Patch 11.0: New ships, Unity 5, Improved clan based conquest, and many other changes.

[DeRuyter]

3 hours ago, Hodo said:

That video is old as dirt... the ships dont have structure HP.  

And we know that aint the case now.. if you arent sailing in a 5th rate or a Wappen 3.5 Rate then you are nothing.

Hmm do I detect a bit of sarcasm from a small ship captain.

[Sir Texas Sir]

4 hours ago, Ink said:

Rif refits modules cannot be stacked but Cotton Sails module should be stacked with rig refits, it will be checked

@Ink I kinda been wondering about this.  Can you still put them on the ship cause i can put a Bovinewinds on with a Elite British Rig Refit and I done it with other Rig Refits, but I never tried to do two Rig Refits on top of each other.  I ask this cause when you listed what couldn't be stacked you said Bovinewinds and all the Rig Refits above can't be stacked.  I keep forgetting to bring this up and get it checked.  

[Hodo]

33 minutes ago, DeRuyter said:

Hmm do I detect a bit of sarcasm from a small ship captain.

Honestly do you really think a brig sized ship (6th rate) will be useful in the current state of the game?  Outside of shallow port battles or shallow water fights?

 

[John Cavanaugh]

Just now, Hodo said:

Honestly do you really think a brig sized ship (6th rate) will be useful in the current state of the game?  Outside of shallow port battles or shallow water fights?

 

Yes. BLACK clan (Eu server) frequently takes 4th rates in small groups of 6th rates. 

Mercs, niagaras, Cerberuses, what have the got in common? Speed, heavy carro load out, and engageability- a guy in a trinco won't be afraid of a couple niagaras, but he may well get taken by them.

[Hodo]

7 minutes ago, John Cavanaugh said:

Yes. BLACK clan (Eu server) frequently takes 4th rates in small groups of 6th rates. 

Mercs, niagaras, Cerberuses, what have the got in common? Speed, heavy carro load out, and engageability- a guy in a trinco won't be afraid of a couple niagaras, but he may well get taken by them.

I dont see them often.  90% of the time I run across heavy 5th rates, and 4th rates.   And trade ships are less common than molars on a shark.   

[Captain corn blower]

Well guys I play on the PVE server maybe some day I come over to the dark side and play on the PVP server but for now I'm kind of happy but what I have noticed is a big drop in players this last week or so .maybe they have other things to do I know we all have life's but even my clan mate are getting scares and reading chat on global national forum are getting borded . the one thing that is in almost all conversation is lack of new content and and types of missions and as well as more ship even sea going music . guys like this quote it and add suggestions to it and maybe we can get more stuff add to bring new life and players to the game .we need to grow the game 

[George Washington]

18 minutes ago, Captain corn blower said:

Well guys I play on the PVE server maybe some day I come over to the dark side and play on the PVP server but for now I'm kind of happy but what I have noticed is a big drop in players this last week or so .maybe they have other things to do I know we all have life's but even my clan mate are getting scares and reading chat on global national forum are getting borded . the one thing that is in almost all conversation is lack of new content and and types of missions and as well as more ship even sea going music . guys like this quote it and add suggestions to it and maybe we can get more stuff add to bring new life and players to the game .we need to grow the game 

There must be a new update soon, people are hungry again. 

[Zoky]

1 hour ago, Captain corn blower said:

sea going music

Or my personal moto

 

Edited October 6, 2017 by Zoky

[Capn Rocko]

17 hours ago, Hodo said:

Honestly do you really think a brig sized ship (6th rate) will be useful in the current state of the game?  Outside of shallow port battles or shallow water fights?

 

The Prince is a 6th rate and it caps LGV/Indiamans easily and can get out of unfavorable situations better than the square-rigged 5th rates. Hell, we used Privateers for casual hunting before their turning got nerfed. You still see many players sailing Snows in deep water. The point is, every ship has its purpose... just because you don't see smaller ships serving YOUR purpose, doesn't mean they are useless 

[Hodo]

9 minutes ago, Capn Rocko said:

The Prince is a 6th rate and it caps LGV/Indiamans easily and can get out of unfavorable situations better than the square-rigged 5th rates. Hell, we used Privateers for casual hunting before their turning got nerfed. You still see many players sailing Snows in deep water. The point is, every ship has its purpose... just because you don't see smaller ships serving YOUR purpose, doesn't mean they are useless 

I am saying that as an individual player I see more heavy combat ships than I see anything else.  There is no balance.. no reason for smaller ships.   More so now with the gold inflation.   

[Landsman]

23 minutes ago, Capn Rocko said:

The Prince is a 6th rate and it caps LGV/Indiamans easily and can get out of unfavorable situations better than the square-rigged 5th rates. Hell, we used Privateers for casual hunting before their turning got nerfed. You still see many players sailing Snows in deep water. The point is, every ship has its purpose... just because you don't see smaller ships serving YOUR purpose, doesn't mean they are useless

 

12 minutes ago, Hodo said:

I am saying that as an individual player I see more heavy combat ships than I see anything else.  There is no balance.. no reason for smaller ships.   More so now with the gold inflation.   

