understand this. I can't imagine playing NA without the PVP dynamics, excitement,  and politics that go with it. It sure would get mundane fast as besides missions and capturing AI, I can't really see the point.  I do accept that there's a lot of people who are adverse to PVP but honestly, I don't think NA is a PVE game, at least not at this stage in alpha.

[Scrumpers]

Crafter here, my long time clan switched from pirate to france.  I essentially stopped playing because I am gripped by the balls into the Pirate faction by the fact that I will lose all of my blueprints if I move.  Blueprints to me = hundreds of hours of work.

[KrakkenSmacken]

Look at the right side, less players more materials to buy!

 

And less players taking missions to purchase your finished ships, take part in national battles and lose ships, or who can't be bothered to look for mats and pay with a markup. 

 

I watched the PvP2 pirate economy basically go from vibrant and dynamic to completely collapsed in the span since I started (3 weeks).

[Capt. Rice]

And less players taking missions to purchase your finished ships, take part in national battles and lose ships, or who can't be bothered to look for mats and pay with a markup. 

 

I watched the PvP2 pirate economy basically go from vibrant and dynamic to completely collapsed in the span since I started (3 weeks)

Probably didnt help them when they jumped faction several times...

[KrakkenSmacken]

Probably didnt help them when they jumped faction several times...

 

Not at all.

 

Those moves not only screwed the existing pirates, it combined with the predatory neighbors put one of the more "popular to join the game as" groups so far back and made the starting so toxic that I am sure NA is losing new players forever because of it. 

 

I am pretty sure these are unintended consequences, but I think it hurt the whole game in general.

[Capt. Rice]

Not at all.

 

Those moves not only screwed the existing pirates, it combined with the predatory neighbors put one of the more "popular to join the game as" groups so far back and made the starting so toxic that I am sure NA is losing new players forever because of it. 

 

I am pretty sure these are unintended consequences, but I think it hurt the whole game in general.

yea instead of faction starting so close every one kind gets their own corner then expands...

[Hugoka]

I really think that starting city areas need to have zones around them,,,  this can be achieved by having NPCs  of those nations that patrol those waters,,

 

so in this instance, the capital and 5 surrounding ports are heavily infested with friendly npcs, makes it safe for new players to learn the game,,,

 

as distance from home ports increases there are less and less aggressive protective npcs,,

 

as you level increases your missions will move more and more toward neutral or contested waters, cities in those contested waters should be worth fighting over be rich in various and different resources,

 

a nation or faction can never be crushed but it can be contained, at least until a crop of new players level enough to push back the other nations and claim those resources on the cities in contested areas,

 

To make this game work we need to stop trying to look at history,, history didnt end well for most of the players in the Caribbean,  

 

Of course then nations will need to have some national diplomacy system, and each nation of faction must have an unique ability,, british always had better trained sailors and could reload cannons faster than any other nation,  Pirates were fearsome in boarding and had faster ships,, French could drink wine,, stuff the french they get nothing,,  Dutch were great traders,  Sweeds ?? did they even have a navy ??  Spanish must have had something special but i cant think of anything,,  

 

New Crafting system would be much better under this scenario,,  factories built on  high producing locations would need protecting,, overextending a nation would cost dearly if ports with factories were lost,,  but the crafting hours thing for production sucks, as does no xp for notes,, cost also needs to come down to build factories , or production needs to go up,, should require a gold upkeep,, these could be clan owned  buildings too,, 

 

Shipyards should be a Clan construction not one for every individual player, this makes no sense,,  

 

I also want to see a Hall of Fame and Infamy,  and rankings, gold, power, level etc,, something to fight over,,  

 

PVP is great and necessary in this game,, I would be bored senseless on a pve server, however, most pvp fights end with the loss of a ship, and with the cost to produce one decent ship, who can afford to lose a durability,,  I would like to see an arena type situation where pvp can be enjoyed without the finishing kill,,  this would make grudge matches much more fun, and XP from those could be lowered from open world pvp,, 

 

Battle timers need to be open longer,, way longer,,, maybe completely,,  giving allies time to come to aid,  this would also result in more extended PVP battles,,  and once your sunk or escape you then cant go back in,, 

 

Clans need to have a Clan warehouse, and the ability to loan out items , to store clan gold and resources, just like every other game, 

 

So many things can be done,,  

[Almightybob]

I quit playing, the game is just too repetitive and boring for my taste.  Too me it's just a long grind, the game has no depth and even when you factor in the features under development it's still pretty shallow. 

