Losing The love for the age of sail

[Old Crusty]

Back in 1978 a friend at school turned me on to a game. I had been playing war games already for six years with my Father. This game my friend introduced to me quickly became my favorite and 40 years later it still is (I just don’t have anybody to play it with). Wooden Ships and Iron Men by the Avalon Hill game co.

   When I found this game ( Naval Action) on Steam I was very excited. I bought and played it. It has been awesome for me. My wife got sick (brain cancer) and I dropped the game for two years and in April started playing again. Absolutely love it.

until now. Admin. Developers. The Le Requin has hurt this game. Port battles are, to me, the most exciting part of this game. Now, unless you have a Le Requin, you can no longer play in shallow water port battles. In the OW you can no longer sail in the shallow waters unless you are sailing a Le Requin. Oh sure, I can still sail there but if I come across enemy in a Le Requin I lose my ships. It’s not much of a fight, it is more like the bully taking your lunch money (except it’s the Teak you need for ships).

in the model of other successful games like World of Tanks they have DLC tanks that add great value to the game but they are only average quality for their class. Look into this. Learn from this. You will make some initial money from these OP ships but you will go broke in the long run because people will start giving this game worse ratings than it already has on Steam. 

We have all paid for this game and now to play in a good amount of its content you are making us pay again and be limited to 2 ships. Very very sad. I wonder how long the majority will continue to play?

Edited August 1, 2018 by Old Crusty
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[Liq]

Yeah, making such an unique ship with great capabilities a DLC you can redeem every day probably wasnt the best approach. A ship like the Hermione would have been better in terms of the games health. Hermione is somewhat decent in several aspects, yet not the non plus ultra. Id place her between the surprise and belle poule.

But I guess the decision of making the trollquin a dlc was mainly $ oriented. And it did the job, the carribbean is crowded with them. 

I got myself the hercules DLC which seems somewhat okay. But im not supporting the exteme dlc trollboat (and the possible future if it does too well, next up we'll have steam boats dlcs?)

Edited August 1, 2018 by Liq

[Sir Loorkon]

Both DLC ships are OP and there are so many good and objective posts about that. I wonder why they where introduced and not nerved jet because it is so obvious. It could not be money because paints and „normal“ ships would sell as good or even better and those ships will kill the game in a long run and make it p2w. Those ships are killing the fun because the OW is filled with them like it was with the Wasa when it was OP. It is so boring. I hope the ships will get nerved much faster than the Wasa was.

[Bloody Hound]

I know a good few people who have quit due to the recent DLC ships and it's into double digits. (Not just DLC ships but other stuff like RvR etc)

Unless something is changed i doubt we'll return. 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Bloody Hound

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

It seems that the Devs are focused right now on the next patch. They might and probably should go back and do the fixes as soon as possible after or during the next patch.

[Lovec1990]

8 hours ago, Liq said:

Yeah, making such an unique ship with great capabilities a DLC you can redeem every day probably wasnt the best approach. A ship like the Hermione would have been better in terms of the games health. Hermione is somewhat decent in several aspects, yet not the non plus ultra. Id place her between the surprise and belle poule.

But I guess the decision of making the trollquin a dlc was mainly $ oriented. And it did the job, the carribbean is crowded with them. 

I got myself the hercules DLC which seems somewhat okay. But im not supporting the exteme dlc trollboat (and the possible future if it does too well, next up we'll have steam boats dlcs?)

instead of Hermione why not Santa Cecilia stats are somewat the same plus looks way better

[z4ys]

9 hours ago, Liq said:

.... A ship like the Hermione would have been better in terms of the games health. ...

Then everyone would sail around in *enter any shipname here* As long dlc ships will be decent everyone would use them because they are "free".

 

[Lovec1990]

Just now, z4ys said:

Then everyone would sail around in *enter any shipname here* As long dlc ships will be decent everyone would use them because they are "free".

 

and ? if ship is balanced i do not see the problem

[z4ys]

3 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said:

and ? if ship is balanced i do not see the problem

People aren't honest. The real issue is nobody wants to fight and lose against a ship that's like the basic cutter. Free and replaceable. So they wont stop crying even if ships are balanced.

Edited August 2, 2018 by z4ys

[Lovec1990]

2 minutes ago, z4ys said:

People aren't honest. The real issue is nobody wants to fight and lose against a ship that's like the basic cutter. Free and replaceable. So they wont stop crying even if ships are balanced.

