Repeated Tagging Issues

[Guest]

I want to preface this by stating clearly that I am not upset or angry with any of the players or clans in the following screenshots, I am merely concerned about the current mechanics. This is not an attack on anyone involved, so please don't take it that way. 

Okay, so here's the situation. I had an initial battle outside Mortimer Town, and after it ended, I got hit 6 times in a row by revenge fleets. I was able to escape in the end, but only because I happened to have a large supply of rig repairs, and also because the chase lasted almost 5 hours, and people eventually gave up to go to bed. A few clan mates also showed up to distract some of the waiting captains, which finally ended this mess. I linked screenshots of the 6 fleets here - http://imgur.com/a/GmOsI

 

Here's my take on the current mechanics. Yes, I was directly outside an enemy capital, and there should be extreme risks for sailing into enemy waters. I completely agree with that. However, It is frustrating that there is no way to end the cycle of these revenge fleets. I am lucky that I had the 5 hours necessary to keep trying to escape, because otherwise I would have been forced to give up and surrender. This is not the first time I have encountered persistent revenge fleets, but up until now I could typically escape in 1-2 hours. This time, the enemy had enough captains to create a complete ring around the battle, meaning I would never be able to get away with only 30 seconds of invisibility, no matter how many times I manage to escape in battle. 

 

This strikes me as huge problem, and I know other captains have posted on the forums voicing their concerns on this issue. We need some sort of solution, that actually rewards escaping from battle.  

I have seen lots of suggestions on a possible solution, and in my opinion some of the best are:

• Increase invisibility slightly - We should try 1 min.
• Some sort of temporary OW speed buff - Also lasting around 1 min.
• Keep or increase the inability to attack or be attacked - 2 min or maybe a slight increase.

 

Anyway, my main point is to show @admin that this desperately needs some sort of fix. Most people don't have 5 hours to spend getting attacked again and again. Normally I want to hunt for 2-3 hours in my spare time, but with the current mechanics, that would be completely impossible. 

 

Lastly, to those that say "don't go to capitals", I have two responses. 

1.  It is extremely hard to find PvP away from capitals, and in many parts of the map, it is completely impossible.
2. I have been revenge fleeted by 11 players in the gulf of mexico, far away from any capital port. They pulled me into 4 different battles before I was finally able to escape, and that took at least 3 hours. This can happen anywhere if there are enough players around. 

 

I would love it if people would post their suggestions on how to fix this problem, because I believe this issue is seriously disabling PvP for everyone right now. 

 

 

 

[Daguse]

Man that sucks, and should not happen! 

I agree with your suggestions. However, I would add that each additional tag on you within 15-30 minutes of the last battle should increase your invisibility by half a minute. 

[Archaos]

Remember to try looking at it from the other point of view. You are outside another nations capital where a lot of new players operate, and I do understand that this is where you a lot more PvP, but if it is too easy to escape the revenge fleets then that is all people would do, camp the capitals. I remember the times when it was almost impossible to get out of KPR because of the fleets of other nations ships that were waiting outside. They were almost impossible to get rid of because you did not know how long they would wait in the after battle screen or if they had logged off or not, so basically they could hit a few ships and when people got organised to fight them off they would just log for a few hours till people got bored looking for them and then reappear. Now there are a few regular raiders that hit the area, but if they hang around too long people eventually get mobilized and chase them off.

I can understand your problem and agree that having to evade revenge fleets for 5 hours is not fun if you do not have the time to spare, but even the term "revenge fleet" indicates that you have done something to upset them, probably because you snagged a juicy trader and people want revenge.

I do not think there is an easy solution but any solution must consider both sides. Maybe what Daguse suggests above could help, but care must be taken that it is not exploitable.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Archaos said:

Remember to try looking at it from the other point of view. You are outside another nations capital where a lot of new players operate, and I do understand that this is where you a lot more PvP, but if it is too easy to escape the revenge fleets then that is all people would do, camp the capitals. I remember the times when it was almost impossible to get out of KPR because of the fleets of other nations ships that were waiting outside. They were almost impossible to get rid of because you did not know how long they would wait in the after battle screen or if they had logged off or not, so basically they could hit a few ships and when people got organised to fight them off they would just log for a few hours till people got bored looking for them and then reappear. Now there are a few regular raiders that hit the area, but if they hang around too long people eventually get mobilized and chase them off.

