Disengage

[Thonys]

Boarding issue:

many times i see that a losing vessel with almost no crew  can manage to disengage when all the men are fighting .

Remove the disengage button from the default action menu ...

>> to the perk (section) with a crew that cut the ropes on standby.

if you dont have the disengage perk you can not disengage from a fight .

 

just a little example 

3 ships in a fight 2 enemy Hercules and a heavy frigate

 

every ship is at 50% hull

i put my prep up to board the other vessel who is hugging me

and i manage to get below 3.5 knots and we are in the boarding game

at that point, i am in a boarding game with a Hercules 1 vs 1

i cannot control the guns to fire at the other vessel who is at the other side of me , who popped up from the back of the boarded vessel and shoots my hull 

the fight is an even fight and the outcome is still a  guess for the both of us

suddenly my hull is completely shot away by the other vessel, and i am making water. and the water level is almost full

suddenly the disengage button is activated and in 4 even rounds fighting to the death the boarding fight is done

at that point, i know that going back to my vessel is impossible and have to fight further to get my hands on the enemy vessel.

but he used the disengage button and had control of all my man commanding to stop boarding and send them to davy johns locker and i as a captain are torpedoed to a port 

 

that's lame...

its the same as using the atomic bomb were he is immortal and can't be affected by radiation and all others are dead

is a loose end 

a solution might be:

or the second ship is not allowed to interfere and cannot shoot at me because it is a dedicated fight in a boarding fight between 1vs1

or the fight cannot be disengaged because one of the ships is sinking and have to fight to the dead triggered by the sinking of one of the ships

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by Thonys

[Old Crusty]

4 hours ago, Thonys said:

Boarding issue:

many times i see that a losing vessel with almost no crew  can manage to disengage when all the men are fighting .

Remove the disengage button from the default action menu ...

>> to the perk (section) with a crew that cut the ropes on standby.

if you dont have the disengage perk you can not disengage from a fight .

 

 

No

[Liq]

So we have to give up another valuable perk slot, just to get a chance to disengage from these 337 crew, marine boarding modded Requins?

No, thanks

[Dibbler (Retired)]

No

[Licinio Chiavari]

Realism wise OT is right.

Balance wise, not going to happen...

Even if there are so many ways to defend from being boarded and during boarding, and so hard buffed defender (thinking to one year ago) is now I am still wondering how people is unable to defend and ask often even more boarding protection.

Ah... Forgot: Gunnery enthusiasts dont want to devote nothing to boarding defense... And then cry about "rage" boarding being unable to withstand a bigger, better lead, better trained and better equipped crew in a melee.

The same realism defenders of mast sniping, infinite repairs, hull hugging and 15.5 kts Bellonas

Edited August 18, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari

[Cmdr RideZ]

Boarding is like the worst part of this game. Really hard to understand how anyone would feel like buff it.

Boarding is nub way to play. If your enemy does not have DD, ram and board + boarding mods that give your superior advantage -> "I win" button.

If I see anyone boarding I know directly that he is a nub.

[Licinio Chiavari]

20 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Boarding is like the worst part of this game. Really hard to understand how anyone would feel like buff it.

Boarding is nub way to play. If your enemy does not have DD, ram and board + boarding mods that give your superior advantage -> "I win" button.

If I see anyone boarding I know directly that he is a nub.

Defending from a boarding is a breeze at the moment (again: remember one year ago).

If boarding is so noobish, why arent you able to counter it? Logic has an answer.

May be your are too busy in highly realistic naval actions like sterncamping a 1st rate with a corvette, hull hugging to her, sniping masts from 200mt that you have no spare time to learn how manage a boarding battle.

Moreover: NEVER drop a couple of shiny gunnery or repairs super books to be able to fight off a boarder.

PS: a good share of the success of Royal Navy was the valour of its crew and marines in close quarter combat.

[Bluetooth]

2 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Boarding is like the worst part of this game. Really hard to understand how anyone would feel like buff it.

Boarding is nub way to play. If your enemy does not have DD, ram and board + boarding mods that give your superior advantage -> "I win" button.

If I see anyone boarding I know directly that he is a nub.

The statement of a vet who has not progressed from being a nub.

