Fangoriously

love the shell overhaul. Not only does it make things more realistic, it better balances the game as there is no clear best type, and every shell type has a niche its the strongest at. I never agreed with moders and game devs that say you can have realism or balance, that's a skill issue, this definitely has both. light shell accuracy is very strong under 10k, due to being practically direct fire but very unlikely to hit past 20k. standard is a good upgrade to a light shell build as tech advances and ranges increase and you don't want to have a gun fight in torp range. Both are good on a ship with subpar stability that have to fight close in. Heavy seems better balanced for pre-radar assisted long range gunnery, and super heavy is great for when your ship is advanced enough to have gun fights at 20k-40k. Before I always defaulted to light shell for better range and accuracy with less volatility, all thing you otherwise would need to spend a lot of tonnage to compensate for, now that's mostly turned on its head! Good call on arcade down to just 2x multiplier, did some 1950 testing and it came down to a mater of rate of fire, constant long range hits were guarantied. Had my ~1920 campaign battleships running light shells that had a literal 100% main gun accuracy at 6k vs another capital ship, was about to drop back down to realistic to see how it was. all really great changes 👍

Ah, those max speed setting are in 'ship types' too, I didn't notice that you had adjusted those in any patch notes, I've just been re-aplying my own verson of that to each update for a wile now with the old max speeds from the stock game. Sorry about that confusion.

I just forgot to re-apply the English file that's all. big agree on "modern" hulls unlocking too soon. As early as 1927 you can have most of them, no hull with the word "modern" in its name should be unlocked before 1936. YES! exactly, that my reasoning for running 1 tweeked file with your mod. Without any of those treaty limitations, why set a hard limit at Panzerschiffe 11in guns? You can build battleships with 20in guns, that's far more out there. That other ship game, wows, its got numerous ships considered cruisers with at least 12in guns. here's a French cruiser with 13in https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Marseille British cruiser with 3 dual KGV 14in turrets https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Defence there's even a Russian cruiser running German 15in? https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Sevastopol This is why i have heavy cruiser main guns set from 8in-14in. Sure this is all fantasy, but so is this game, and the hard limit here is up to 20in gun BBs. Frankly, in this game, if you want to build treaty tonnage and gun heavy cruisers, you should use light cruiser hulls that have 8in guns as the max size, and let the heavy cruiser type of ship be these big gun, big ton treaty violator super cruisers. But my original point in all of this, with that "modern heavy cruiser 2" being unlocked in my campaign in 1919, with 1922 as the research unlock year, is that that hull is generations more advanced than anything else that floats at the time, that's the only part here that's the problem. After checking the custom battle selection though, it looks like its sort of intended that way, to a degree. After 1934, a ton of other Japanese cruiser hulls rapidly unlock. Its a weird lineup, first in 1922 you go from awful pre-dread armored cruisers to this engineering marvel, do nothing for a decade, then add a bunch of other unique cruiser hulls. A "modern heavy cruiser 1" also gets unlocked in 1925 which further makes me think this was supposed to be a ~1932 ship, not 1922. Getting maxed out speed on this hull, and a TON of other hulls in the stock game and this mod, is as simple as reducing the beam slider, no editing of any files has been done by me, you overestimate my ability to tinker! On that Japanese hull, a beam of -7.4 to -9.0 will allow you to max the speed bar before the HP requirements start to go exponential. And again, that is the case on a TON of hulls, in EVERY faction. pretty much any hull with a hull form above 100 and a "max speed" of ~35knots can go up to 40 knots plus before costs and weights go exponential. A low engine efficiency is powerless at that point to effect you much, you're still blowing the doors off anything cruiseing along at ~30 knots. Even if it takes twice as long to reach a top speed of 48 knots, you still get to 35 knots faster than a 35 knot ship with 300% efficiency can get to 35 knots LMAO. Plus turbo electric drive has +200% acceleration, the funnel and it's capacity are just for show lol. By all means change all of this to be more realistic though, its kind of fun to run these massively OP speed ships, but I am also primarily drawn to realism.

In 1919, I can build this lol. Not sure how mk1 eyeballs looking though coincidence 3 at most is gunna come up with firing solution against this thing streeking across the horizon at 48 knots 😎 I didn't think this was a part of the mod, but wanted to make sure befor I got told to gtfo moder! in the 1.5 thread lol

Just unlocked a modern heavy cruiser 2 in my Japanese campaign, with the research '16500 ton CA' assigned to the year 1922. No way that's right, probably should be 1932. Not sure if this is NAR specific or stock. I should scrap all my other ships and build 50 of these lmao

true realism might still be fun late era with very stable ships and radar assisted fire control, but it sure isn't earlier than that. this is what i was getting.

Well, I've been filtered. Oh man is accuracy terrible now in my 1913 campaign, after a capital ship has all but depleted its magazines, its has a 1.3-1.9% hit rate to show for it.

