Puchu Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Right now the ships are structured like hollow balloons. Once the armor is down on one side, you cannot do any more damage to that side. Thinking of a real ship, there would never be any circumstance, where you couldn't do more damage to an alrdy damaged side. You would allways want to keep hitting the damaged side. With full broadsides, that is. This current model leads to 2 behaviours which are both historically incorrect. 1. Once the armor on one side is down, you need to suppress the repair by shooting single shots into that side. If you fire your broadside, allmost all your shots will be wasted and disappear into the great undamageable black mass within the ship. 2. If the rear armor is gone, you basically become invoulnerable on the back (especially witht he surgeon, but thats another topic) Here again. Rearraking a ship would cause massive internal structural damage. That damage is currently totally neglected. I think that it would be a good thing to actually have hull and armor separated. The more down the armor is, the more dmg the hull would take. This is not meant to be the hp bar of the ship, since the ship sinks by taking water, but the hull dmg should have some effect. I think it does matter, if you ship is all torn up from the inside or not. What do you guys think about something like that. It just feels strange right now to only have armor and no structure underneath. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Comery Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 That would be too easy. A person could just create a hole below the waterline of a Santi in a cutter and sink it. With no armour it would be one hit kill city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puchu Posted August 8, 2015 Author Share Posted August 8, 2015 Sry, if it was misunderstandably worded. I want armor + an hp bar for structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hussar Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 you're right o.p. there is a black hole , more obvious when raking ... i think a 'structure' bar visable or not would be a reasonable addition to test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaleMemes Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 That would be too easy. A person could just create a hole below the waterline of a Santi in a cutter and sink it. With no armour it would be one hit kill city. One hole below the water line would take weeks to sink a santisima. And crew would rapidly fix it up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DazednConfused Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 For the completely stripped side (hp wise), i would suggest that if you continue firing on that side you get heaps of leaks - above and below - maybe some kind of cumulative thing so if you focus a side it becomes unmanageable fast. For stern (and plz plz bow) if you strip the hp off there should be two consequences for the guy getting raked; 1. Once stern hp is stripped crew is easily killed (and wounded - for the surgeon to rep). killed DO NOT GET REPLENISHED, wounded can be bought back to health through surgeon/ surgeon buffs. 2. Guns have a significantly higher chance to be taken out than other firing angles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Thing is, wooden ships are hollow balloons. There are no internal structural components there to be damaged. If you look at pictures or go on board a replica, all you will see are small numbers of rather thin poles that support the decks. Knocking those down would certainly affect the structural integrity of the ship, but you wouldn't notice until a storm came along. There is also no "undamageable black mass" inside the ships. It's just that shots penetrating a hull with 0% planking integrity still have loss momentum on the way in, and are unlikely to strike the opposite bulwark with much force. Shot is also likely to strike the deck itself, which probably has no hitbox for damage purposes. However, it it silly that we have no reason to shoot at 0% HP broadsides. Perhaps once you reach 0% planking integrity, further hits should start dismounting guns automatically, since the hull is so smashed that the breechings of the carriages are coming out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfire Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 (edited) I have completely stripped more than one ship of all armor it had , zero showing and even after repeated broadsides it still fought for 8 more minutes till I rammed it in the bow then it sank or in other cases more than one ship had to repeat hit it to the point we started asking what's going on why is it not sinking. I agree the armor is gone the hull should be next 2 separate damage gauges should be a help. 32 and 24 longs hitting at point blank range should go right through the no armor zones and hit the opposite side every time Edited August 8, 2015 by Dragonfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 There is no such thing as armor. The armor is the hull itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromey Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 I thoght shooting hull with no armor left creates lots of holes which water enters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfire Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 (edited) Fine then planking. Guys i play with say armor and i think it could of been figured out that adding extra planking to a ship was the same as adding a coat of armor to it sorry i should of been more correct and specific. If i shoot every bit of planking off your ship it should not continue to sail or fight it should sink immediately so if the gage says you have no more hull then what in the world is keeping your ship together