Every time I board a ship with no boarding defence and  after making it's nub captain walk the plank, I laugh while I sink it and it's OP firing and speed mods.

[Licinio Chiavari]

14 minutes ago, Crow said:

The statement of a vet who has not progressed from being a nub.

Every time I board a ship with no boarding defence and  after making it's nub captain walk the plank, I laugh while I sink it and it's OP firing and speed mods.

I fell in love with this reply. 🤣😂🤣😂

[Rychu Karas]

 

Thony, I would like to introduce exclusively only for you "undock" perk, it cost 11points.

1 star for your hard try...

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by Rychu Karas

[William Death]

No.

I agree, it is probably "historically" right, but it won't balance in the game, as others have pointed out.

Best boarding defense mod: don't get boarded! Sail your ship well and players will have a VERY hard time getting you in boarding. Understand how much sail force your ship has and how much manual sailing to apply to keep them from pushing you into the wind.

I once fought a Surprise + Snow in my Endymion. Normally not a particularly challenging fight ordinarily, but these two players were quite good at the sterncamping game and this was before Endy got a turn rate and sailing profile buff. Determined Defender was not in the game at that time. They quickly raked 150+ crew off my ship. Chained to 70% sails, but every time one of them got in place to pit me upwind, I had a load of double shot and carronades waiting. Eventually the Surprise limped away to repair. I was able to demast the snow in a single broadside and then nearly sink him the next broadside. His ship exploded and the Surprise was able to escape upwind. A very tricky engagement; had I played it like a noob, firing every time a broadside was pointed at the enemy, I probably would have lost, but by carefully waiting to get the perfect shot in, the enemy had no chance to pit me into the wind without having his side melted to nothing in the process. And no way was I going to tack into the wind for them 

 

Another thing, run a boarding mod or two, or some marines. I often run either Marines 15 or Book of Five rings, sometimes both and other mods too, if I'm going for a boarding rig. Of course, determined defender is standard for me. Should I get boarded, or board somebody, and they see I have marines, they'll likely think I'm full board fit and either try to disengage or inform any friends in their fleet. Sure, you sacrifice some crew from cannons for marines, but I don't understand why people think crew count is even important, especially on larger ships. And now, with rum repairs...well you'd best figure on raking him twice before trying to board.

Manage your broadsides, fire only the cannons that will do work at that range/angle, and sail carefully to prevent getting into a slugging match with a ship that can reload faster than you. I couldn't tell you how many successful duels or PBs I've been in where my first rate ended the battle with ~400-500 crew. Because, ultimately, while you're losing all that crew, you are hopefully getting some damage done to the enemy too: you may have no crew, but if he has no HP left, or no masts left....I'd say you got the better bargain.

[Cmdr RideZ]

20 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Defending from a boarding is a breeze at the moment (again: remember one year ago).

 

18 hours ago, Crow said:

The statement of a vet who has not progressed from being a nub.

 

Ok guys, as I am so nub can you please explain me how this works?

One more thing Veteran players. Can you tell me which part of boarding has very high skill cap?  Also how big role gear has?  Compare these too.

Tell me also what is making it a breeze now to defend against boarding.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Cmdr RideZ

[Thonys]

15 hours ago, Rychu Karas said:

 

Thony, I would like to introduce exclusively only for you "undock" perk, it cost 11points.

1 star for your hard try...

 

thanks, i would gladly use the perk.  

but just a little remark to my post

 

just a little example 

3 ships in a fight 2 enemy Hercules and a heavy frigate

 

every ship is in the battle and every ships hull is at 50% hull

i put my prep up to board the other vessel who is hugging me.

and i manage to get below 3.5 knots and we are in the boarding game

 

at that point, i am in a boarding game with a Hercules 1 vs 1

i cannot control the guns to fire at the other vessel who is at the other side of me , who popped up from the back of the boarded vessel and shoots my hull 

the fight is an even fight and the outcome is still a  guess for the both of us.

 

suddenly my hull is completely shot away by the other vessel, and i am making water. and the water level is almost full

suddenly the disengage button is activated and in 4 even rounds fighting to the death the boarding fight is done

at that point, i know that going back to my vessel is impossible and have to fight further to get my hands on the enemy vessel.(my crew is desperate now)

but he used the disengage button and had control of all my man commanding to stop boarding and send them to davy johns locker and i as a captain are torpedoed to a port 

 

that's lame...

its the same as using the atomic bomb were he is immortal and can't be affected by radiation and all others are dead

it's a loose end.

