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Wouldn't it be better to have cheaper DLC ships and make them tradable/capable??? Requin is 12 euros but imo 5 euros for a ONE  time redeemable ship that can be traded or capt would be better for the overall game. Its like DLC weapons in battlefield. I always loved the way you could pick them up but not use them at the start of the round. Having a ship non capable breaks the combat system big time. You cannot swap ships in battle and take the one with better health. I know this is a problem for people that bought the dlc already but I think its a huge flaw that should be looked at sooner than later before more people buy it.  

Edited by HachiRoku

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so youd rather have a handfull of people buy 100s of 1 dura hercs to roflstomp everyone else? and / or sell it for ingame gold (as you want them to be tradable) ?

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13 minutes ago, Liq said:

so youd rather have a handfull of people buy 100s of 1 dura hercs to roflstomp everyone else? and / or sell it for ingame gold (as you want them to be tradable) ?

well, the ship will still need a nerf if she is as op as everyone says she is. I don't know because I have yet to sail her. It is better to have ships tradable and what difference would it make? There will always be a handful of people to own it but at least others will have a chance to capture one. 

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One dura dlc's is what the sandbox guys want too. I would never buy a one off thing, but I'll empty my pockets for permanent things... Maybe that is an answer?

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Current DLC model is fine.  They are premium ships that are significantly better than anything closely resembling counterparts and quite frankly they should be.  I think the requin needs to become more fragile and as in IRL, it should suffer cruelly under heavy cannon fire (especially crew loss).  I think the timer needs to be more than 24 hours also and NO premium ships in fleet.  

I'd also draw the line at allowing them to enter PBs.  

NO DLC SHIPS IN PBs EVER!

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6 hours ago, Christendom said:

NO DLC SHIPS IN PBs EVER!

+1 +1 +1 +1 +1 !

I spend the week-end in trying to get PvP, with my British account. KPR / Belize are the right places for that. I got a single interesting battle. All others spoiled by Xebecs.

A fight vs a Xebec is for sure no fight. I explain:

  • Either the Xebec have not 100% chance to win ==> he will run without any chance to others to keep him in fight.
  • Or the Xebec has no chance to lose the fight. He will attack in a PV0 fight (Player vs Zero chance to win).

So, at least put that shits out of PB's. Or equip the Motar Brigs with a nuclear missile DLC (you clic on a port on the map, and 20 mins later, the port looses the fight whatever the forces in presence).

The Xebec could be improved by:

  • Add an in-built 60% marine advantage for the Xebec (I noticed that boarding an L'Ocean gives a chance to the 1st rate to wind, which is abnormal in Xebec-Action).
  • Deny the Determined Defender against a Xebec. (Why refusing PV0?)
  • Add an In-built Determined Defender for the Xebec (due to bad smelling of such overcrowded ships, no sailor wishes to board, even fully drunk)
  • add a couple of 22" long range torpedos at rear of the Xebec, in case of Xebec being obliged to run downwind, giving a fleet of 25 Fir/Fir full speed fitted Princes a chance to get it (and sinking a Xebec is fully abnormal isn't it?)
  • Replace the 2pd guns at the front by 68pd long guns (in built, free, and authorized on Xebecs only).

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8 hours ago, Christendom said:

Current DLC model is fine.  They are premium ships that are significantly better than anything closely resembling counterparts and quite frankly they should be.  I think the requin needs to become more fragile and as in IRL, it should suffer cruelly under heavy cannon fire (especially crew loss).  I think the timer needs to be more than 24 hours also and NO premium ships in fleet.  

I'd also draw the line at allowing them to enter PBs.  

NO DLC SHIPS IN PBs EVER!

Its not the model that bothers me. It is the way dlc ships limit combat. The more dlc ships added the bigger this issue is... Let's say I'm ganked and I am almost sinking, now I have the chance to pull a dlc ship and cap it with some luck. I'm still fucked because that ship is game breaking. Just imagine a dlc port battle ship fleet vs non dlc. Even if the ships were 100% balanced, one side would have the huge advantage of having unusable ships... How often has swapping ships saved you a pb? For me at least a dozen times. That is a MAJOR flaw in the combat system that only I can see for some reason....Honestly infinite ships for 12 euro is a joke imo.... I mean no matter the cost its still game breaking.... 

Edited by HachiRoku
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1 hour ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

The Xebec could be improved by:

  • Add an in-built 60% marine advantage for the Xebec (I noticed that boarding an L'Ocean gives a chance to the 1st rate to wind, which is abnormal in Xebec-Action).
  • Deny the Determined Defender against a Xebec. (Why refusing PV0?)
  • Add an In-built Determined Defender for the Xebec (due to bad smelling of such overcrowded ships, no sailor wishes to board, even fully drunk)
  • add a couple of 22" long range torpedos at rear of the Xebec, in case of Xebec being obliged to run downwind, giving a fleet of 25 Fir/Fir full speed fitted Princes a chance to get it (and sinking a Xebec is fully abnormal isn't it?)
  • Replace the 2pd guns at the front by 68pd long guns (in built, free, and authorized on Xebecs only).

