Tagging to help ally.

[Spam Hands]

As a GB player in an unarmed TLynx in Yucatan channel heading NW to Tumbado, I come across another GB ship, running from a single Russian both out of Tumbado heading E. They have both picked up a wind boost. Ships are quite close to each other but outside tagging distance. Am I allowed to tag the Russian even though I have no intention of fighting him, in order to delay him and allow the GB ship to run clean away?

Ships were two deckers.

Edited March 23, 2020 by Spam Hands

[ashley]

So every time an Endymion has defensively tagged me so he can have a better chance of running has been breaking the rules?

If this is true I should be reporting like 10 people a day as everyone defensively tags to have a better chance of running....

[admin]

39 minutes ago, ashley said:

So every time an Endymion has defensively tagged me so he can have a better chance of running has been breaking the rules?

If this is true I should be reporting like 10 people a day as everyone defensively tags to have a better chance of running....

If Endymion is without guns and actually keeps you in battle (instead of exiting at first attempt as it will usually do after defensive tag) and you recorded him keeping you in battle for 1 hour it would be griefing. Its not hard to capture such rare moment and they happen less after we wiped a couple of guys for keeping people in battles. 

[Farrago]

While it would be nice to have a definitive ruling about the original post rather than @admin choosing a different example it seems to be official opinion (and hopefully Admin will correct or clarify):

A defensive tag to save yourself or others might be okay but you can’t just hold the enemy in battle indefinitely without giving battle.

Am I interpreting correctly?

[John Hill Regard]

So i escort a friend of mine who is in a trader.

I tag an ennemy player who was triyng to attack my defensless friend .

He is in a bigger ship and more skilled than me so i decide to flee like a coward...

I have done my escort job and you say that i shoulg go to tribunal for this ????

Please STOP thinking this game accross Hard core PVP Gamer's eyes !!! 

The crying player who loose his easy pray should go to PZ solo if he want surely find balanced PVP.

[Hands]

nothing to stop you

it would prob cquse someone to compain   but not illigak

 

[admin]

1 hour ago, Spam Hands said:

As a GB player in an unarmed TLynx in Yucatan channel heading NW to Tumbado, I come across another GB ship, running from a single Russian both out of Tumbado heading E. They have both picked up a wind boost. Ships are quite close to each other but outside tagging distance. Am I allowed to tag the Russian even though I have no intention of fighting him, in order to delay him and allow the GB ship to run clean away?

Ships were two deckers.

If you do nothing in that battle you will be probably reported in tribunal. After couple of such empty delaying actions you might lose your rank, because limiting other's gameplay outside of game rules is against steam eula and game rules.

Attack and fight. Then try to escape if you can. Thats the only way. 

[Spam Hands]

Some mixed messages there but Admin suit is trumps. GB player's name was James Northington iirc, so sorry for not getting involved. Hopefully you got away anyway.

I do have one follow up question for the @Admin. If my T Lynx has no cannon then how do I attack and fight the Russian two decker. Ramming or boarding are all I can think of.

Edited March 23, 2020 by Spam Hands

[admin]

28 minutes ago, Spam Hands said:

Some mixed messages there but Admin suit is trumps. GB player's name was James Northington iirc, so sorry for not getting involved. Hopefully you got away anyway.

I do have one follow up question for the @Admin. If my T Lynx has no cannon then how do I attack and fight the Russian two decker. Ramming or boarding are all I can think of.

if you cant fight then you will definitely be reported for griefing and wasting time. 

[The Rear End of Sauron]

2 hours ago, admin said:

If you do nothing in that battle you will be probably reported in tribunal. After couple of such empty delaying actions you might lose your rank, because limiting other's gameplay outside of game rules is against steam eula and game rules.

Attack and fight. Then try to escape if you can. Thats the only way. 

 

2 hours ago, admin said:

if you cant fight then you will definitely be reported for griefing and wasting time. 

 

19 minutes ago, admin said:

If Endymion is without guns and actually keeps you in battle (instead of exiting at first attempt as it will usually do after defensive tag) and you recorded him keeping you in battle for 1 hour it would be griefing. Its not hard to capture such rare moment and they happen less after we wiped a couple of guys for keeping people in battles. 

ty for the clarification

in a parallel situation except in RvR if a nation tags a Port Battle, and has no other PB's within a 90 minute window on either side and doesn't show up and has stated clearly on the forums that their intent is to just grief the players of the other nation how is this viewed?

some people i have spoken to are of the opinion it is absolutely fine because all is fair in RvR 

others have stated it is intentional and deliberate time wasting and griefing of not just one captain, but many captains

am curious as to your view on this

ty

 

[Liam790]

4 minutes ago, The Rear End of Sauron said:

 

 

ty for the clarification

in a parallel situation except in RvR if a nation tags a Port Battle, and has no other PB's within a 90 minute window on either side and doesn't show up and has stated clearly on the forums that their intent is to just grief the players of the other nation how is this viewed?

some people i have spoken to are of the opinion it is absolutely fine because all is fair in RvR 

others have stated it is intentional and deliberate time wasting and griefing of not just one captain, but many captains

am curious as to your view on this

ty

 

@admin @Ink it would be nice to have a bit of a ruling here, even if not clear cut, but at least to see how you view it.

we know each case it different etc etc but knowing what your general view on when griefing is griefing even in “RvR”. 
 