 

I check the forums to see if anything interesting has happened.

[Ruthless4u]

The last thing this game needs is ranks/stats

[admin]

Grind is a problem for some and i think it should be addressed.

There is only one problem that is hard to fix - game is pvp centric and pve was added just to give some players the opportunity to experience combat without interference from others. PvE will always be less exciting.

 

3 things that must be done are

• reduction of thresholds in ranks so people can reach the favorite ship faster and just sail it.
• better events
• more content for clan and national wars 

But in general we are not worried about players coming and going. Its life and people stop playing all games eventually moving on to other things. We see no reason to tie people to the game by artificial chains. And online numbers are not a measure of success - overall happiness of the players is. If the player is happy and not playing the game he is still a happy player.

[edgey the edge]

what ive noticed is when a nation on a server is doing bad, people either move to another faction or change server to where they are winning.

yes some people have left, either on breaks or to play other games but this doesnt mean they wont be back.

a lot of people from various nations have moved from pvp3 to pvp1 either through active poaching ( we will give you ships and gold to come) or due to their side being battered, and recently one big clan left a faction for pvp1 and now another clan from that faction left due to lack of support and such, which in reality has kind of screwed over that faction.

 

i find it quite funny that players are so eager to move to a full server instead of staying on a server and waiting for it to grow, by leaving they have made the reasons they left worse for those who stayed, the factions who have regular steady numbers are the winners, but it would not be hard for the smaller factions to grow, 12-25 dedicated players on a faction can make big differences if they are not afraid of the possibility of loosing ships and they take bold chances.

 

another issue is port timers being set to 4-6am, many excuses abound about "its our night workers" " we have players at that time" yet in reality these ports have no defenders at that time, the abuse of these timers means that players get angry at not being able to take ports and only the people who can muster a force at 4-6am either from unemployed europeans, night owls or americans and such, can even do anything about them being on these timers, this leaves a great number of players without the ability to participate in port raids where the mechanism which was set to defend a port during prime time has been abused, so it is set to a time when player numbers are at the lowest, on pvp3 during a 4-6am raid on multiple ports their was around 40 players in total 2/3rds of these were port attackers.. no defence was mounted! the nation whos ports were set at 4-6am have around 70% of their ports set to 4-6 am and the only ones set to a normal defence time are ones which are out of reach of their enemys ports. frustration at this has lead to many people leaving or just giving up

without port raids you are left with missions and farming xp, people will get bored quickly and the nations who use the dirty move of setting timers to when the server has such low numbers compounds this problem.

[Valetudin Arian]

People will leave but more importantly they can always come back to either check out how the game is going or to scratch an age of sail itch. I think the happiest players atm are the players who have no goals to aspire to, and the payers who are greedily looking at what they can attain at the cost to someone else. Not much in between.

[Lord Vicious]

ppl should stop buy this shit: that  we are testers,  when you pay for a game and they are selling it, we are no more testers,  if you want testers you pay them and you not sell the game.

 

And for sure "testing" game are not sold for 40$ that is a full retail market price

 

This testing thing is a mask that now every sh use even after years of game been released (see heroes and generals lol 4 years still an alpha)  for have a cheap excuse for their game flaws.

 

be smarter becouse i am sick of ppl sayng to others stop complain, is a testing phase bla bla, if you still are in  a testing phase you not sell your product for 40$ you test it you polish it then sell it.   

