>>>Core Patch 1.0 Feedback<<<

[TheRealJostapo]

Thought I'd throw yet another, impossible to kill CL out there for everyone's enjoyment.

[Fangoriously]

AI behavior after the latest patch. This CA immediately goes into full retreat

of this CL

but, it was actually different this time, improvements where made.

So, it ran, and not even in a way that it could angle any main guns at me at all, guns that at medium to short range could wreck a light cruiser like this in short order, My guns being next to harmless against him. i've concluded that if the AI sees torpedoes it simply goes PRIORITY OVERRIDE, NEW BEHAVIOR DICTATED, MUST BREAK CONTACT WITH SCARY TORPEDO ARMED SHIP. It was content to run as it lobed behind it it's small supply of torpedoes through its pair of triple launchers, pointlessly because i had nothing better to do then watch for this exact thing wile the AI was doing its best to make the battle last as long as possible.

When suddenly it did something I did not expect. With no torpedoes left it suddenly turned around and closed to point blank to do what it should have done in the first place, attempt to gun me down with extreme prejudice. Was barely able to torp it down before i flooded out, even my basically invisible electric torps were insta noticed and nearly all expertly dodged. I'm concluding now anything but fast torps are pointless to use against the AI, the sneaky torps exist just for the AI to use effectively against the player.

[Littorio]

On 12/14/2021 at 1:53 PM, Kiknurazz91 said:

Patch v99 bug with placement of towers, turrets, barbettes etc. They hover over the deck when placed in custom battle mode.

 

On 12/14/2021 at 2:00 PM, Nick Thomadis said:

We will fix that. Thank you.

Can you share an image? If you delete your save and make a new design, does this issue happen?

 

I have seen this too with Italian ships in the custom designer. Floating components that is...If I see them again I will screenshot.

 

10 hours ago, Norbert Sattler said:

As part of a campaign mission I was defending a convoy and my transports had multiple 76mm turret2 inside their middle superstructure.

I don't know whether they could have fired, since I didn't let the enemy get close enough.

I have seen this as well. Those guns DO fire as on can see the smoke from them and be hit by projectiles coming out of the hull itself lol. @Nick Thomadisare there any plans on fixing guns inside TPs? (Unless they are secret Easter Eggs for Q-ships against submarines lol)

 

6 hours ago, Skeksis said:

IMO visibility mechanics are just fine. Currently battle gameplay is very good.

Battles require alot of attention to locate the enemy while invisible. Players have to ‘think’ and make far more command choices before even seeing the enemy and then afterwards as they pop in and out of visibility. This immersers the player with emotions of apprehension, mystery and the hunt, including relief of escape (when visibility is actually working in their favour). Battles are far more interesting.

I understand players ‘hate’ being torp at point blank range but the upside of this is for the player to overcome that adversity, ditto for blind-firing.  

Any nerfing of visibility ranges would reduce the current complexity/adversity, dumb down the game. Knowing where, when and what the enemy is doing would be a mistake! IMO.

Nick has stated in the suggestion post that spotting will be readdressed once weather and all the time visuals are done:

"Regarding the spotting mechanics, we need to wait for the new environment graphics for different weathers. The current weather modifiers which affect spotting distances, were perceptually working without the issues you are having. For example, when the weather had heavy fog on a stormy sea (in our internal testing with multiple weather types) it worked fine. Ships were not appearing so suddenly as now in clear weather situations. We need some time to perfect this mechanic according to weather differentiation."

Then we can continue to endlessly debate this. But in the meantime, @Skeksis@RedParadize@akd@DougToss@Danelin Aruna and anyone else I may have forgotten, I suggest we suspend our discussions on spotting until said time as the above-mentioned has occurred.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Littorio

[RedParadize]

@Littorio Don't drag me back into this, I quoted the very same message from Nick just last page... and have been my opinion since page 30. I must not be the only one that found that hole discussion was extremely unpleasant. Just for that reason we should really move on.

[Littorio]

2 hours ago, RedParadize said:

@Littorio Don't drag me back into this, I quoted the very same message from Nick just last page... and have been my opinion since page 30. I must not be the only one that found that hole discussion was extremely unpleasant. Just for that reason we should really move on.

I didn't see, apologies. I was just trying to include the people I remembered. I look forward to waiting for the weather updates.