and floating you have no ship then . Edited August 8, 2015 by Dragonfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Fine then planking. Guys i play with say armor and i think it could of been figured out that adding extra planking to a ship was the same as adding a coat of armor to it sorry i should of been more correct and specific. If i shoot every bit of planking off your ship it should not continue to sail or fight it should sink immediately so if the gage says you have no more hull then what in the world is keeping your ship together and floating you have no ship then . Use your eyes. The hull is still there on your screen, even with 0% HP. It's just been damaged to the point where water seeps in. So you have to continue punching holes in it even at 0%. It doesn't magically go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 When I shoot at no armor sides, the other side's HP bar starts coming down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puchu Posted August 8, 2015 Author Share Posted August 8, 2015 if armor = hull, then armor = 0 means hull = 0 hull = 0 means that side is GONE. Ship with one side gone would flip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 if armor = hull, then armor = 0 means hull = 0 hull = 0 means that side is GONE. Ship with one side gone would flip. You can't be serious. Do you see any ships being bisected in this game? It's just a number. It's an abstract assessment of integrity. When the military says that a wounded soldier is 80% disabled, did you really think that meant that only 20% of his body is still left? A head and shoulders sitting on a hospital bed? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johny Reb Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Its a mistranslation of the mechanic employed. Its hard not to think of the sides as armor when so many other games have trained us to think that way. Alternately, it may be better to think of the status bars as the quality of the seams. The planks havn't disintegrated, the seams have just been worked loose enough to allow water to rush in. Its not a perfect analogy i know but it is better than thinking of the sides as armor. When the seams are reduced to 0 it is not worthless to shoot that side. You just have to be more exact. You can still create water line holes which are more dangerous then the other value anyways. Aim low and create leaks and watch him sink quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puchu Posted August 8, 2015 Author Share Posted August 8, 2015 Here's the thing... ppl are saying different things left and right. Maturim, my example was to illustrate how invalid the perception "armor = hull" would be. If the bar we have now is in fact hull hp, then it should probably be impossible to ever get it down to 0 since that would require the hull on one side to be blown out of existance. But if the bar we have now is not hull hp, what is it then? if it's armor, then there is ofc something underneath that can still be shot and damaged when the armor is down. Right now that is not existant. Atm it feels like the bars are just some arbitrary bars, that show that something is going down. Imo it can be either hull or armor, but in both cases, it needs a change to make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsafer Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Lets keep it simple shoot bad guy till one side is gone he sinks that is all that really matters at the end of the day stop trying to making it more complex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromey Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 canons go thru and damage other side of armor when its low but I feel that the canons should create alot more leaks when they hide side of hull with low armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BungeeLemming Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Why would cannons do more leaks on weaker sides? Its not a question about penetration is a question of where you hit. If you manage to hit under the waterline. then theres a leak. No matter if full or low armour. About this proposal: hell no. We have flooding which can be held back pretty easy with the right mods. And if you disengage too late its purely your own fault when you flood too fast __ What devs always say: the side "HP" are no HP at all. its armour status. 0 - 100% condition. When your armour is wek you are damaged within your ship's internal structure and the planks start to leak temselvs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puchu Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 so what happens when your armor is 0 and you get shot on that side? the bullets disappear? they dont hit the planks anymore? i dont get how that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 They create more leaks (maybe not enough w/respect to the damage [points] done previously). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BungeeLemming Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 when you managed to get one side down to low or even zero % integrity you overpenetrate and hit the other side which will take quite a lot of damage. This effect is getting quite big once you have your enemy at under 50%. Grapeshot will penetrate like the sides were made of butter. Which makes the crew very vulnerable. Leaks will only be generated if you hit between wind an water. Which results in a leaking hole once you heel over. Or sink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Comery Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I think that something is wrong with the Lynx armour. After it hits zero it stays afloat for about 5 mins despite being hit from every side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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