Edited March 11, 2016 by Lord Vicious

[Lord Vicious]

Grind is a problem for some and i think it should be addressed.

There is only one problem that is hard to fix - game is pvp centric and pve was added just to give some players the opportunity to experience combat without interference from others. PvE will always be less exciting.

 

3 things that must be done are

• reduction of thresholds in ranks so people can reach the favorite ship faster and just sail it.
• better events
• more content for clan and national wars 

But in general we are not worried about players coming and going. Its life and people stop playing all games eventually moving on to other things. We see no reason to tie people to the game by artificial chains. And online numbers are not a measure of success - overall happiness of the players is. If the player is happy and not playing the game he is still a happy player.

 

 

Reducing rank will only make the game easyer, ppl will reach top lever fast, and then drop game becouse you not have enought content, sure you may have lost some ppl cause grind but you not losing others becouse they still grinding, if they where all already rear admiral, the game was already with 50% less ppl becouse there is not much to do

 

 

Instead soft up the game, make a better rank progression, you cut some rank with non sense, they where better in the pre ea expecial gap between captain and flag captain  is too huge jumping from 300crew to 650, where is the 450 rank ? another missing rank is from 60 to 90 crew, maybe put a corvette for such rank so ppl jump faster from ship to ship, feeling better a progression.

 

captain>flag captain is a 50k jump  where you stuck in a trinco all time  

 

 

 

What i not understand dear dev is how you not fixed already stuff like this that we pointed out  6 months ago, like undercrewed abuse of ships for BR.   We even pointed out all the solutions (example link br to % of crew and ship hp ) and yet even in EA you still not fixed this core problems.  Ignoring your testers, and yet claiming we still in test.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Lord Vicious

[C6R]

The game has three big problems right now.

 

The first one is that content is not being pushed fast enough. Like it or not, even if it doesn't amount to much, frequent patches makes players come back and see what's up and takes them away from whatever else they've been doing while not playing Naval Action. It's like a TV channel always playing the same reruns... It gets old fast, even if only one new episode gets out a week, it keeps the audience captive unless the content is terrible.

 

The second one is dare I say the price tag. I'm not saying its not worth it's cost, on the contrary, so far this game has been an extremely good "investment" for me, if I slash the price by the amount of hours I played, I dare say there is no other activity in the world that is better than this on the price/fun ratio. That said, the price tag scares away new players who, because of it, will never get to try the game and realize it's potential, how fun and relaxing it can be, how amazing the combat system is, etc. Basically, the game is currently hiding behind a cash wall. If the price was cut in two right now, I'm sure we'd see that 2-3000 active players mark jump to 10-15k if not more... 20$ is something you can spend without thinking... 40$ you start asking questions, weighting, comparing, hesitating and ultimately not making the move or waiting for a sale, etc... Talking about the average gamer. As good as this game is, if I can grab BOTH Hurtworld AND Rust for the same price, I'm sorry, but you guys aren't even close to being in the game in terms of contents. Lower that price, make a sale, do something, because this kind of price tag in early access is going to kill you.

 

Last but not least, the grind is unbearable for the average gamer. I have lots of friends who play games like 6-8 hours a week tops. Many of them looked at me playing it hardcore for the past weeks and decided to join in on the fun... end result? They didn't even get to level 2 on their first 2-3 days and I never saw them online ever again. People need to feel the progression FAST when they start out... That first 1-10 hours is CRITICAL to capture the interest of players and having the average non-hardcore gamer take 7-8 hours to get to level 2 after failing 2-3 missions that each took 30-45 min to find/try is just bad business.

 

IMHO, everything should be much easier at lower levels and the progression should be faster. I want the average noob that has no clue what he's doing to get to a point where he can buy and sail a fully crewed Snow within 2 hours, including the flumbling around, not knowing how to shoot or sail, etc.

 

Wanna keep the grind for higher levels? Fine... Once anyone pasts the 10-20 hours mark, they either like it or hate it, those that like it won't mind the grind so much.