I don't suppose there is a way to mirror the front tower and use it as an aft tower? Like, In the files that can be moded, Is there a model reference that can be changed for any particular tower entry?

Haven't said it enough, but every major release of this mod always impresses, always fond of 95% of the changes. 👍 An easier way to perhaps tone down late modern ship accuracy would be to lessen the stability score on some hulls. Rather than tweet the stats of thousands of towers, just hundreds of hulls! More than any other modifier listed on left side of the screen, a ships 'hull stability and towers' score seems like it determines gun accuracy the most. A ship with over +100 pretty much has guided munitions.

i wonder how many battlships i'll lose if i hit auto resolve... Hey! Very reasonable result for once. I also fought a similar battle, though the French had about double the numbers in the picture. Understandably they ran, but once my faster cruisers caught up, ships would turn and fight once forced, more reasonable behavior.

Afraid i don't have as exciting a tale. a tank of a CA with more than double the displacement of my 2 ASW escort cruisers he's surly coming right at me, id have no defense against it's 8 and 9 in guns hmm, maybe not, must have just started really far away back from the bathroom break, no contact yet at last, my ~5knot speed advantage pays off! as i feared, a stern chase all along Also as i feared, my guns are all but harmless to it, if i can land a hit at all. With the terrible stability of this hull having a awful -27.4 stability and towers score, it could never win a gun fight with peer. Seeing as all i can do is get flooded badly by every hit i take, i do the only smart thing and disengage. The enemy doesn't chase me down to finish me off as i limp away, its still to terrified of me to do anything but continue to disengage. sorry, my story kind of sucked, i liked yours a lot better.

1910 custom battle with unadjusted NAR. The mk3 in this case 9in-11in are not using the same Japanese specific turrets as the capital ships would. I kept adjusting the years up and the MK4 turrets were Japanese specific though. 1925 custom battle with unadjusted NAR. All guns mk4, Japanese specific turrets like i would expect. I'm not quite sure what you mean here, but I also went through and checked every other faction's capital ships and cruiser main guns throughout the years, and without fail the cruisers and capitals had the same 9in-11in turret models, its only the Japanese right now that there is an issue that i could tell. Then i put my adjusted version of the mod back on, and from 12in-14in the main guns were consistent between cruisers and capitals on the other factions, somehow. I'd been running that change for a wile now and never ran into defaulted generic gun models before. I did a bit more thinking about it, and for the first 5 years or so of the 1900 campaign the enemy would show up to the fight for the most part, it might have been when I did my first major refits that it changed to always running. Going from coal and triple expansion to semi oil and turbines, mk3 guns, using all that freed up extra tonnage to crank up the speed 3 knots and put fore/aft 14.6in guns on that semi dreadnaught, up from an all 9.8in main battery, that's when the AI just started autorunning, their ships mostly 1900 designs. But, even their newer designs on newer hulls run as well, their newly unlocked dreadnaughts. I might go in and adjust that 'parms' file a bit, maybe just down to .4 to start, see if at least the enemy new designs get a bit braver.

Of course its from NAR, just with 'shiptypes' tweaked, I wouldn't be bothering you about it if it was from some wholly other mod! See for yourself in a ~1910 custom battle, the heavy cruiser will be using non Japanese turret models, at least in the mk1-3 range, I'm only at 1909 in my campaign so far. If i want to engage in battle with any force strength vs any force strength, i have to chase them for 5 minutes before I see them, their behavior is exactly what your own ships would do if you selected the retreat command. I'll see about getting pictures of stern chases.

I'm referring to cruisers using a selection of more generic turret models, even in the normal 6in-11in range. As apposed to the Japanese specific turret models that capital ships use. see, difference in model selection between a CA and a BB. I also have feedback on the current AI battle logic: It runs, it only runs, unfortunately. The swarm version was much more challenging and dangerous to deal with.

Started a 1900 Japanese campaign, and noticed most cruiser gun models 7in and up aren't in line with models used by capital ships

So it just sort of made a new colum automaticly? Maybe make a column for every 'in' of gun then? Or groups of 2, like the 9in and 10in together, 2in and 3in. Would be funny to see what would happen when focusing 20in since 1890 lol.