[Danelin Aruna]

32 minutes ago, Littorio said:

I didn't see, apologies. I was just trying to include the people I remembered. I look forward to waiting for the weather updates.

i concur

[o Barão]

New patch update feedback.

The AI it seems it lost the fear in being attacked by torpedo.  Not sure if the decision in making the AI easier to be killed is good for the gameplay. Also didn't helped the AI the fact my ships spawned 4km away from the BB.

This is a BIG issue. In this battle the AI was tunnel vision the entire battle to sink my CL. Didn't matter if my CAs was very close to them they never target the CAs with the guns, however they tried to use the torpedos. Also this 2 enemy CLs had the speed advantage, and could try to disengage, but they never did and remained in battle. It seems the AI lacks the capability to understand the power balance during the battle and to make the decision to retreat from the battle if they have the speed advantage.

 

Improvement suggestion

If we focus to sink the defenders in a convoy battle. The battle wil end but the transports are not sunk?

The game engine should sink the transports, to simulate the fact the transports where unprotected and being attacked.

I know is not a perfect solution, but seems more logic to have this approach instead what we have atm.

So in a convoy battle where the player is the attacker two possible solutions will be available for the player:

A :  Try to sink the transports and run away.

B :  Try to sink all the defenders to sink the transports.

 

[Norbert Sattler]

I just had a rather bizzare situation.

1890 campaign as Germany. Because I didn't want the campaign to end just yet, I ended up scrapping most of my fleet to allow the Brits to live and mothballed the last 5 ships. Now neither Germany nor Britain have ANY active ships.... and yet there are still transports being lost? oO

Also the "Naval Blockade" that Germany started with a whooping single CA and 2 CLs still continues now without any ships active and a power projection of 0 to 0.

Even weirder the Brits neither built and new ships nor went bankrupt, so I quit the game and looked in the save file.... and they had a ridiculous amount of money.

After starting the game up again and loading the campaign, they immediately layed down multiple ships at once.

Which resulted in them starting a naval blockade against me (with a single TB)... but my naval blockade still being in place. So now we are both blockading each other oO

I find it a bit ridiculous that you can start a naval blockade on the enemy with a single torpedo boat if the enemy has no ships. There should be an absolute minimum number for ships that can do a blockade.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Norbert Sattler

[akd]

3 hours ago, o Barão said:

This is a BIG issue. In this battle the AI was tunnel vision the entire battle to sink my CL. Didn't matter if my CAs was very close to them they never target the CAs with the guns, however they tried to use the torpedos. Also this 2 enemy CLs had the speed advantage, and could try to disengage, but they never did and remained in battle. It seems the AI lacks the capability to understand the power balance during the battle and to make the decision to retreat from the battle if they have the speed advantage.

Are they not defending a convoy in this case?

[o Barão]

Just now, akd said:

Are they not defending a convoy in this case?

Yes they did defend the convoy. They stay on relative paralel course to my fleet,  in the middle protecting the merchants.

I don't know if it was the AI intention or not or just a coincidence. But was nice to see.

The issue was since the battle started they always focus on my CL that was far away when they had CA near.

 

However, maybe it wasn't a bad decision. This CA design is heavily armored with 25cm Krupp I in the entire lenght. The enemy cruisers had only 3% chance in penetrating the armor so maybe the game calculations are set to ignore and focus in the target that can be killed? And they tried to use the torpedoes against the CA. So maybe they were doing the right thing. The issue can be another thing. Not the target  priority, which i can understand why the possibility in this situation, but the fact the AI when is focus in one target failed to understand how bad is their position in the battlefield if taking into account the distance to other targets.

 

In the situation below, the enemy BB was trying to disengage from my torpedo attack , but sadly it was then forced to turn towards my ships, trying to avoid a torpedo attack from a friendly. Didn't worked very well and was hit by the friendly DD.

However this situation is very rare to happen.

 

I did more battles today to see how the AI behaving in the battlefield, and in general i can see an improvement. Ships trying to disengage only with heavy damage as an example.

 

However i still see situations where an enemy DD division gets close , then turns around to disengage but maybe because is doing a tight turning, doens't have enough time to aim and launch the torpedos? Maybe needs a new variable in the code to force them to sail in a paralel course to the target, to launch the torpedoes first before trying to disengage.

[DieHard_BR]

All,

 

What is with the economy now? Just started a german 1930 campaing, in 6 month both me and AI already received additional funding two times. I am not going crazy and the focus (crew, tech) just transports I have the max. 