I can understand your problem and agree that having to evade revenge fleets for 5 hours is not fun if you do not have the time to spare, but even the term "revenge fleet" indicates that you have done something to upset them, probably because you snagged a juicy trader and people want revenge.

I do not think there is an easy solution but any solution must consider both sides. Maybe what Daguse suggests above could help, but care must be taken that it is not exploitable.

I completely agree, there should be a risk associated with going to an enemy capital. I would just like to point out what I mentioned at the end, I have had this type of thing happen in the gulf of Mexico, which is far away from any capital. Currently this can happen anywhere, if there are enough players that don't feel like letting you get away. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Daguse said:

Man that sucks, and should not happen! 

I agree with your suggestions. However, I would add that each additional tag on you within 15-30 minutes of the last battle should increase your invisibility by half a minute. 

I'm going to try to keep a summary of the suggestions. Could you clarify yours? 

The way i'm reading this, if i'm within 15-30 minutes of having left a battle (#1), being tagged into a new battle (#2) will provide an extra bit of invisibility upon escaping battle #2.

Is that correct?

[Skully]

As I have said many times in the past, log-off after battle is a mandatory option to have.

Otherwise my options to simply stop my gaming session are very limited.

 

[RaimundoJoe]

The easiest solution is to have a cool down period after a battle. This, is allready in place when u exit a port, there is a cooldown period of 2min before u can join a battle. Why not make a cool down after a battle? Lets say that 5 min after a battle you are "untouchable", and if you get invisibility for that period then u definitely can sail away from revenge fleets.

Edited July 8, 2017 by AxIslander

[Archaos]

30 minutes ago, Skully said:

As I have said many times in the past, log-off after battle is a mandatory option to have.

Otherwise my options to simply stop my gaming session are very limited.

 

Problem is that this is open to abuse by people who do not need to log off to end their gaming session, but just wish to avoid the revenge fleet. They log off and wait till the heat dies down then reappear and continue hunting. We had this sort of thing prior to the wipe with a group of pirates up in Bermuda, who would appear hit a few people doing missions and once a force gathered to combat them they would log off for a few hours then appear again.

Imagine a group of players with several alts doing this in several regions, that way they could continue their raiding uninterrupted by logging off one character and logging in another in a different area.

Maybe if you could not attack anyone for 30 minutes after logon at sea without first going into port then this may work. To an extent this may solve the revenge fleets and has the effect of stopping people continuously camping outside a capital or other area. 

[Skully]

25 minutes ago, AxIslander said:

The easiest solution is to have a cool down period after a battle. This, is allready in place when u exit a port, there is a cooldown period of 2min before u can join a battle. Why not make a cool down after a battle? Lets say that 5 min after a battle you are "untouchable", and if you get invisibility for that period then u definitely can sail away from revenge fleets.

And sail your own fleet, coming out of battle, into the perfect invisibility gank.

Invisibility gives a huge advantage after battle. http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15575-the-definitive-battle-screen-ganking-guide/

(Although it needs renaming to the battle instance ganking guide. )

[Skully]

3 minutes ago, Archaos said:

Imagine a group of players with several alts doing this in several regions, that way they could continue their raiding uninterrupted by logging off one character and logging in another in a different area.

Read the log-off message: "Exit in open world is not safe and your ship can drift to unusual and dangerous places".

@Ink should really make up his mind which way to fix this bug. 

[RaimundoJoe]

6 minutes ago, Skully said:

And sail your own fleet, coming out of battle, into the perfect invisibility gank.

Invisibility gives a huge advantage after battle. http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15575-the-definitive-battle-screen-ganking-guide/

(Although it needs renaming to the battle instance ganking guide. )

guess, u did though about this more that i did.