I love the smaller ships ( 6-7 rates ) and sailed them alot but the problem with them in deep water is that they aren't useless per se but useless against skilled players who can reliably demast you with no issue if you don't get a good tag and stay on their stern and if you face more than one enemy ship, which is pretty common youre fu**ed more often than not... Sure hunting traders is a option but why hunt trader ships when you can get gold so much easier with other ways?

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Wraith said:

There are a couple of problems contributing to the decline in the utility of 6th and 7th rates. The first is the speed meta. It's far too easy to get a Wasa, Connie, or even Bellona up to speed cap and because they are such a heavier gun platform with more crew, even if they're glass cannon builds they're far more useful in the OW than ever before.

The second is that traders are slower (combined with the fact that there's no reason to trade) and you basically turn every open world encounter into one between warships. When I can run down a trader brig in a connie and demast it with a single broadside without really even needing to aim, why bring a privateer, especially when that connie gives me better survivability in encounters with warships?

Like @Hodo and @Landsman I hugely lament the decline in roles that smaller ships play. It's really sad to me because I'd never sail anything else if I had my choice.

Also, non-max-rank players who do sail smaller ships in groups are at a distinct disadvantage because battle rewards are not shared when you're role is to take down sails or stern camp and grape crew, which further decreases the motivation for players to sail them.  This should be changed.

 

Ship balancing is suppose to come around/with new UI. I really hope they take a good look at the speed meta and what it means to sail a bigger ship v a small one

[Rigs]

17 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Ship balancing is suppose to come around/with new UI. I really hope they take a good look at the speed meta and what it means to sail a bigger ship v a small one

Again, I'm just new, but I don't think it's right that a shallow ship with the right build can easily take down a bigger rate ship. Just stern camp, take down sails and/or smash the rudder it's way to easy for a ship that size. 

[Hodo]

44 minutes ago, Rigs said:

Again, I'm just new, but I don't think it's right that a shallow ship with the right build can easily take down a bigger rate ship. Just stern camp, take down sails and/or smash the rudder it's way to easy for a ship that size. 

If the bigger ship is commanded by a moron or a newb, then yes.  But an experienced captain can easily counter the smaller ship.   I dont know how many times I have had to turn and run because a bigger ship, like a 2nd rate has turned and caught me at a bad angle, and nearly got a broadside off on me.    A smart captain can use their ships sailing abilities to overcome the smaller ships agility.   

 

But a lone SoL is still a threat, but a much less of a threat than a 4th rate or 5th rate.   There is a reason they sailed in fleets.  

[Slim McSauce]

57 minutes ago, Rigs said:

Again, I'm just new, but I don't think it's right that a shallow ship with the right build can easily take down a bigger rate ship. Just stern camp, take down sails and/or smash the rudder it's way to easy for a ship that size. 

I wouldn't say its easy. As the small ship you're playing a game of mistakes, and as soon as you make one its your mast, rigging shock/reload shock/crew shock and you're donezo.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Rigs]

2 minutes ago, Hodo said:

If the bigger ship is commanded by a moron or a newb, then yes.  But an experienced captain can easily counter the smaller ship.   I dont know how many times I have had to turn and run because a bigger ship, like a 2nd rate has turned and caught me at a bad angle, and nearly got a broadside off on me.    A smart captain can use their ships sailing abilities to overcome the smaller ships agility.   

 

But a lone SoL is still a threat, but a much less of a threat than a 4th rate or 5th rate.   There is a reason they sailed in fleets.  

What if they are equal skill? I think that's the point. For example you can bring a bigger ship sails down in a matter of minutes. From there stern camp, grape and gg. I think there should be a steeper price to pay for maneuverability so the damage especially to the sails should be toned down.

I'm not even talking about SoL.  

Could you point me to any PvP video, preferably recent,  that shows a bigger ship taking down one or multiple smaller ships? 

[Hodo]

3 minutes ago, Rigs said:

What if they are equal skill? I think that's the point. For example you can bring a bigger ship sails down in a matter of minutes. From there stern camp, grape and gg. I think there should be a steeper price to pay for maneuverability so the damage especially to the sails should be toned down.

I'm not even talking about SoL.  

Could you point me to any PvP video, preferably recent,  that shows a bigger ship taking down one or multiple smaller ships? 

Equal skill is a myth.  But I will humor you.

If a Snow captained by a average captain is in a fight with a captain of a Trincomalee of equal skill.  It will come down to who had the wind.  But if they start at equal footing, then the Trincomalee will win in 2 maybe 3 broadsides.  

 

If we go with a larger 5th rate like the Indefatigable vs a Snow, the situation will end the same.  The Indefatigable will win 9 out of 10 engagements on equal footing.   The Snow would be hard pressed to even penetrate the hull of the Indefatigable, even the stern is pretty thick.  