 

😂😂🤣🤣😂

 

 

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Dlc ships should be 

8 hours ago, Christendom said:

NO DLC SHIPS IN PBs EVER

Then why have dlc? This cannot work. There is no reason for them to be op. 1 time redeemable would fix that but then it's still pay to win right? Even if they are not allowed in Port battles, what about events and pvp?? 

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Sandbox has its own eco operational level.

DLC Collector's models should never be mixed with the sandbox.

This being said DLC Collector's models should never follow the same "crafting RNG" rules and be aways the standard quality.

 

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I'd suggest to search for the solution the other way round: make DLC ships and/or contents also purchasable with PVP or victory marks.

P2Win becomes pay to speed up progress: if you buy the premium content you have an easier access to a content that is available, but with some effort, also to the ones that do not pay.

It's a model that a lot of MMO free game use.

 

Edited by victor
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NA is not a free mmo. Is a pay once, access everything. DLCs are Collector's DLC ( similar to Expansions for paid MMOs - elite, guild wars, etc )

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Just now, Hethwill said:

NA is not a free mmo. Is a pay once, access everything. DLCs are Collector's DLC ( similar to Expansions for paid MMOs - elite, guild wars, etc )

Sorry but this does not sounds to me like a good answer. Can you tell me why my solution would not work without using pure nominalism?

PS (I was too anodine in my answer): the model of a game in early access is not set in stone, it depends on how developers decide to fund the development. So I guess that NA could be just everything the devs will decide it to be and that they deem to be good for going on in the development.

 

Edited by victor
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NA is a one time purchase. Not a free to play game.

The DLCs are purchasable items that can be used in game, say similar to items that can be purchased in other games.

Example - safe Containers in Tarkov - Collector planes in IL-2 - ships in Star Citizen - class specializations / skills in Guild Wars, etc.

All of these are not free to play MMOs. But still they have plenty of DLC content for the aficionados.

Does it make it more clear as a comparison ? It is items one CANNOT get in the game by any other means.

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2 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

NA is a one time purchase. Not a free to play game.

The DLCs are purchasable items that can be used in game, say similar to items that can be purchased in other games.

Example - safe Containers in Tarkov - Collector planes in IL-2 - ships in Star Citizen - class specializations / skills in Guild Wars, etc.

All of these are not free to play MMOs. But still they have plenty of DLC content for the aficionados.

Does it make it more clear as a comparison ? It is items one CANNOT get in the game by any other means.

And there are no restrictions on collectors planes in il2, they can do anything that other planes do

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Just now, PG Monkey said:

And there are no restrictions on collectors planes in il2, they can do anything that other planes do

Only restriction is on the timelines used for the online wars. Models from 1943 cannot be used in 1941-1942 scenarios :) 

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Just now, Hethwill said:

NA is a one time purchase. Not a free to play game.

The DLCs are purchasable items that can be used in game, say similar to items that can be purchased in other games.

Example - safe Containers in Tarkov - Collector planes in IL-2 - ships in Star Citizen - class specializations / skills in Guild Wars, etc.

All of these are not free to play MMOs. But still they have plenty of DLC content for the aficionados.

Does it make it more clear as a comparison ? It is items one CANNOT get in the game by any other means.

the comparison is clear, the fact that you have decided once for good which is the funding model of NA does not convince me, since - as I said - if devs, during these two years - have changed the game from arena to open world and, then, from simple MMO to hardcore sandbox, they can also change the way to fund the game.

I have the impression that since YOU personally like the actual model of game/funding, you use the argument of what the game "IS" as if it was a good argument in discussions about what the game "should be" to make it appealing to more potential players. But it is not.

Edited by victor

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I'm a cold bastard. Meaning it has nothing to do with what I like or not.

When comparisons arise we must look to all sides of the sphere, not only what we like, personally.

The mirror works fine.

 

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16 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

NA is a one time purchase. Not a free to play game.

The DLCs are purchasable items that can be used in game, say similar to items that can be purchased in other games.

Example - safe Containers in Tarkov - Collector planes in IL-2 - ships in Star Citizen - class specializations / skills in Guild Wars, etc.

All of these are not free to play MMOs. But still they have plenty of DLC content for the aficionados.

Does it make it more clear as a comparison ? It is items one CANNOT get in the game by any other means.

Tell me. Do those dlc ships literally break the combat? 

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7 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Tell me. Do those dlc ships literally break the combat? 