 

The devs really need to wake up and changing things, otherwise the numbers are going to keep plummeting and we'll end up with a ghost town of a game. 

 

Oh also:

http://steamcharts.com/app/311310#1m

 

There is a clear decline

This man knows what he's talking about.

My first open world test was shortly after they started. I only played around for a little bit then, but wasn't all that interested in that stage of testing. I came back in january interested in seeing what was new, but to my surprise there wasn't alot, though I played for a couple of days. So then I logged on the forums a little while ago thinking that there should be some new content by now, but no.

Back in january I remember going on the forums and reading the old patchnotes, I noticed then that alot of systems were redone or changed and I didn't understand why they did it when the game doesn't have any content, or tools for the sandbox.

So I logged on earlier and read "1st Big content patch" in the dev forum, and got exited. Then I read the notes... crew management, really? They seem to have been tweaking with the combat and sailing since the pvp lobby thing, when it's really not needed. The have felt fine since my first pvp match, anything extra added on that is just bonus stuff and should not be prioritized. Stop making ships and stop changing the instanced combat and sailing mechanics. The open world is what needs work. It's not immersive and there's nothing to do. Ships feel like they are flying rather than sailing, sound is almost non-existent and everything looks the same. <- that's the impression you get 5 minutes into the game.

Normally I wouldn't make a post like this, I would just leave the forum again and maybe check in once in a while to check for progress. But, I feel like NA has stagnated, and I'm afraid it will be in trouble unless the devs wake up.

 

[Ligatorswe]

Well admin has repeatedly said that the aim at the moment is NOT to have many Players. That will come later.

I Agree with what is said about the need to adjust the grind and make gameplay more diversified. But compared to many other games the grind is, and will be, light. At level 8 (comparable to flag captain) you cant get all tanks or airplanes in warthunder or the world of,... series up to that level.

Once the gameplay is developed and made lighter for newbies the grind will feel less heavy than for example the grind in world of tanks.

It is Strange to say but i actually trust the admin.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Ligatorswe

[Aetrion]

Grind is a problem for some and i think it should be addressed.

There is only one problem that is hard to fix - game is pvp centric and pve was added just to give some players the opportunity to experience combat without interference from others. PvE will always be less exciting.

 

Grind to constantly replace ships is worse than grind to earn the right to use them for a lot of people, because the former is something you have to do over and over and over and never actually get past. The XP grind itself wouldn't be so bad either if you'd get something a little more often. It's running into those levels where you don't get anything other than being told you need 5 times more experience now to get to the next thing that really just sucks. 

 

Also it's not really a PvP centric game, it's a clanwar centric game that actually has very little to offer for people who are more interested in general PvP. I think that's kind of an important thing to keep in mind. You're kind of ignoring a huge chunk of the PvP crowd by fostering this ganky clanwar scenario we have going where actual skill at playing the game rarely matters as much as just how many people you're with or how many spare ships you have.

 

As far as making the PvE side of things interesting, I don't think that would be that huge of a problem, the open world side of things just has to actually be a world you explore, not just a series of ports to fight over. Mount & Blade entertains for hours and hours with a very similar format, go from city to city on an overmap, get into fights, earn experience and gold etc. I see no reason why this game can't try to do the same.

 

 

I think it's pretty normal for people to drop out of playing in early access and wait for more features to be implemented. I would just really urge you to be careful not to think that because right now your game only supports the clanwar crowd those are the only people who care about this game. The only reason they are here en masse is because nobody else has anything to do in Naval Action right now.

[Ignatius Magnus]

If the player is happy and not playing the game he is still a happy player.

 

Priceless.

 

Honestly, I am one of those very casual players, which I think is not a rare specimen in this game. Life is a busy place and entertainment needs to be carefully balanced with more important things.

Just think that I may not be playing online, but I am sometimes playing in my mind, thinking the next move/strategy, while taking care of rutinary stuff.