 

a solution might be:

or the second ship is not allowed to interfere and cannot shoot at me because it is a dedicated fight in a boarding fight between 1vs1

or the fight cannot be disengaged because one of the ships is sinking and have to fight to the dead triggered by the sinking of one of the ships.

 

ps. to all the NO.  mods and kids.......what is NO for a discussion..... can't you read or write like i do   ..don't you have an opinion. like anybody else.

i can not agree to the answer NO ...so come back here and give me an explanation pls.

its a serious discussion for the future of the boarding game, what a special game in the battle game.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by Thonys

[Nelsons Barrel]

My dear @Thonys, 

I would wish your suggestions would add content/stuff to the game. Not take stuff away from the already limited amount of stuff we have.

No.

[Thonys]

14 minutes ago, Nelsons Barrel said:

My dear @Thonys, 

I would wish your suggestions would add content/stuff to the game. Not take stuff away from the already limited amount of stuff we have.

No.

well, not take away disengage that is still something that needs to stay...

but a change is needed...to make it a complete game

like i said,  it has a loose end. lets have a brainstorm on this one...

Edited August 19, 2018 by Thonys

[Licinio Chiavari]

3 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Ok guys, as I am so nub can you please explain me how this works?

One more thing Veteran players. Can you tell me which part of boarding has very high skill cap?  Also how big role gear has?  Compare these too.

Tell me also what is making it a breeze now to defend against boarding.

I think you never hunt around as a boarder. So I could suggest to pick a fast ship, make her boarder modded, and try around.

When someone was whining about being unable to defend from a sterncamper and that sterncamping is too easy, a wise captain replied: "sterncamp requires the same skill level to not being sterncamped". Same goes with boarding (and especially avoiding it). Not by chance the best captains able to avoid being boarded, are usually the same good at it... as a skilled de-mast-er is the best at avoiding being de-mast-ed.

Then let me know the skill cap of, example, repair mods. What skill in repairing 2 folds more hull and sail than me clicking the same button? Remember: a boarder gives up almost all slots of potential shiny stuff to be effective. 

Do you know modifiers to MELEE and FIREPOWER ratios in boarding screen? how they change due to morale, numbers, enemy action? I can assure you: they change and knowing them helps a lot in evaluating what to do and what not to do. Is it skill? probably is experience. Like 90% of ingame "skill" in Naval Action is experience: knowing what works, what could work, and what will not work... what is a suicide, what is risky and what is douable. This is not a FirstPersonShooter. It's far less matter of reflexes and far more of experience (not by chance we can notice a quite higher players' medium age here than in majority of MMOs).

 

About being a breeze now:

1. Determined Defender perk (crap): I HAVE to decrew you even if boarding strenght wise I do not need to. Sterncamping requires time (something I could often not have inside enemy waters or outnumbered or both); even skillfully done, I will get some hits... hits a smaller ship not always can withstand without having to retreat. Quite simple.

2. Reworked boarding combat ratios. One year ago being hit by ATTACK being on BRACE meant insta-death. In general anything aside DEFEND against an ATTACK order was plain death. Now BRACE is far stronger... and this allow to get some losses AND build up preparation to disengage. Same goes with MUSKET and DECKGUNS: previously receiving an attack on them was deadly... now simply sub-optimal [Still I have to point out that if you do not get crew to boarding while risking being boarded, it is your fault, not broken game feature: be boarding prepped and the whole boarding will last 4 rounds, period].

3. On top of '2.': barricades book. With this single book even a smaller crew ship defending is quietly able to hold off enemy attack (with 5+ books devoted to boarding) simply with BRACE.

One year ago a full geared and prepped boarding ship could attack even 2:3 crew wise a not geared nor prepped one and kill really fast. Now there's the DD (crap) and even if enemy hasnt, ATTACK on BRACE will not kill the (silly) enemy not prepped giving him time to build up prep and then disengage.