[Skeksis]

16 hours ago, Littorio said:

I suggest we suspend our discussions on spotting until said time

Well @Littorio, sorry but you know I think you couldn’t be more wrong.

I think the “Player Suggestions – December” thread is about Dev’s planning next year’s road map, setting out what new/current features to be worked on.

If you don’t post your feedback now it won’t be included in their decision making process.

I urge everybody to post their feedback now, don’t wait 6 months since that will be too late.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Skeksis

[Littorio]

32 minutes ago, Skeksis said:

Well @Littorio, sorry but you know I think you couldn’t be more wrong.

I think the “Player Suggestions – December” thread is about Dev’s planning next year’s road map, setting out what new/current features to be worked on.

If you don’t post your feedback now it won’t be included in their decision making process.

I urge everybody to post their feedback now, don’t wait 6 months since that will be too late.

I think we've all said it pretty clearly by now and they should be aware of our positions. Personally I can be content knowing that weather and the accompanying visuals are being worked on. Nick said that backgrounds are currently randomly generated, with no connection to the supposed effects we receive in battle. Once this is finished, hopefully we can return to spotting debates.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Littorio

[Fangoriously]

  The British 1930 campain I just finished was Super rough fundswise. The upkeep and repair costs are ludicrously high, I could barely support a fleet of 10 ships and had all funding sliders to 0 the whole time. Ended up losing over 50 transports but somehow killed enough capital ships to cause a revolution.                 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Fangoriously

[RedParadize]

1 hour ago, Fangoriously said:

  The British 1930 campain I just finished was Super rough fundswise. The upkeep and repair costs are ludicrously high, I could barely support a fleet of 10 ships and had all funding sliders to 0 the whole time. Ended up losing over 50 transports but somehow killed enough capital ships to cause a revolution.                 

There is many early 1920s hulls offer comparable capacity (accuracy etc) as the later ones at a fraction of the cost. Additionally, most perks that appear post 1910 are ludicrously expensive and should not be used. I prefer to stick with piston engines, Krupp II, no citadel and level II torpedo defense... I even do not fully upgrade the rangefinder.

Sadly, AI use all the upgrades. Resulting in hyper expensive BBs with only armour of only 12 inch on the main belt and 5 on the rest.

Edited December 16, 2021 by RedParadize

[Tomas MacMoragh]

just a question,  is there a way to Refit ships with new equipment?

 

[Nick Thomadis]

6 minutes ago, Tomas MacMoragh said:

just a question,  is there a way to Refit ships with new equipment?

 

This is going to come with one of the next updates.

[Morderian]

so far as a sneak peak into the campaign i like it, but there are some smaller issues for me:

- the more or less random teching while ok is from a Admirality simulation perspective a bit flawed when it come to guns especially as i cant for example give the directive ok we use 305mm guns as our standard caliber so my dear gun manufacturers pls Improve it and no i dont need 400mm+ guns as they are too heavy for example

- you cant use old model weapons when designing ships which in some cases is forcing you to use smaller caliber as for example i had the bad luck of getting more modern calibers in my 1890 germany campaign and was forced to use small calibers on my heavy cruisers as the bigger ones in the modern turrets could not be mounted on the frontal plattform

- casemattes are far too heavy they weight more then the twin gun turrets of the same caliber which is a bit strange when you consider that they do not have the weight from 2 guns and also no large turret drives etc.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Morderian

[Norbert Sattler]

Will the issue of copies of templates not having access to technologies unlocked after the template was made also be fixed?

Not having to redesign the ship from the ground up just to add the latest, just researched rangefinders or higher-mark turrets would save a lot of time (and frustration).

[o Barão]

New update feedback:

The negative:

Im my first two attempts, the AI spawned so close to my ship that i was getting hit by torpedos in the first seconds. I had to alt+F4 and restart the game to try again. In one of them, my CA started the battle inside the enemy fleet, surrounded by DDs.  Is an issue with the starting position distance that needs some tweaks.

The positive:

AI pursued my ship without mercy.  Coming from all sides, only switching positions when the damage was significant. They didn't give a chance and i lost my ship. I really liked what i saw. A BIG +1 for the AI behavior.