As I for example know I can’t leave port currently within 3/4 hours of a PB unless I am willing to surrender the ship I am sailing as the moment a Russian or Dane sees me, even if they can’t kill me I’m in for hours or endless tagging purely so I can’t get to the Pb. 

[erelkivtuadrater]

@admin an solution to this should logically be that you load into OW where you exit the battle. So you can escape from a gank fleet inside the battle and get to a friendly port after 1 hour chase and dock up.

[SnovaZdorowa]

Очень много оценочных понятий. Очень.

Что тут против правил:?

1. Держу людей в бою, пока подойдут сокланы, чтобы перетагать и убить.

2. Держу людей в бою, в образовательных целях, что не надо кидаться рейтами на эндимионы (ну, к примеру)

3. Держу, чтобы отбить желание перетагать, с целью спокойно потом уйти.

4. Держим ПБ-шную пачку в качестве защиты порта (очки капают).

Отмазы от трибунала:

Сокланы не дошли (захотели какать, пропал интернет, перехватили, забыли, список бесконечен)

Бой с ПБ-шной пачкой - долго и мучительно отдаем им пару кораблей и типа бой был ))

 

Это ж интанс, тут никто не подварпает таклеру на голову. Что остается... либо приделывать DPM для удержания в бою, либо заходить в череду бесконечных трибуналов.

Для трибуналов хотелось бы видеть максимально четко сформулированные правила.

[Macjimm]

9 hours ago, admin said:

If Endymion is without guns and actually keeps you in battle (instead of exiting at first attempt as it will usually do after defensive tag) and you recorded him keeping you in battle for 1 hour it would be griefing. Its not hard to capture such rare moment and they happen less after we wiped a couple of guys for keeping people in battles. 

@admin   How can an Endymion (without guns) keep a player in battle?  Can the raider not just stop firing for a couple minutes and then leave the battle?  

if I get attacked, on a trade run, in a ship without cannons: It sounds like I can only use a defensive tag if I leave the battle at the earliest opportunity.  This will respawn me in OW where the battle started, and will place me at a disadvantage.    Are we confusing fleeing with deliberately trying to annoy players?  Seems if I am attacked,  when I'm  without cannons, I should just close with the raider and allow my ship to be sunk or captured.

Is it okay to flee if I do not tag?

Please don't think I am being disrepectful.  I find the battle mechanics very confusing. 

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by Macjimm

[ashley]

3 hours ago, admin said:

If Endymion is without guns and actually keeps you in battle (instead of exiting at first attempt as it will usually do after defensive tag) and you recorded him keeping you in battle for 1 hour it would be griefing. Its not hard to capture such rare moment and they happen less after we wiped a couple of guys for keeping people in battles. 

 

I'm not talking about a ship with no guns, I'm talking about defensive tagging and then running.

You told OP:

"Attack and fight. Then try to escape if you can. Thats the only way."

This excludes the possibility of defensive tagging and running, which is what almost everyone in solo pvp does when they get chased by a ship they cannot fight, this has always been a thing and never been seen as tribunal worthy behaviour  yet what you say contradicts this. Traders for instance defensive tag you and carry on running, they don't fight. You are saying that all traders should get reported?

 

So am I right in thinking that defensive tagging in order to keep running is now not allowed and that if I do defensive tag, I HAVE to fight or get reported??

 

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by ashley

[Farrago]

On 3/28/2020 at 8:42 AM, Macjimm said:

 

 

 

Farrago,

The NA rules are made for wolves NOT for sheep.  They promote fighting.

I'm guessing that a defensive tag -without cannon, is only okay if you allow yourself to be sunk or captured.

It seems that you can defensively tag, with cannon, only if you fight and do not flee.

I suppose you can defensively tag anytime ... if you fight.    You may  defensively tag ONLY once if you flee, but only if you exit the battle as soon as you are able.  I think that staying in battle after you are able to leave is considered griefing if your opponent stays in the battle with you, but you are allowed to stay if your opponent decides to leave.

It's very complex...if you try to flee.  Keep it simple -  Attack Always, with or without cannon.

