Map Issues

[Seth Seaborn]

Gentlemen,

 

I'm pretty sure it has already been adressed. If not, allow me, to point my finger at the ingame map. 

 

Good to have one. But on this huge, huge map it's pretty easy to get lost. Example: You set your course to a location. After some time you cannot see any shore at all. Fortunately you encounter an enemy ship and tag it. After leaving the battle once again it really is very, very hard to even tell where you want to go now. So... it would be so very helpful to not only see a map but also a little info, where your ship is atm. If you want to make it complicated, don't show the direction the ship is pointing at. But at least spot the position.

[maturin]

This is deliberate. The devs want you to feel alone in an enormous world, and this will often mean getting lost.

Realistically speaking, celestial could get you a decent fix, but only in certain conditions and times of day.

The simplest system would be an automated latitude reading each day at noon, with a vague longitude estimate whose quality varied according to days at sea, officer skill. It would be very accurate when in sight of land and very inaccurate in storms.

[SteelSandwich]

It might be just me, but not always knowing where you are adds to the game experience.

The knowledge of plotting courses as well as travel time are greatly under appreciated, whilst they are vital for easy travel.

 

Not trying to be rude, but from experience i can tell what the next topic will be:

''why cant you plot courses via the world map?''

Followed by:

''cant one of my officers sail towards Port x? whilst i go afk for a bit...

[Prater]

You can get a rough estimate of where you are by looking at the map and paying attention to how fast you are going and for how long.

[Ronald Speirs]

captains had lots of instruments to find their way around, if implementing them to distract us and immerse us further during sailing to pass time and still put us at ease that we have a rough idea of where we are then im all for implementing such tools for more fun, but that can wait as if you pay enough attention and know your navigating then its not to scary, im actually hanging out for the release of the new ships to test

[admin]

We are not planning to add ship position to the map. 

The map itself was a BIG compromise for us. 

[Seth Seaborn]

Fair enough, thank you.

[z4ys]

I like the map. It is so satisfying to plot a curse and to have a perfect landfall. The only thing that would be usefull is the possibility to add color or notes to ports.

What I mean is that the ingame map get some tools so the map can be customized by every captain to create his own unique map.

[Captain Boneboys]

The map itself was a BIG compromise for us. 

I'm using it, so thank you for the compromise, I had some issues while using the user made on-line maps on my 2nd monitor where the game would switch out while in battle leaving me defenseless (stopped playing for that reason).

The only solution I found was to turn off the 2d monitor.

 

Not a suggestion as such but before the in-game map was introduced I was thinking that a fog of war type map would be interesting, the map would be revealed as and when you (the player) explored and discovered beautiful places !

 

Thanks again and keep up the good work !

[St. Vincent]

Not a suggestion as such but before the in-game map was introduced I was thinking that a fog of war type map would be interesting, the map would be revealed as and when you (the player) explored and discovered beautiful places !

 

That could be an interesting solution, particularly as exploration is slated to be a prominent part of the game. You could start with a blank map, and fill it in as you travel. Not even necessarily automatically; I'd enjoy setting out on a charting/hydrographical expedition, taking soundings/bearings/etc to compile my own charts.

[Destraex]

All I want is some tools to actually plot courses on the map. I want to be able to draw lines on it. Rub them out when I am done. That way when I come out of battle I know where I am because I have plotted it on my map.

maybe a compass the one with the two legs. Protractor. And a sextant for fixing position.

[Ftmch]

I agree with Destraex, some basic navigational tools for the map would be great to have and would make a lot of sense to have. A good captain wouldn't just look at the map and change the ships course using just his eyes for measurement. You'd still have to figure out where you are etc. and you can still veer off course of your'e not careful.

 

It would also be nice if you could place your own markers on the map to remember certain things etc. It would also give you something nice and cozy to do while sailing.

 

I also hope that the map will look more like a real map from that time eventually, that would get you into the atmosphere more.

[ObiQuiet]

In my opinion, there are better solutions than having GL/NA developers spend time on map tools.

 

I agree with and acknowledge Destraex' point about keeping the tools to a minimum.

 

The net is full of drawing and annotation tools, most of them free.    The current in-game map, Siegfried's map, and Prater's tdamap.com map are all accurate for navigation over long distances.   Take a screen shot, drop it into your drawing tool of choice (even PowerPoint) and notate away.     Simple lines at fixed angles will give you the bearings you need.   Text boxes and shapes for your notes.  