Any ship is replacable and DLC ship is not free too replace still need cannons/mods wait for DLC poods

[z4ys]

16 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said:

Any ship is replacable and DLC ship is not free too replace still need cannons/mods wait for DLC poods

Replace "Basic cutter" with "dlc ship" and it makes sense. Its actual the same issue but.

Quote

Can you please disable "DLC SHIPS" from attacking any other ships than "DLC SHIPS" for pvp? I know many experienced players have asked for this already. There is even a pirate clan that is griefing other [...] with "DLC SHIPS" swarms. They take pride in the fact that they can only win and never lose. So why is this a thing? At best they waste your time with the tag ( which is annoying enough ) and worst they sink or capture your ship. My mate was tagged by a "DLC SHIP" in his snow earlier today. He wasted time and had to pay repair AND got 0 reward for [...] the sucker. Needless to say he told me it's retarded and he would be done with the game for now. No matter how weak "DLC SHIP" is... in numbers its effective against [...] ships and abolutely free/ no risk.

Free  "DLC SHIPS" make  "similar" ships [...]  almost useless.

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by z4ys

[Lovec1990]

2 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Replace "Basic cutter" with "dlc ship" and it makes sense. Its actual the same issue but.

 

no its not BC is free DLC ship is not no free cannons no free repairs so your point fails

[z4ys]

1 minute ago, Lovec1990 said:

no its not BC is free DLC ship is not no free cannons no free repairs so your point fails

looking at my money and the reward you get afer sinking 1 ship its actual free 😉 who cares about 26  med 9 pds + 4* 2pds and a few repairs what is it 5 hull + 6 sail pro cycle?

[Lovec1990]

nope BC is free DLC ships are not thats fact, but yes DLC ship can be easily be replaced so could be crafted ship if players would not be so greedy

[z4ys]

3 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said:

 DLC ship can be easily be replaced so could be crafted ship

I agree but it feels different. Normally people take care of stuff they worked for (the style they are playing is different). A DLC ship is nothing they worked for its given.

Hard to discribe. Its like Warthunder air arcade and realistic battle. In arcade most player will yolo because they will get a plane to replace in realistic they might play more cautious more related to tactics because 1 life.

[Lovec1990]

Just now, z4ys said:

I agree but it feels different. Normally people take care of stuff they worked for (the style they are playing is different). A DLC ship is nothing they worked for its given.

Hard to discribe. Its like Warthunder air arcade and realistic battle. In arcade most player will yolo because they will get a plane to replace in realistic they might play more cautious more related to tactics because 1 life.

ok look we can go also DLC blueprint way but under these conditions:

1.)Resource and LH requiements need too be 20%-30% smaller than comparable crafted ship

2.) Ships are allowed into PB

3.)Ship cannot be captured or sold

4.)SOL can be included as DLC blueprint

Of course ships need to be balanced

[Lovec1990]

Just now, rediii said:

sinking a BC doesnt give you gold and marks

sinking a DLC ship does.

 

If DLC ships are balanced and average its fine but not like that what we have. A DLC 3rd rate (the ship) would be fine if you can redeem one every few days.

Admin said no SOLs and i agree if we get proper 5th rate DLC ships cooldown needs to be 48h+

[Kejsaren]

20 minutes ago, z4ys said:

looking at my money and the reward you get afer sinking 1 ship its actual free 😉 who cares about 26  med 9 pds + 4* 2pds and a few repairs what is it 5 hull + 6 sail pro cycle?

If people want to sail trash ships they can sail. Not only requin. Some people dont even mods on ships, and hardly and repair and they pvp with it.

I only sail with dlc ships that have bonus slots or something extra, use mods for millions. So when i sink, my ship is not easy replaced.

[Hethwill]

*eagerly waiting for both ships to be reviewed according to ALL F11 bug testing reports I am sure everyone is making upon finding incorrect values / bad features on both ships*

Even though I walk through the reinforcement zones of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; my xebec and my hercules, they comfort me.

[z4ys]

14 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said:

Admin said no SOLs and i agree if we get proper 5th rate DLC ships cooldown needs to be 48h+

Trinc (my  baseline for proper 5th rate) = 1669 LH  with crafting parts + ship. 42LH /rl h makes it worth around 40 rl hours so lets add resource gathering and 48h cd sounds reasonable.

 

11 minutes ago, Po Tsai said:

If people want to sail trash ships they can sail. Not only requin. Some people dont even mods on ships, and hardly and repair and they pvp with it.

