AwkwardDavies Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Tonight near the end of the game I had a player on the other team making ... well, comments about my play. I thought at first he was joking, so laughed it off. Turns out he was serious, and made it clear in the 'tween games chat that I was an idiot and a bad player and didn't know what I was doing; and to top all I was rude and inconsiderate. Why? Because I didn't give up. He was mad that the game went 10 minutes longer because they had to chase me down. I spent my time running, then jigging to fire into the pursuers, then turning the other way and shooting my pursuers. I'll grant you that I was totally outclassed by the three on the other team. And I was the last one alive on my team. But this user really wanted me to just give up and let them kill me to save time. Now, I thought the game timer that bumps the game out after an hour was there because games could last that long. This one was around 35 minutes I think. And I did mention to this player that he could have dropped out if he was tired of chasing me and drop into another battle. That didn't help. So, what's the consensus? Did I screw up by fighting to the end, or is that the point of the game? If it's considered rude to fight a losing battle by the majority of respondents I'll change my play. Thanks for your input! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furfy Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Was on a team once with a player who refused to quit, he was the last alive. He kept running and peppering the enemy when he had the chance and was gaining as time went on. I found myself rooting for him for having the tenacity to hang in and fight smart rather than charge and die so others could move on to the next game. So no, I don't think you did the wrong thing - you did what you wanted to do, try and survive and bring damage to the enemy. I'd stand you a drink for such action. In open world, people won't be in a hurry to charge in and get blown away, i wager.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysion Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Depends. Were you actually doing meaningful damage to the enemy? A lot of people just run for no reason and simply waste everyone's time, this is bad form. However if you actually had a shot at killing one of the three remaining enemies by maneuvering in that way then id say go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William the Drake Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) The crowd from PotBS (Pirates of the Burning Sea) has coined the term "kiting" to describe the tactic (or any similar therein) that you employed. The short answer? Both yes and no. The issue and legitimacy of kiting has long been discussed and argued among the PotBS crowd. Much like ramming here, it is generally frowned upon. But, also like ramming, it is a valid tactic. Considering that the game currently just combat instances, it is probably more frowned upon since kiting just delays the game and survival is not an issue. However, when open world and ship-loss enters the game, the tactic of kiting will most likely find much more merit and practitioners. If nothing else, you practiced the exact tactic that an outgunned yet faster ship would have employed in the real-life equivalent of the situation. A coward would have simply run. A fool would have charged headfirst into destruction (albeit heroic, not exactly smart). You on the other-hand identified the fact that you were outgunned, yet faster than your opponents, and played their weakness against them. Your assailant's ire was most likely a result of this realization. Not only did you fight, but you fought smartly. Edited March 9, 2015 by William the Drake 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 It's poor sportsmanship, in my book. If you really have no hope of victory or even getting in that last consolation kill, don't drag a battle out. Just stand and fight so you can go out in a blaze of glory. Now, if the enemy were catching you anyways, no one can blame you for jigging back and forth the way a leeward player needs to, so as to avoid being mobbed. But if you have a lone fast frigate that is the last survivor, facing several SoLs or damaged enemies, wasting everyone's time pointlessly sniping is just rude. There's nothing at stake and nothing to gain, so why delay the inevitable and piss everyone off? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwkwardDavies Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 Depends. Were you actually doing meaningful damage to the enemy? A lot of people just run for no reason and simply waste everyone's time, this is bad form. However if you actually had a shot at killing one of the three remaining enemies by maneuvering in that way then id say go for it. Yeah, I was hitting them okay, and one of them was nearing the danger level on armor. I wasn't simply running, I was running and fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwkwardDavies Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 It's poor sportsmanship, in my book. If you really have no hope of victory or even getting in that last consolation kill, don't drag a battle out. Just stand and fight so you can go out in a blaze of glory. Now, if the enemy were catching you anyways, no one can blame you for jigging back and forth the way a leeward player needs to, so as to avoid being mobbed. But if you have a lone fast frigate that is the last survivor, facing several SoLs or damaged enemies, wasting everyone's time pointlessly sniping is just rude. There's nothing at stake and nothing to gain, so why delay the inevitable and piss everyone off? Thanks for your response. I'm curious though...since as has been mentioned, there's nothing at stake yet but the battles, what do you think of someone dropping out if they didn't want to see the end? At least at this point in the game, one can quit a battle and start a new one immediately. That's what I would have done if I didn't want to wait for that last fighter to go down. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Thanks for your response. I'm curious though...since as has been mentioned, there's nothing at stake yet but the battles, what do you think of someone dropping out if they didn't want to see the end? At least at this point in the game, one can quit a battle and start a new one immediately. That's what I would have done if I didn't want to wait for that last fighter to go down. What do you think? Leaving your team is poor form even if victory is assured. And people want to see their damage. I tend to stick out and see a battle through even if I have sunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I think as long as you are firing upon the enemy it is ok. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windy Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 If nothing else, you practiced the exact tactic that an outgunned yet faster ship would have employed in the real-life equivalent of the situation. A coward would have simply run. A fool would have charged headfirst into destruction (albeit heroic, not exactly smart). You on the other-hand identified the fact that you were outgunned, yet faster than your opponents, and played their weakness against them. Your assailant's ire was most likely a result of this realization. Not only did you fight, but you fought smartly. Ive been in this situation a couple of times, last ship afloat, and yes I will stick it out and try and kill them before they get me.[so No you didn't do anything wrong]. In open world, people won't be in a hurry to charge in and get blown away, i wager.. Stand and fight, when I can run if out gunned, YOU BET, ill run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim DeGrim Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) While it is certainly not against any rules, my personal opinion is that prolonging the inevitable with a hopeless kite in a match is not courtesy play. You could squeeze out as many damage points with a headlong charge and double shot. Why plink away with ball at extreme range to only drag a match out 10 more minutes as players anxiously await the finally scoreboard so that they might "GG" each other between matches? Again, if it is about the damage... you can score more with double and a headlong charge - and be back into another match getting more points and "GG's" in no time EDIT: I'll add that I don't know the circumstances of how your match went precisely... ship match ups & etc ... if it were a leeward kite & fire... not implying you did wrong or were in-courteous. However, that is my stance in relation to how you've worded the poll. Edited March 9, 2015 by Grim DeGrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chustler Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 As far as I'm concerned, if there is a reasonable chance of victory and you are actively fighting the enemy, then you are fine. If Victory is highly unlikely, and you are holding a whole bunch of people there waiting for it to end, then it is rude and inconsiderate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrezesOi Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) The crowd from PotBS (Pirates of the Burning Sea) has coined the term "kiting" to describe the tactic (or any similar therein) that you employed. The short answer? Both yes and no. The issue and legitimacy of kiting has long been discussed and argued among the PotBS crowd. Much like ramming here, it is generally frowned upon. But, also like ramming, it is a valid tactic. Kiting in NA and Potbs is totally different for one reason - endless amount of repairs in PotBs versus just 3 (3 too much by some of hard-core players) in NA. In effect, kiting in Potbs was closer to griefing than tactic. But here in NA? Kite for demasting until enemy squadron is like powerless tuttlepack, is one of the best way to win battle. Horse archers vs blind elephants. Edited March 9, 2015 by PrezesOi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johny Reb Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I agree with Maturin and Hustler, I think you were in the wrong unless you actually thought you could sink someone. Yes its a game with the purpose of winning and causing the most damage and being on the leader boards but when a fight is lost is serves you better from a game standpoint as well as the relationships and reputations you form in game to not drag it out. What I do personally in that situation is run until I know I can escape or not. If I can escape than i can confidently turn around and allow the match to end quickly knowing that if it had been the open world I would not have lost my ship. By doing this you gain the appreciation of the team that won the match and you will be seen as a good sport. That team is not gonna leave because they want the credit of the win. They did win even if you get away. So, asking them to click out is a cheap and unsportsmanlike like way for you to win the match when you didn't deserve to. The name calling towards you was probably uncalled for if you were at least fighting them in your own way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johny Reb Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Also, think about the wasted time for you. I can complete an PvE match in 10 minutes easy. If you drag your pvp match out 20 minutes kiting then you are loosing out on efficiency of progress. When your kiting (especially against bigger ships) then you aren't doing much damage because of penetration values at range. In a pve match in a small ship I can do at least 2500 damage a round so 5000 damage in the 20 minutes it will take you to do maybe 500 by kiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouse of war Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 It's bad form to let your team down by quitting while the issue is still at stake. However, when that moment has long passed then I do what I want. Fight on (a glorious death), run for the border (go inform the rest of the fleet), quit (surrender to save your crew from a pointless death). Each to his own and each to his inclination at that time. If the last enemy ship is just a dot on the horizon I may chase him but I might also say 'good luck to him' and disconnect - what's at stake? A few points shared with my team mates? Anyone who wants those points so badly can chase but they'll probably get more points faster by quitting and joining another game. And 'cowardice'???? in a computer game? Really??