I assure you. Defending from boarding is FAR EASIER NOW. I was a lone boarding raider quite some time ago, and well before Requin.

 

[Barbancourt]

1 hour ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

I think you never hunt around as a boarder. So I could suggest to pick a fast ship, make her boarder modded, and try around.

 

Will fir/crew space shop ships (e.g. surprise/cerberus) work?  Otherwise that seems like a route to bankruptcy through losing several dozen ships and their cannons/rum/repairs.  (Even with the cheapest ships a lot of PVE hours would be required to fund the experiment) 

 

1 hour ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

 

When someone was whining about being unable to defend from a sterncamper and that sterncamping is too easy, a wise captain replied: "sterncamp requires the same skill level to not being sterncamped".

 

Depends on the ships.  You could sterncamp my LGV all day long without breaking a sweat.    That thing turns like a city bus.

 

1 hour ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Do you know modifiers to MELEE and FIREPOWER ratios in boarding screen? how they change due to morale, numbers, enemy action? I can assure you: they change and knowing them helps a lot in evaluating what to do and what not to do.

 

...I have no idea what this part means....  🤔

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by Barbancourt (rownd)

[Barbancourt]

13 minutes ago, McKillen said:

Boarding ships are simple to make, the most expensive part for me is the speed mods/the ship itself.

If you're just going to throw away dozens of ships on boarding experiments the ship shop seems to me to be the way to go?  Costs roughly an hour of PVE per ship, wastes no precious resources.

speed mods == fir frame?    maybe cotton sails?  I have about 100 of those.   

 

[Cmdr RideZ]

On 8/19/2018 at 3:49 PM, Licinio Chiavari said:

I think you never hunt around as a boarder. So I could suggest to pick a fast ship, make her boarder modded, and try around.

When someone was whining about being unable to defend from a sterncamper and that sterncamping is too easy, a wise captain replied: "sterncamp requires the same skill level to not being sterncamped". Same goes with boarding (and especially avoiding it). Not by chance the best captains able to avoid being boarded, are usually the same good at it... as a skilled de-mast-er is the best at avoiding being de-mast-ed.

Then let me know the skill cap of, example, repair mods. What skill in repairing 2 folds more hull and sail than me clicking the same button? Remember: a boarder gives up almost all slots of potential shiny stuff to be effective. 

 

About being a breeze now:...

I like that you actually try to reason.

One thing, raking is something that everyone can do and when situation comes to actually take it. Raking needs a lot more skill than boarding.

I think sterncamping is ok. DD is the only more difficult part of boarding today, the rest I believe is easier than before. This is because you at least have to rake before you get in gear based RPS game.  I don't know many that like or think there is skill in Rock-Paper-Scissors boarding, actually I know none.

What is the skill cap of repair mods, what is the skill cap of multiple repair kits? I think there is 0 skill included here. Multireps was a bad idea. They should remove ASAP.

If someone has Barricades that means that you have to board multiple times before you succeed with boarding setup? If someone stays on brace it means that with your boarding setup you cannot win it, board multiple times? There is no rage board anymore?

Sailing physics, have you noticed that ships are pretty slow to tack now? Have you ever boarded a ship in this position? Have you ever turned your opponent against the wind?

What changes you would give players without boarding gear? Should it be possible to make builds for other purposes or mandatory to have boarding upgrades?

If you think that DD is crap, that means that you have been actually trusting many times that you are able to win boarding with smaller crew advantage or maybe even disadvantage? How hard that is?

As tacking is so slow now DD is a very good perk. It should not be so easy to just board from there if we want to keep tacking as an option. I would not be surprised if your DD crap moments are exactly these moments when someone is tacking.

You have full boarding setup and another player has none. How big is the gear advantage? Can the player without upgrades win you because he just has skills to do so? Realistic to assume so?

Something similar as if you had Elite French Rig and your enemy starts to dismast and does not know he cannot penetrate.

The same ships, one has full boarding and another has Barricades. For him to be able to disengage so that he still has decent crew to continue, how many men he would need to have at the beginning of boarding?

Have you been in situation that your target, very skilled boarder is able to just disengage one attempt after another?

Have you been in situation with your full boarding gear like, "That guy does not have gear but he is so good boarder that I am losing this fight"?