 

IMO, there is no need to spend game dev time on map tools and note-taking when an overwhelming number of general-purpose tools exist to suit anyone's preferences, budget, complexity, style, etc. etc, with far more variety and features than an in-game tool would ever afford.

 

(I have the same opinion on requests for mini-games and furnished models of the captain's cabin.  Go to chess.com while on passage, or take a video tour of the real Victory.  Let our cherished game developers concentrate on features we can only get from them.)

[Broad_sky]

We are not planning to add ship position to the map. 

The map itself was a BIG compromise for us. 

I suggest you to loot at this post on subsim.com forum threads 

it's all about real navigation mods  based on SH5

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=178277

And for example how it was with SH3

 

I'm sure, you are right avoiding positioning ship on the map. But! 

I'm sure it won't be a cheat if you will add to the map some usefull tools. 

1. Please, allow us to calculate out position approximately. Ok, not all the time, once per 6 game hours. 6 am, 12 am, 6 pm, 12pm for example (migame! More better you do it, more accurate your coordinates. Of course if weather allows)

2. After that I don't need anything except compas dial directly pinned to my mouse position. 

That's all I need for navigation in this game

 

 

[Ned Loe]

Fair enough, thank you.

Set port as your new spawn point. Got lost? teleport home. With time you will know how to build your perfect sail route. 

[Broad_sky]

Set port as your new spawn point. Got lost? teleport home. With time you will know how to build your perfect sail route. 

for that game needs good log journal for players. In your case player can log manually his route with direction and time and current speed in one tab and enter general data in another. Like 100 miles NNE, 250 miles NE and 50 miles directly E.

You can say that I can use papers for that. But I don't want to. It's almost 2016 not 2000.

[planktonette]

for that game needs good log journal for players. In your case player can log manually his route with direction and time and current speed in one tab and enter general data in another. Like 100 miles NNE, 250 miles NE and 50 miles directly E.

You can say that I can use papers for that. But I don't want to. It's almost 2016 not 2000.

 

True, but equally, some degree of physicality increases immersion and can sometimes be easier to deal with than a screen. I've printed some of tdamap just simply so I can lay in a more accurate course than eyeballing on screen.

 

That said, my initial desires after a couple days of testing are for a better compass - the 24 point rose feels cumbersome to use for any sort of accurate headings over time, and I hate to suggest a digital bearing display, so it would be nice if there was a hotkey to push to open a compass popup similar to the map for a better than eyeball course reading.

 

The second thing I really desired was some way to plot my position along a heading based on my time at speed, but unless I'm being really dumb, that seems non trivial outside of the game due to game scale, and non-trivial in game due to the map being non-interactive. Are the game knots * game time passed = real world distance?

 

I agree that it's a slippery slope, but let's be honest, we're not talking about a gps here, but just the tools to perform adequate dead reckoning, either in game or out. Also, it's useful to remember that these ships were not crewed by a single person, but by a complement of men all performing different tasks to allow the captain to make the best decisions possible. I think with very little leap of faith, that could account for say a crew-member on the ship making course and speed logs at given time intervals that can be referred to later to calculate a rough position. Make the player work for it, but at least give all the tools needed to try.

[St. Vincent]

planktonette, your compass suggestion is an excellent one. As you've said, the small 24-point compass is a pain - particularly as it means there are only three rather than four divisions between the cardinal & ordinal points, making it tough to lay a course due NNE! A full 32/64/128-point compass rose, accessible in a popup like the map, would be a great solution.

 

Ideally, I'd also like to see a third popup, containing a sextant - only available at local noon, of course.

 

I'm less enthusiastic about adding any interactivity to the map, even just for the sake of more accurate dead reckoning. I'd be perfectly happy as long as we can confirm that the OW speed and time readouts correlate properly to each other. As for accurately translating that data into your course travelled... just spitballing, but perhaps the game could ship with a high-res printable chart of the in-game Caribbean? Geographical details only, plus grid/scale/compass rose - we could then pencil in course estimates, add in ports and other features as we visit or discover them, etc.