[Slim McSauce]

6 minutes ago, Rigs said:

What if they are equal skill? I think that's the point. For example you can bring a bigger ship sails down in a matter of minutes. From there stern camp, grape and gg. I think there should be a steeper price to pay for maneuverability so the damage especially to the sails should be toned down.

I'm not even talking about SoL.  

Could you point me to any PvP video, preferably recent,  that shows a bigger ship taking down one or multiple smaller ships? 

 

[Rigs]

11 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

I wouldn't say its easy. As the small ship you're playing a game of mistakes, and as soon as you make one its your mast, rigging shock/reload shock/crew shock and you're donezo.

 

4 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

 

I am new but I don't think you will ever take down a bigger ship like that. No sail shots? 

[Rigs]

12 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Equal skill is a myth.  But I will humor you.

If a Snow captained by a average captain is in a fight with a captain of a Trincomalee of equal skill.  It will come down to who had the wind.  But if they start at equal footing, then the Trincomalee will win in 2 maybe 3 broadsides.  

 

If we go with a larger 5th rate like the Indefatigable vs a Snow, the situation will end the same.  The Indefatigable will win 9 out of 10 engagements on equal footing.   The Snow would be hard pressed to even penetrate the hull of the Indefatigable, even the stern is pretty thick.  

If you go after the hull in the smaller ship you done, period. The damage to the hull small vs. big it's fine, the problem is the sail damage, the bigger ships should have more sail hp. In my mind at least.

[Slim McSauce]

Here's an example from a top player.

Take note that this is a 2v1 and it took around 50 minutes. Now imagine how hard it would be to do on your own without help within the battle timewindow

Edited October 6, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Rigs]

32 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

I wouldn't say its easy. As the small ship you're playing a game of mistakes, and as soon as you make one its your mast, rigging shock/reload shock/crew shock and you're donezo.

Rattler vs. Surprise, both extremely good at PvP in their own category, equal skill players who do you think wins most of times? And that is only 1 rate difference. Add in the mix for example the art of proper ship handling.

Added to that, the bigger the ship the more punishes the lack of experience or skill, hence again something else that goes in favor to smaller ships.

The reason I am mentioning "equal" skill players is because I want to eliminate that variable and just talk about ship balancing.

I think some balancing it's needed when it comes to crippling a bigger ship sails/rudder.

[Slim McSauce]

5 minutes ago, Rigs said:

Rattler vs. Surprise, both extremely good at PvP in their own category, equal skill players who do you think wins most of times? And that is only 1 rate difference. Add in the mix for example the art of proper ship handling.

Added to that, the bigger the ship the more punishes the lack of experience or skill, hence again something else that goes in favor to smaller ships.

The reason I am mentioning "equal" skill players is because I want to eliminate that variable and just talk about ship balancing.

I think some balancing it's needed when it comes to crippling a bigger ship sails/rudder.

The surprise most definitely have the advantage. More guns, better sailing profile and 6 6pd chasers compared to the rattlers 2 4pders.

And big ships do have more sail hp which you can see in the port screen.

If a rattler was so much better than a surp then everyone would be using it for PVP instead of surps

Edited October 6, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[DeRuyter]

22 hours ago, Hodo said:

Honestly do you really think a brig sized ship (6th rate) will be useful in the current state of the game?  Outside of shallow port battles or shallow water fights?

 

Maybe not sadly, but I found it ironic that the comment came from someone who used to be a big small ship advocate.

[Hodo]

20 minutes ago, Rigs said:

If you go after the hull in the smaller ship you done, period. The damage to the hull small vs. big it's fine, the problem is the sail damage, the bigger ships should have more sail hp. In my mind at least.

As someone else already said, larger ships do have more sail hp.   If I am correct the sail HP is often the same as the side armor HP unmodified.   

So if the ship has 3000 hp on the side, it will have 3000hp for the sails.   

A  smart captain will sit at his best range and obliterate the smaller ship.   I know I have done it.   A while ago, about 6 - 9 months ago, I was sailing in my Essex, when a player attacked me in a Rattlesnake.   I moved out to about 700m and proceeded to pick him apart with my long guns.   His carronades were useless at that distance and I had enough downwind speed to keep the distance.  

 

Second point.  

In my Lynx, I engaged an Indefatigable with the help of a friend in a Renomee.   After 1 hour and 25min we managed to get him down to we could board him.    He was a bad captain and a horrible sailor, he should have by all means destroyed both of us.   I even made a mistake that brought me along side of him at about 200m in my Lynx.   If he had been paying attention or not panicking he would of sunk me or demasted me right then.   

 

The stern chasers on a lot of bigger ships are larger than anything on most 6th rates or smaller, and hell the stern chasers on a SoL has more firepower weight than the whole broadside off of a Privateer.