I only sail with dlc ships that have bonus slots or something extra, use mods for millions. So when i sink, my ship is not easy replaced.

So you either sink the enemy or you run away leaving the enemy with nothing except a bit of xp 😉 so you actual waste peoples time and deny reward. Ofc its possibel to do in any schooner before but due to the fact its a free dlc ship it feels even more trolling.

 

16 minutes ago, rediii said:

sinking a BC doesnt give you gold and marks

sinking a DLC ship does.

Both have in common that the sinking is meaningless. Lets say you captured the last WO port of an enemy so they have no access to it ( forget alts and all that shit we only look at the obvious) ship for marks and especially dlc ships make that effort a waste of time.

Edited August 2, 2018 by z4ys

[Lovec1990]

Just now, z4ys said:

Trinc (my  baseline for proper 5th rate) = 1669 LH  with crafting parts + ship. 42LH /rl h makes it worth around 40 rl hours so lets add resource gathering and 48h cd sound reasonable.

But no DLC 24pd frigates let end game frigates be craftable only so 12pd DLC frigates with 48h cooldown

[Busterbloodvessel]

10 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

Back in 1978 a friend at school turned me on to a game. I had been playing war games already for six years with my Father. This game my friend introduced to me quickly became my favorite and 40 years later it still is (I just don’t have anybody to play it with). Wooden Ships and Iron Men by the Avalon Hill game co.

   When I found this game ( Naval Action) on Steam I was very excited. I bought and played it. It has been awesome for me. My wife got sick (brain cancer) and I dropped the game for two years and in April started playing again. Absolutely love it.

until now. Admin. Developers. The Le Requin has hurt this game. Port battles are, to me, the most exciting part of this game. Now, unless you have a Le Requin, you can no longer play in shallow water port battles. In the OW you can no longer sail in the shallow waters unless you are sailing a Le Requin. Oh sure, I can still sail there but if I come across enemy in a Le Requin I lose my ships. It’s not much of a fight, it is more like the bully taking your lunch money (except it’s the Teak you need for ships).

in the model of other successful games like World of Tanks they have DLC tanks that add great value to the game but they are only average quality for their class. Look into this. Learn from this. You will make some initial money from these OP ships but you will go broke in the long run because people will start giving this game worse ratings than it already has on Steam. 

We have all paid for this game and now to play in a good amount of its content you are making us pay again and be limited to 2 ships. Very very sad. I wonder how long the majority will continue to play?

 

You make a very good point here with which I agree entirely. I don't have anything to add apart from being sorry to hear about your good ladies misfortune.

Buster ()

Edited August 2, 2018 by Busterbloodvessel

[Hethwill]

Captured a nice Belle Poule from a NPC fleet.

Cost me less than 90 minutes of gameplay.

Already has guns.

Mechanics and access to ships are woven in a web, nothing is isolated and there's always another way of achieving similar ends.

Regarding what Old Crusty posted on the OP, I know where he comes from regarding his game culture. Computer games came way after the tabletop evenings and entire weekends of great multiplayer fun with friends and strangers both at the attic or in the clubs  

The expectations of translating the "imagination" needed to run a wargame or pen and paper rpg into a computer game is always tricky but regarding the game design to simulate as best as possible the genre and setting being played is definitely the flagship especially for a historical setup - we have data and reports enough to cover as much as possible and developers are only constrained by time and tech limitations. Paper and imagination have no limits, that's why tabletop games never go away and are irreplaceable  

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Sir Loorkon said:

Both DLC ships are OP and there are so many good and objective posts about that. I wonder why they where introduced and not nerved jet because it is so obvious. It could not be money because paints and „normal“ ships would sell as good or even better and those ships will kill the game in a long run and make it p2w. Those ships are killing the fun because the OW is filled with them like it was with the Wasa when it was OP. It is so boring. I hope the ships will get nerved much faster than the Wasa was.

You can't nerf the DLC boats because there is no caveat in the dlc sales pages. This means that changing an already sold asset will give every single individual that bought them the possibility to refund since the item is no longer as it was sold.

[Hethwill]

4 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

You can't nerf the DLC boats because there is no caveat in the dlc sales pages. This means that changing an already sold asset will give every single individual that bought them the possibility to refund since the item is no longer as it was sold.

This is not true and already commented by GL admin somewhere else ( check his profile and latest posts ).