Balancing gank vs. revenge

[mikawa]

Captains, my proposal:

We have to balance the gank vs. revenge problem:

1. Everyone should have the ability to stop when necessary
a. in case of heart attack or serious personal incidents
b. in case of job affairs - your boss says you have to stop playing now
c. in case of sleep loss since weeks - your eyes close automatically at sight of your job computer

2. Everyone should have a good chance to earn some profit when
a. managing breaking the enemy lines and tagging a lone trader
b. defending own port against a bunch of enemies
c. rising hostility

3. Everyone should have the opportunity to help when
a. friend is attacked near own coastline
b. trader calls for help
c. rising hostility

Solution(s):
I. Increase battle timer slightly from 3 to 5 min to OW.
II. In capital near battle let join as long as battle lasts (very risky for attacker but he knows anyway and he can still flee)
III. After quit of BS give opportunity to quit game (teleport to friendly town as we hab before) but prohibit then sailing out for 5 hours, grey out "sail" button (means he can craft & collect mats but is not allowed to sail in OW because he has decided to quit for today) and inform all ships waiting outside battle that enemy ship(s) has(ve) fled to nearby port (so no useless waiting for revenge fleets)

 

[Pada]

5 minutes ago, mikawa said:

3. Everyone should have the opportunity to help when
a. friend is attacked near own coastline
b. trader calls for help
c. rising hostility

Bring back signaling perk that allows entry of 1.3 or 1.5 times the BR for the inferior side. With this you can help and can get more ships in the battle then the attackers if they gank.

Even or slightly uneven fights are the best thing about this game. With 1.3 or 1.5 times the BR all can have a nice fight that is not unfair for anyone. Good players still can defend themselves and win or escape or you die fighting. Everything is better then get crushed by a fleet you can't see waiting outside ready for you to come out. Revenge fleeting is just lame for all sides and it has to stop. 

 

[Corona Lisa]

10 minutes ago, mikawa said:

1. Everyone should have the ability to stop when necessary

100% agreed.

11 minutes ago, mikawa said:

Solution(s):
I. Increase battle timer slightly from 3 to 5 min to OW.
II. In capital near battle let join as long as battle lasts (very risky for attacker but he knows anyway and he can still flee)

This is terrible, it punishes players who look for PvP and means more ganking.

 

Biggest problem in my opinion is that losing a ship causes a lot of frustration. Thats why noone wants to risk losing his ship and only chooses "safe" fights with the odds in their favor.

But thats boring.

This could be solved by making ships up to 5th rates super cheap, so it doesnt really matter if you sink. You try stuff, you can yolo around, you can take challenges and if you sink its okay. You can get a new ship easily and go out and fight again.

[Hethwill]

When a fifth rate can, potentially, bring down a National "treasure" ship of the line you must rethink that approach.

You have the right assessment just not the scenario in place. 

( NA is a web, touch a string and you must follow the thread and change a lot along the way )

[Raekur]

18 minutes ago, mikawa said:

1. Everyone should have the ability to stop when necessary
a. in case of heart attack or serious personal incidents
b. in case of job affairs - your boss says you have to stop playing now
c. in case of sleep loss since weeks - your eyes close automatically at sight of your job computer

III. After quit of BS give opportunity to quit game (teleport to friendly town as we hab before) but prohibit then sailing out for 5 hours, grey out "sail" button (means he can craft & collect mats but is not allowed to sail in OW because he has decided to quit for today) and inform all ships waiting outside battle that enemy ship(s) has(ve) fled to nearby port (so no useless waiting for revenge fleets)

 

Pertaining to section 1 - If any of these reasons are factual, then you have and issue with being responsible and taking care of the things in your life that you should be more mindful of. This game should not take priority over your relationships, job, or health.

Pertaining to section III - This will not work as well as you may think, the way around it would be the creation of alts to play while the one account is on cool down. The teleport to port was a option that was available a while back but it put the game more towards quick raids and hit and run tactics instead of actual pvp. With the current exit speed boost and invisibility it is fairly easy to disengage if you think about how you want to run. It would be just a matter of correctly guessing what direction your enemy is going to go, and pick a different direction.

 

[Bragan Benigaris]

About solution II: Why? If you increase timer from 3 to 5 mins that should be enough time for any defenders to grab their ships and enter battle. Don't forget you're already in the vicinity of the capitol.

About solution III: Better a similar solution like invisibilty now,  than a 100% safe teleport to port. With the first one, you could balance the chances of raiders and defenders, the latter is a sure win for the raider...

 

 

[Vernon Merrill]

In order for some one to "win"... someone else has to "lose"...  fact of life. 

The mental part of "losing" is much easier to deal with if the "loser" feels like the loss isn't completely devastating. 

Cheaper access to ships and, for the love of God, PLEASE GET RID OF MODS.  