Edited November 16, 2015 by St. Vincent

[planktonette]

 

I'm less enthusiastic about adding any interactivity to the map, even just for the sake of more accurate dead reckoning. I'd be perfectly happy as long as we can confirm that the OW speed and time readouts correlate properly to each other. As for accurately translating that data into your course travelled... just spitballing, but perhaps the game could ship with a high-res printable chart of the Caribbean? Geographical details only, plus grid/scale/compass rose - we could then pencil in course estimates, add in ports and other features as we visit or discover them, etc.

I think, quite honestly, that is the perfect solution. Perhaps also offer a "premium" map kit that is laminated (so that a grease pencil could be used to make erasable marks), and includes a game-scale ruler, 1 game-hourglass, protractor and dividers and suddenly the immersion factor sky rockets, and it becomes more than just a game but also a teaching tool.

 

I also personally find that having the physical map in front of me to refer to or keep helps a great deal with my dead reckoning, rather than having to alt-tab or pop open a map.

[Prater]

True, but equally, some degree of physicality increases immersion and can sometimes be easier to deal with than a screen. I've printed some of tdamap just simply so I can lay in a more accurate course than eyeballing on screen.

 

That said, my initial desires after a couple days of testing are for a better compass - the 24 point rose feels cumbersome to use for any sort of accurate headings over time, and I hate to suggest a digital bearing display, so it would be nice if there was a hotkey to push to open a compass popup similar to the map for a better than eyeball course reading.

 

The second thing I really desired was some way to plot my position along a heading based on my time at speed, but unless I'm being really dumb, that seems non trivial outside of the game due to game scale, and non-trivial in game due to the map being non-interactive. Are the game knots * game time passed = real world distance?

 

I agree that it's a slippery slope, but let's be honest, we're not talking about a gps here, but just the tools to perform adequate dead reckoning, either in game or out. Also, it's useful to remember that these ships were not crewed by a single person, but by a complement of men all performing different tasks to allow the captain to make the best decisions possible. I think with very little leap of faith, that could account for say a crew-member on the ship making course and speed logs at given time intervals that can be referred to later to calculate a rough position. Make the player work for it, but at least give all the tools needed to try.

 

 

I wish we would get a compass like that as well.  We need a large 360 degree pop up compass.  Someplace on these forums I and others give ideas of a sextant mini game to get a rough position.

 

 

The second thing I really desired was some way to plot my position along a heading based on my time at speed, but unless I'm being really dumb, that seems non trivial outside of the game due to game scale, and non-trivial in game due to the map being non-interactive. Are the game knots * game time passed = real world distance?

 

If you use my map or Siegfried's map they are made to in game scale.  I have been trying to develop an outside interactive map.  I may release what I have.

 

1 in game knot is actually roughly 1km per minute.  Yes, I know it doesnt make sense but that is basically how it is.

 

 

 

Here is what I played with tonight:

I've added a bunch of plugins to Leaflet to allow me to 1. Draw text on the map, and place journey routes that are measured in KM and give the bearing.

Remember, if you keep track of your bearing and your average knots over the course of so many minutes, you will be able to figure out where you are roughly. The knots value given in game is equivalent to KM PER MINUTE on my map.

So if I leave St. Nicholas heading 270 degrees (due West) at 5 knots for 10 minutes, I will travel 50km on my map. If I then turn North to 0 degrees at 15 knots for 15 minutes, I travel 225 km. If I then change course to 315 degrees going 8 knots for 5 minutes, I go 40 more km, if I then change to 15 degrees and travel at 20 knots for 1 minute, I go 20 km, and then if I turn to 330 degrees and go 10 knots for 1 minute I end up at Salina Point.

 

Explanation:

I don't know if I like it. It is rough, but it might be useful.

[planktonette]

1 in game knot is actually roughly 1km per minute.  Yes, I know it doesnt make sense but that is basically how it is.

 

1km per in game minute, or real life minute?

[Prater]

Real Life minute.  1 Game Minute is about 0.8 Real Life seconds.  Good luck keeping track of that

 

 

Also, forgot to mention, that the bad thing about not having a large 360 degree compass is that you have to estimate your heading if not on a tick. 

[Captiva]

Thanks, Prater! I use your map all the time. Do you have an updated map that includes the recent changes of certain nation towns to free towns, etc.?

Edited November 17, 2015 by Captiva

[Prater]

I think Obi is working on the port map still.  Our process for updating the port map has changed and is no longer automatic but has to be done manually and that is why there has been a delay.  I need to finish South and Central America for the drawn ports.

[Captiva]

Thanks, I'll look for the update.