 

My main issue, is that I have difficulty to fully embrace PVP, because I don't want to face the event of bailing out of the game due to rl matters in the middle of some important match. I am pretty sure many people can identify with that.

 

 

Best wishes sailors.

[Long Beard]

 

There is only one problem that is hard to fix - game is pvp centric and pve was added just to give some players the opportunity to experience combat without interference from others. PvE will always be less exciting.

 

 

How about this...

Rather than have dedicated PVE servers for the reason you described above, why not put in a trainee rank that prevents players from being attacked by other players until they reach a certain XP level? This would give folks the chance to get to grips with things before having the world of PVP thrust upon them.

I know this is open to abuse with players using such ranks to scout and spy with impunity, but if that behavior is made bannable, then it would be treated like any other kind of exploit.

Or, you could even have it so new players enter a PVE instance of the game, void of PVP players until they reach the next rank then automatically enter the normal PVP instance. Players could opt to 'skip' this phase and new players who play through it could carry any ships they've bought / captured over.

Just a thought.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Long Beard

[Ignatius Magnus]

^^ that sounds good. Some way to make PVP with PVE live together would be nice I think.

 

..

 

Wild tought: being able to give control of your ship to the AI if you need to be afk. So that you don't piss off (completely at least) your brothers in arms.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Nehaektas

[Capt. Rice]

^^ that sounds good. Some way to make PVP with PVE live together would be nice I think.

 

..

 

Wild tought: being able to give control of your ship to the AI if you need to be afk. So that you don't piss off (completely at least) your brothers in arms.

I world where there is some pve mixed in with all the pvp is nice...maybey like a pve neutral zone where those who wana take a break or they are not in to pvp right away can go and do pve solo or grouped.

[Tindahbawx]

ppl should stop buy this shit: that  we are testers,  when you pay for a game and they are selling it, we are no more testers,  if you want testers you pay them and you not sell the game.

 

And for sure "testing" game are not sold for 40$ that is a full retail market price

 

This testing thing is a mask that now every sh use even after years of game been released (see heroes and generals lol 4 years still an alpha)  for have a cheap excuse for their game flaws.

 

be smarter becouse i am sick of ppl sayng to others stop complain, is a testing phase bla bla, if you still are in  a testing phase you not sell your product for 40$ you test it you polish it then sell it.   

 

If you feel this way why on earth did you buy into a game clearly marked as "early access"?

[victor]

Well admin has repeatedly said that the aim at the moment is NOT to have many Players. That will come later.

I Agree with what is said about the need to adjust the grind and make gameplay more diversified. But compared to many other games the grind is, and will be, light. At level 8 (comparable to flag captain) you cant get all tanks or airplanes in warthunder or the world of,... series up to that level.

Once the gameplay is developed and made lighter for newbies the grind will feel less heavy than for example the grind in world of tanks.

It is Strange to say but i actually trust the admin.

 

In wathunder you can choose from a crapton of different planes and - in era I - ranks, the progression is very fast. Moreover in Warthunder you click Battle and ... bam ... you are in the middle of the action (and in the meantime you grind). In War Thunder they kill you and you do not loose durability or have to buy a new plane.

 

The main risk for NA is that a professional developer sniffs the good businees and decides to invest in making a similar game. Maybe this is the reason why developers want to keep population low, just not to draw too much interest and in order not to burnout its playerbase. But nontheless it's a risky tactics, since abusing of this attitude could lead to a sort oblivion of the game if the flux of new content is too low to keep here the early backers.

 

I logon every day and do a pair of missions, some craft, go out chasing some IA traders and eventually have PVP if I meet some enemy player around. I'm no fan of powerlevelling so I take the game smooth and easy.

 

Point is that the game idea is great, the ship combat and the idea of an inmense map is wonderful ... the developing team is ... small and operates in a world of big fishes.

 

I wish Game Labs the success of CCP with EVE online (and - for this reasons - I suggest devs to look into the early steps of that company in developing that game).