I never sail without cannons but if I’m out solo and am being chased and run down, I’ll still use the defensive tag: it’s me vs them choosing when the battle instance starts. And if it seems like terrible odds, I’m going to run. If that gets tribunaled as griefing, so be it. I don’t think anything I’ve ever done could be misconstrued as griefing but then that’s why I try to video every battle instance, just in case.

[Macjimm]

On 3/23/2020 at 2:18 AM, admin said:

if you cant fight then you will definitely be reported for griefing and wasting time. 

 

On 3/23/2020 at 1:40 AM, admin said:

If you do nothing in that battle you will be probably reported in tribunal. After couple of such empty delaying actions you might lose your rank, because limiting other's gameplay outside of game rules is against steam eula and game rules.

Attack and fight. Then try to escape if you can. Thats the only way. 

 

On 3/23/2020 at 4:09 AM, admin said:

If Endymion is without guns and actually keeps you in battle (instead of exiting at first attempt as it will usually do after defensive tag) and you recorded him keeping you in battle for 1 hour it would be griefing. Its not hard to capture such rare moment and they happen less after we wiped a couple of guys for keeping people in battles. 

 

16 hours ago, Farrago said:

While it would be nice to have a definitive ruling about the original post rather than @admin choosing a different example it seems to be official opinion (and hopefully Admin will correct or clarify):

A defensive tag to save yourself or others might be okay but you can’t just hold the enemy in battle indefinitely without giving battle.

Am I interpreting correctly?

Farrago,

The NA rules are made for wolves NOT for sheep.  They promote fighting.

I'm guessing that a defensive tag -without cannon, is only okay if you allow yourself to be sunk or captured.

It seems that you can defensively tag, with cannon, only if you fight and do not flee.

I suppose you can defensively tag anytime ... if you fight.    You may  defensively tag ONLY once if you flee, but only if you exit the battle as soon as you are able.  I think that staying in battle after you are able to leave is considered griefing if your opponent stays in the battle with you, but you are allowed to stay if your opponent decides to leave.

It's very complex...if you try to flee.  Keep it simple -  Attack Always, with or without cannon.

[erelkivtuadrater]

On 3/28/2020 at 4:42 PM, Macjimm said:

Farrago,

The NA rules are made for wolves NOT for sheep.  They promote fighting.

I'm guessing that a defensive tag -without cannon, is only okay if you allow yourself to be sunk or captured.

It seems that you can defensively tag, with cannon, only if you fight and do not flee.

I suppose you can defensively tag anytime ... if you fight.    You may  defensively tag ONLY once if you flee, but only if you exit the battle as soon as you are able.  I think that staying in battle after you are able to leave is considered griefing if your opponent stays in the battle with you, but you are allowed to stay if your opponent decides to leave.

It's very complex...if you try to flee.  Keep it simple -  Attack Always, with or without cannon.

its an unwritten rule that you can defensive tag if you feel you cant beat the enemy in numbers or simply dont want to fight and know you can run away inside the battle giving you maximum advantage, and i dont see anything wrong with it.

For instance, why should the player that is running away let the other ship up right next to him without doing any manouvers? The defensive tag is legit and the only thing its missing is that you spawn in OW where you leave the battle. You can say that people would use this to defensive tag a ship and sail into a port, let them do that if it takes them 30 - 60 minutes to accomplish that, its not efficient at all, and the realism in this is that the ships that cant reach the battle before the closing timer of 2 minutes, would simply be to far away to do anything anyway.

Edited March 31, 2020 by erelkivtuadrater

[erelkivtuadrater]

1 hour ago, John Hill Regard said:

So i escort a friend of mine who is in a trader.

I tag an ennemy player who was triyng to attack my defensless friend .

He is in a bigger ship and more skilled than me so i decide to flee like a coward...

I have done my escort job and you say that i shoulg go to tribunal for this ????

Please STOP thinking this game accross Hard core PVP Gamer's eyes !!! 

The crying player who loose his easy pray should go to PZ solo if he want surely find balanced PVP.

These are two different situations.

If you escort a ship, your job is to protect the trader ship and fight other warships, at least you have to try. But if you are in a fast ship just to screen out others over and over again preferably the same player, preventing them to do ingame objects thats tribunal worthy.

If you sail as the trade ship and defensive tag because you know your chances are slim and you want your best possible chance to survive its logically fine to do the tag and sail away, because you're not preventing the other guy to do his thing, you just make it more challenging for him, but locking him out in another battle like the other scenario directly preventes him from doing what he intends to.

And all of this i feel comes from common sense, if you look from both sides perspective.

 

And last thing, PZ isnt the same pvp as you find in OW, if you go with anything other then carronades in PZ you're most likely gonna die anyway, since you're forced close quarter, and have nowhere to run.