Ya i had a feeling there must be a per hull override of the global value, that must have been a bit tedious to set up, and to take apart lol. Can different minimums be added into that? like any BB that has the word 'modern' in its title have a minimum main gun of 14in instead of 9in? At least 11in min. The tweeks I've made for personal use include heavy cruisers having 2-8in secondaries for casemate use, and 8-14in main guns. I think I saw there's a British cruiser in WOWS now that's got 3 duel KGV turrets, so that's the inspiration for that limit. Of course fitting guns that size on a cruiser hull is like trying to fit 20in on battleships, their weight and size are their own limiting factor. For light cruisers I'd also allow 2-8in secondaries for casemate use and 5-10in main guns. I remove torpedo dependencies as well because the AI likes to just run from torp armed ships pathologically. I also removed secondary tower dependency, that has the side effect of allowing you to place multiple secondary towers, which is amusing. The auto design still will always include 1 secondary towers despite this requirement removed, all but in 1 case. A French BB that appeared to have additional weights effecting the design process, to have an all forward main gun setup is the only ship i've seen the AI build without a secondary tower. A good bit of additional freedom in all these changes. I was thinking of more like were the limits to the maximum you can armor something, less so adjusting the weight impact. like wherever its set that battlecruisers can have up to a 14in main belt, heavy cruisers 8in main belt, id just change the max barbet thickness on every turret to be like 1.5in, allowing the auto designer to actually make something ungimped for once. Tired of seeing auto designed 90,000 ton super battleships that have 2 triple 16in turrets that have 20in barbet armor and no secondaries.

Already got all the new stuff integrated? That was fast! I've got a couple of modding questions, maximum size of light cruiser main guns are 9in in NAR, but only hulls considered protected cruisers can run larger that 7in, how would this be circumvented? Also, where are armor limits set exactly? I think the autobuilder could put together decent designs if it didn't waste 20% of its tonage on useless barbett armor, I'd like to go in and limit that.

This is on the auto updating steam Installion, that overwrote any mods in the folder when i opted into the beta, I doubt there will be any 1.5 mods until after a full release. I'll do a fresh reinstall and check again tomarrow, but this was the behavior on the up to date beta version.

ya but its just soooo easy to post screenshots with steam links lol. These weight increases do happen thanks to tech unlocks and what not, but this ship was laid down less than a year ago, and 3 months after it was built, the mk4 mk14 guns unlocked so it got a very early refit. This in particular was just a suspiciously large increase for seemingly only a MK change. So some general questions for the mod, how are you planning to integrate some of the new models? Those proper 6in+ US guns, are they gunna replace the cruiser main guns and capital ship secondaries? And what about quads in general, is a more liberal use of them going to be allowed for secondaries, for at least certain factions? I agree what you said earlier about quad inherent reload and accuracy penalties being to harsh. Like the initial -40% on accuracy only getting improved to a -15% at best, and this is pretty much limited to the 30s before you even see them. I think some French paper ships had them during WW1. Maybe an initial -25, to a -15 on intermediate, to a -10 on advanced, and all quad tech added into the tree a decade earlier. Most of the high mk quad turrets are extra wide anyway, they aren't necessarily more cramped and less workable than twin or triple turrets. They would just require that much more crew to operate the additional barrel. Wait, DECRESING rate of growth for ship yard capacity? and at that rate, there's never a reason to delay gratification beyond the minimum 6 months, if there's no bonus for longer and larger expansion projects. Just, decreasing rate of growth at all, GOD WHY? With the extremely long refit times the game now has you can tie your shipyard down for 5-10 years strait modernizing ships, and by the time your done the first class refit is already obsolete again. Currently you delete 1 2in turret and it adds +6 months to the refit. I've resorted to editing my save at the start of each campaign to double everyone's capacity for the game even to be tolerable. Not sure if you or anyone else has figured out were or how refits are handled, but that a feature that could use the most moding done to it. Certain things just unallowed to be changed entirely like the armor skin of the ship, a total engine swap being a 1 year time sink, secondary gun changes adding a month at most, etc. If you can literally change anything there is no reason to ever scrap capital ships, fully modernized dreadnaught 1s with radar, double gears, late armor, triple base powder and mk5 guns can pretty much be viable forever, not just excess invasion tonnage.

was checking out the new modernized dread 1 for Russia and noticed that 8in casemates shrunk when size was increased. 8.0in vs 8.9in then I saw those forward facing casemates angle inside the ship trying to point at the enemy

Noticed a huge weight increase when going from mk3 to mk4 Russian 14in guns during a refit. the Mk3 were as light as 942 tons, hitting refit shows the mk4 at 1202 tons. Id post screens shots, but this is playing 1.4 on a copy of the game folder, safe from steam updates. The turret model did change from a more generic model to late Russian hulking model, but a weight increase like that is pretty ruff when doing refits, the ship was suddenly overweight by 5%. not sure if its isolated to 14in or not, this is just the one i happened to notice. *edit, well this is bizarre, i try designing a new ship with 14in guns and with the exact same armor and tech applied the mk4 only weights 1060tons.

you can just save scum by saving to another file, then saving again to the main save file, and end turn. if you don't like the dice role on a naval invasion or a government capitulation, just reload from the second file, save to the first file again, and end turn hoping for a better outcome.

Putting it on nexus is a good idea, had to reset my ip to download the last update. Well how about that! brothermunro discovering important parameters to tinker with. We'll see what it takes to burn things down when I actually try too now.

Darn I was afraid of that. I'd never heard of a modifier for that specific thing ever mentioned, and it was ripe for tweaking.