[Lastreaumont]

I had a similar engagement last evening. 10 german DD ambushed my britain BC at short range. 
Luckily the range wasn't as short as your's (maybe because I played a 1920 campaign), so I had enough time to start an evasive manoeuver to dodge the torpedoes swarm. 
But after this very hot beginning, it became a turkey hunt for my BC which sank the majority of the DD. 
I agree about the good point for the AI behaviour: very agressive in the beginning to try to take advantage of the spawn situation and start to retrait when realize the target was a bit too strong. 
I liked playing this destroyer ambush, but I think it can become very frustating with too disadvantageous spawn situation. 
 

[Agathos]

After last patch i noticed that occasionally ships won't shoot there target. In a 1 BB vs 1 BB mission, i hat to manually retarget every 2-3 salvos so my ship keeped firing.

Another thing, sometimes to UI elements for targets and direction (red lines, green line) kinda disappear under the waves as if the sealevel suddenly is above those UI elements.

 

About AI: AI still seems to cheat somehow. The amount of hits the AI gets compared to me is way out of proportion to the displayed and calculated hit percentages. This doesnt really make battles feel good, as it gives that sense off fighting against the mechanics not the AI. This is especially pronounced on hard difficulty. If it is intended, it should be explained somewhere.
Also the tendency of the AI to just turn the back to my ships makes them extremely hard to sink. I have had enemy ships that literally had all there sections red or yellow and they still keeped afloot for ever.

About campaign: I have played to British and now in a 1910 campaign. Sadly the research part is all but unnecessary in the way the campaigns currently works. To win a campaign the decision made prior to the first round in the ship designer and fleet building is the only thing that really counts. If you do not build good ships and buy a heck of a lot of them, you will inevitably lose transports. If you do properly design and buy, you win in about 6-8 month. So research and budget decisions are all but useless.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Agathos

[Toby]

@Nick Thomadiswhen are we likely to see new factions for the campaign as i cannot proeprly test technology devlopment or longetivity of other features until the campaign allows me to play for longer then a couple years at most

[Nick Thomadis]

10 hours ago, Morderian said:

- casemattes are far too heavy they weight more then the twin gun turrets of the same caliber which is a bit strange when you consider that they do not have the weight from 2 guns and also no large turret drives etc.

The casemate weight measures not only the raw weight but also the consumed space needed for placing a casemate gun. Casemate guns occupying large portions of the sides of the ship, with their enclosed armoring should be counted as extra weight. 

1 hour ago, o Barão said:

Im my first two attempts, the AI spawned so close to my ship that i was getting hit by torpedos in the first seconds. I had to alt+F4 and restart the game to try again. In one of them, my CA started the battle inside the enemy fleet, surrounded by DDs.  Is an issue with the starting position distance that needs some tweaks.

We will improve the campaign distances. There must be an error somewhere.

1 hour ago, o Barão said:

The positive:

AI pursued my ship without mercy.  Coming from all sides, only switching positions when the damage was significant. They didn't give a chance and i lost my ship. I really liked what i saw. A BIG +1 for the AI behavior.

AI will continue to be improved. It helps to know not only its bad but also when it is good. Thanks.

[o Barão]

9 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said:

We will improve the campaign distances. There must be an error somewhere.

AI will continue to be improved. It helps to know not only its bad but also when it is good. Thanks.

For me having a great AI in battle is very important for my gameplay enjoyment, and in general is very positive the changes in the last patch.

 

A few more runs, and my feedback.

AI being ambushed by DDs:

The positive:

The AI is trying to run away in a angle so it use more guns against my ships.

The negative:

Since i know the AI goes into tunnel vision mode, i detach my DD and send him in a course slight to the right.  This makes the AI to maintain the angle but now is sailing in a course that is easy to be intercepted by my others DDs.

The negative:

The moment the AI "knows" there is a "new" DD very close to him is already too late.

 

Convoy attack.

The positive:

- All merchants, tried to runaway from my ships at the same time , ignoring the line ahead formation. A BIG +1 improvement.

- The enemy DD in the area tried and managed to sink one CL in a torpedo attack at close range. +

The negative:

- There are a 4 DDs squadron in the back that never tried to get close and attack my ships.

- It seems the AI is waiting for me to get the victory message to start chasing my ships? I had to use my DD to distract them for sometime to let my CL runaway.

 

And last, 4 vs 3 CA battles.

The positive:

The AI didn't had torpedoes and had fewer ships. They tried to keep the distance at medium ranges. +1

The positive:

The moment the second CA got flash fires , the AI understood that wasn't going to win and it was time to runaway to fight another day. This is very good. +1