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5KnuckleChuckle Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Don't think you did anything wrong here. I agree with Prater that as long as you were fighting, firing on the enemy, then keep up the good work and play your way. Too bad for them if they have to work for it. However, if you were running for the ring to timeout the match I would think differently, a gutless tactic which wastes everyone's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admaa Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) From another topic that was of the same topic (http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/4238-runners/), If they're in a frigate, they have every right to run/kite, in my opinion. I would find it tiresome to sink them, but at least they'd be using the ship to its best capabilites.. if you understand my logic here, using speed and manouverability (thinking for survivability), instead of tanking damage which they're not really supposed to be doing. (Not thinking for survivability) If the person was just sailing away, without thought for fighting or w/e then I'd be mad.If in open world, I'd just be unhappy I missed a chance to steal some cargo, or to sink a privateer for another nation. Would also alter how much damage I'd do to sails/masts if it became a big issue. Edited March 9, 2015 by Admaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I think you did the right thing.....as long as you keep trying to do your best and are not just running away and doing nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwkwardDavies Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 Why plink away with ball at extreme range to only drag a match out 10 more minutes Sadly, I was never at extreme range. I was taking on water and my pumps couldn't keep up unless I was on 'Survival'; therefore, spending half my time on 'guns' to facilitate loading and half on 'survival' to keep from sinking, and the fact that the other ships were in better condition, I didn't get far enough away to be considered 'extreme range'. Wish I had! I might have been able to hit them at distance and not die before them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathaniel Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I join the others - if you had a credible chance of sinking at least some of your pursuers, that would be a valid tactic. Otherwise it's legit, but plainly uncourteos, inasmuch as you should be able to acknowledge your defeat if you think it enevitable. Especially since we have neither open map nor ship loss. But even then it shouldn't be possible to disengage easily for gameplay's sake. I applaud you however for bringing this topic out for discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwkwardDavies Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 ... causing the most damage and being on the leader boards ... ... if it had been the open world I would not have lost my ship. By doing this you gain the appreciation of the team that won the match and you will be seen as a good sport. That team is not gonna leave because they want the credit of the win. They did win even if you get away. So, asking them to click out is a cheap and unsportsmanlike like way for you to win the match when you didn't deserve to. Thrree points here: I'm not sure how the leader board works as I never refer to it; but it matters not a whit to me. Not saying it's bad if it does, I just have never had it on my 'radar' (if such an anachronism is allowable ) The second thing is a gripe I have about not being able to strike colors in the event you are completely hoplessly outmatched. There have been many times I'd have done so to stop the 'effusion of blood', but it's not allowed. Sad, that. As for 'clicking out': I generally stay once I'm dead, because I'm interested in how the battle goes (unless I'm stupid enough to die in the first few minutes, then I admit I cut my losses and run). My suggestion that he could have clicked out was based on the fairly clear fact that I had little chance to win. He'd have lost nothing by leaving. But that may come from me knowing just how bad my ship was handling...I assumed everyone knew I must be half full of water and struggling. Probably not, now I think on it. Thanks for your response! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas aagaard Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 If you actually had a change to win, then fine. (I did in one game win against four others... I had the "premium" ship and the others where rather new players in other small ships.. they had a hard time hitting me) Other wise you where just wasting their time. Now when we get to the point where loosing you ships have a "cost" then sure do what you can to survive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim DeGrim Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Sounds kind of "awkward" to me If there is no hope in winning the match, why not charge in with double shot? What is gained by prolonging the fight in a chase? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim DeGrim Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 As for 'clicking out': I generally stay once I'm dead, because I'm interested in how the battle goes (unless I'm stupid enough to die in the first few minutes, then I admit I cut my losses and run). My suggestion that he could have clicked out was based on the fairly clear fact that I had little chance to win. He'd have lost nothing by leaving. But that may come from me knowing just how bad my ship was handling...I assumed everyone knew I must be half full of water and struggling. Probably not, now I think on it. By clicking out, he loses is the option of finding out "how the battles goes" and celebrating a good fight with both opponent & teammate - which includes bemoaning scoreboard & etc as a group. These pleasantries are spoiled with a pointless chase typically only ended one the chasee runs out of room at deathmatch border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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