Yes, as I posted in the feedback thread :), but that's not the OP subject ( being the subject the acquirable outside of DLC method )

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39 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Yes, as I posted in the feedback thread :), but that's not the OP subject ( being the subject the acquirable outside of DLC method )

The topic is about the combat aspect. I don't really care much about pricing. I still have my first herc and you probably know I wouldn't spend a dime on a shallow water ship :) I hope GL adds loads of DLC ships after release. Normally I'm not in favor of DLC before release but considering when I bought the game 3 years ago when nowhere near the current amount of free ships were promised,  I won't complain and expect them to give me unlimited free content. I think other things should be complete first but it that's another story. I thought the herc was the only ship this applied to when released so I didn't bother. Does this mean there can be no dlc 1st and 2nd rates? Just imagine how game breaking that would be...maybe larger vessels could be 1 time redeemables.  Unlimited redeemables does not feel good and yes I am aware they will not be able to sell them well then. I don't know but how often can you redeem? Anyway as long as you are not able to cap a ship the combat system is broken period. That's all I care about. 1v1 a dlc ship and only one side has something to loose. It's broken... 

Edited by HachiRoku

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For 1 time use only the price should be < 1/10 of what is is now, but then it should be possible to capture and trade the ships.
But I'm not sure changing the deal like that, when players have already bought the dlc expecting the get the ship for life is acceptable..

I would accept and like that they do something like this for paints. So I can pay real money for a paint scheme that can only be used 1 time. But the cost should be low! Less than 1 euro and the paints should also be available ingame somehow. But as long as we get paints back some how I'm happy.. 

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6 hours ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

+1 +1 +1 +1 +1 !

I spend the week-end in trying to get PvP, with my British account. KPR / Belize are the right places for that. I got a single interesting battle. All others spoiled by Xebecs.

A fight vs a Xebec is for sure no fight. I explain:

  • Either the Xebec have not 100% chance to win ==> he will run without any chance to others to keep him in fight.
  • Or the Xebec has no chance to lose the fight. He will attack in a PV0 fight (Player vs Zero chance to win).

So, at least put that shits out of PB's. Or equip the Motar Brigs with a nuclear missile DLC (you clic on a port on the map, and 20 mins later, the port looses the fight whatever the forces in presence).

The Xebec could be improved by:

  • Add an in-built 60% marine advantage for the Xebec (I noticed that boarding an L'Ocean gives a chance to the 1st rate to wind, which is abnormal in Xebec-Action).
  • Deny the Determined Defender against a Xebec. (Why refusing PV0?)
  • Add an In-built Determined Defender for the Xebec (due to bad smelling of such overcrowded ships, no sailor wishes to board, even fully drunk)
  • add a couple of 22" long range torpedos at rear of the Xebec, in case of Xebec being obliged to run downwind, giving a fleet of 25 Fir/Fir full speed fitted Princes a chance to get it (and sinking a Xebec is fully abnormal isn't it?)
  • Replace the 2pd guns at the front by 68pd long guns (in built, free, and authorized on Xebecs only).

I was down by belize yesterday doing some PVP in the requin.  Snagged a solo frigate, managed to chase down a Tlyx going 15.3 knts upwind and then jumped in a safe zone battle with helped spain sink an ocean  (we didn't make it out of that one....).  The ship is stupid OP, but it definitely is fun.

5 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

Dlc ships should be 

Then why have dlc? This cannot work. There is no reason for them to be op. 1 time redeemable would fix that but then it's still pay to win right? Even if they are not allowed in Port battles, what about events and pvp?? 

I think Hethybaby said it perfectly.  The DLC ships should compliment the sandbox, not disrupt it.  Once we start allowing full fleets of DLC ships in PBs the game truly turns the corner from the grey area P2W we currently have into full blown play to win conquest.  This I'm firmly against.  It makes owning the DLC a necessity, not just a luxury.

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21 minutes ago, Christendom said:

I was down by belize yesterday doing some PVP in the requin.  Snagged a solo frigate, managed to chase down a Tlyx going 15.3 knts upwind and then jumped in a safe zone battle with helped spain sink an ocean  (we didn't make it out of that one....).  The ship is stupid OP, but it definitely is fun.

I think Hethybaby said it perfectly.  The DLC ships should compliment the sandbox, not disrupt it.  Once we start allowing full fleets of DLC ships in PBs the game truly turns the corner from the grey area P2W we currently have into full blown play to win conquest.  This I'm firmly against.  It makes owning the DLC a necessity, not just a luxury.

Well. As long as you cannot cap the ships they are p2w in Port battles. In normal pvp one could argue they are "only" pay to not loose because who cares about sinking if they are limitless. You always talk about rvr. Broken ships are broken in general and not only in pb..

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