All they do is make people think that they cannot effectively PvP without having them.  Silly. 

[jodgi]

4 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

MODS.  

All they do is make people think that they cannot effectively PvP without having them.

And they're right. You can PvP with anything... but effectively? I admit my motivation suffers terribly under the money, mark and loot drop grind for mods. It is a self inflicted pain because I want to fight smart and not stupid.

11 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Silly. 

How extremely diplomatic of you.

[Teutonic]

10 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

 

Cheaper access to ships and, for the love of God, PLEASE GET RID OF MODS.  

All they do is make people think that they cannot effectively PvP without having them.  Silly. 

Yes, cheaper ships indeed. I was someone who wanted 1 durability, but assumed the ships would go down in cost. When that didn't happen, the desired effect we were hoping for....well it didn't happen.

In alm honesty, i think we need to go back to multiple durability, at least in that time more people pvp'd. And we wojld be abke to recover from losses easier.

When it comes to mods, most ships i own actually do not have any mods or just 1 and it is still just as effective as others. Although, I do think knowledge slots were a nice change from the "modules" we had before.

[mikawa]

17 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

PLEASE GET RID OF MODS

Please please please! Ships have its own advantage & disadvantage. Shooting skill should matter not the most precious upgrade! Maybe give a slight advantage of better skill when sailing a ship longer than opponent but only slightly. Player skill should be the fact that wins a battle.

[Demsity]

1 hour ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Biggest problem in my opinion is that losing a ship causes a lot of frustration. Thats why noone wants to risk losing his ship and only chooses "safe" fights with the odds in their favor.

But thats boring.

This could be solved by making ships up to 5th rates super cheap, so it doesnt really matter if you sink. You try stuff, you can yolo around, you can take challenges and if you sink its okay. You can get a new ship easily and go out and fight again.

You can almost get them for free on the OW, now that AI ships can be captured

[Vernon Merrill]

55 minutes ago, jodgi said:

And they're right. You can PvP with anything... but effectively? I admit my motivation suffers terribly under the money, mark and loot drop grind for mods. It is a self inflicted pain because I want to fight smart and not stupid.

How extremely diplomatic of you.

True.  But hunting with even one buddy will EASILY negate any mod that you've just spent either 15 hours or $1 million gold on...

 

 

and diplomacy was never ever my strong point.  (Makes for less guess-work)

Edited August 10, 2017 by Vernon Merrill

[Skully]

24 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

Yes, cheaper ships indeed. I was someone who wanted 1 durability, but assumed the ships would go down in cost. When that didn't happen, the desired effect we were hoping for....well it didn't happen.

Lets not forget some issues that have relatively inflated the pricing of ships:

1. Removal of AI production
2. Unable to put contracts in enemy ports
3. High cost of shipyards
4. High cost of outpost slots
5. Removal of captures (I consider a bad thing now back in play)

In essence the effort of working the market has become higher and thus ships more expensive. The one-dura and increased effort also induced another negative: too much attachment to a ship.

I must admit, I can now happily sail a captured 5th into battle, because it takes low effort and zero price to obtain one.

So lets take this 5th and see what casual players would do with it.

2 hours ago, mikawa said:

I. Increase battle timer slightly from 3 to 5 min to OW.

Won't join unless the fight is a win. Ergo organized groups benefit the most.

2 hours ago, mikawa said:

II. In capital near battle let join as long as battle lasts (very risky for attacker but he knows anyway and he can still flee)

Won't join unless the fight is a win. Ergo organized groups benefit the most.

This may seem to be not true, but we have proven over and over it is in fact true.

The organized group that doesn't have the balls to do this will simply sit at the edge of any green zone. Again the casual has no chance.

2 hours ago, mikawa said:

III. After quit of BS give opportunity to quit game (teleport to friendly town as we hab before) but prohibit then sailing out for 5 hours, grey out "sail" button (means he can craft & collect mats but is not allowed to sail in OW because he has decided to quit for today) and inform all ships waiting outside battle that enemy ship(s) has(ve) fled to nearby port (so no useless waiting for revenge fleets)

Gank and free ticket. Ah yes, needs an alt to continue playing. I can say something about organized groups here, but I guess everybody can see the pattern.

Keep it simple. Mechanics can't beat organization, only players can.

[Hethwill]

Just now, Vernon Merrill said:

True.  But hunting with even one buddy will EASILY negate any mod that you've just spent either 15 hours or $1 million gold on...

Repairs "break" the entire perfect imbalance when above 1v1. They exponentially grow out of proportion to the assets at play.

Also
 

Quote

 

All modules to be options on the ship crafting. Instead of 2 dropbox as we have , why not have more and each can be a specific choice for each part of the ship ?

Then the full model requirements are calculated according to options