[Thonys]

well if log off after battle is implemented ...

it should also give a warning to the waiting party (surounding circle for the ships involved in battle [data battle -> ow timer, for those particular ships]) that the enemy" retreated "

otherwise, the waiting party is also waiting for hours for the enemy to show up [ a enemy who does not exist anymore in the game] (also a very annoying situation)

[beagleplease]

48 minutes ago, Archaos said:

Maybe if you could not attack anyone for 30 minutes after logon at sea without first going into port then this may work. To an extent this may solve the revenge fleets and has the effect of stopping people continuously camping outside a capital or other area. 

i think this is the solution tbh, right now i cant go hunting unless i have all day free and tbh i don't want to spend 5 hours running away from people who clearly dont value their time.

i had like 15 plus spanish players chase me for around 4 hours, absolutely ridiculous tbh how do these people have nothing better to do?

my only solace is that while thats 4 hours of my time it was a combined 60 or more for them..

[Thonys]

59 minutes ago, beagleplease said:

 

  53 minutes ago, Archaos said:

Maybe if you could not attack anyone for 30 minutes after logon at sea without first going into port then this may work.

 

i think this is the solution tbh, right now i cant go hunting unless i have all day free and tbh i don't want to spend 5 hours running away from people who clearly dont value their time.

i had like 15 plus spanish players chase me for around 4 hours, absolutely ridiculous tbh how do these people have nothing better to do?

my only solace is that while thats 4 hours of my time it was a combined 60 or more for them..

2

it can be a solution but.......in 10 minutes you can reach a port so it does not have to be that long...

what also can be a solution is when tagged into battle  and escape, and when entering ow you are visible in the open water, but for everyone you have an invulnerability timer for 4 minutes in that time, you can log off  (what everybody can see)

its your choice play , or end the game...

if you quit , well that can be seen then as the end of the chase......period..

if you log in after that within 30 minutes you are in( ow )direct visible and attackable.

or just invulnerability for 3- 4 minutes with a 25% extra after battle speed boost(for only aggressed/ tagged ships) to outrun fast taggers (chicken mode to the nearest port), in this time you can also log  off,> (at ow on the spot without raising sail.. if you raise sail ,you have to sail, and have to run)

now first initial tag becomes very very important now if you are not doing it right you will loose it from the beginning...

 

Edited July 8, 2017 by Thonys

[Zoky]

As a late joiner to that party I completely agree that revenge fleets are out of control. But I don't support logging off or teleport to friendly port. Instead devs could tweak invisibility little more. And no I'm not saying that OW should be fair place, i'm actually die hard supporter of free OW! And while we at it devs should also look at uber accuracy of stern chasers compered to bow chasers, especially with chains. In that last battle would have caught you if not for that utterly stupid decision form devs to make stern chasers laser accurate with chains.

P.S. How many rig repairs do you carry, and how do they not slow you down? 

[Zooloo]

My suggestion : When you escape battle you respawn in a random place xxx meters away, with a safety limit of xxx meters away from any shore.

[gorven]

This topic is absolutely ridiculous if you go to the nations capital then suffer its your choice to go there. What after a battle in front of a capitol that you may have sunk a bunch of traders give me a break. If you dont want chased after a battle then the devs should give you the option to scuttle your ship.

[Liq]

^ lold

[Rychu Karas]

2 hours ago, gorven said:

This topic is absolutely ridiculous if you go to the nations capital then suffer its your choice to go there. What after a battle in front of a capitol that you may have sunk a bunch of traders give me a break. If you dont want chased after a battle then the devs should give you the option to scuttle your ship.

Carebear way of thinking. DONT come to our neighbourhood. DONT disturb us. DONT do ANYTHING except eco or missioning.

sincerely pvp eu server.

FU...

Thats true, the current ROE mechanisc is a fakin joke.

On the leaving from each battle should be possibility to safe LOG OFF. without a risk to be ganked again, and again andagainendagain&again!!!11111

Edited July 8, 2017 by Rychu Karas

[Archaos]

7 minutes ago, Rychu Karas said:

On the leaving from each battle should be possibility to safe LOG OFF. without a risk to be ganked again, and again andagainendagain&again!!!11111

But you should not be able to log back in and almost instantly start attacking people, without first returning to port of waiting a suitable length of time.

[Rychu Karas]

2 minutes ago, Archaos said:

But you should not be able to log back in and almost instantly start attacking people, without first returning to port of waiting a suitable length of time.

Why not, I mean, emergency log off could be implemented with the cooldown, 4-6h.

[Archaos]

1 minute ago, Rychu Karas said:

Why not, I mean, emergency log off could be implemented with the cooldown, 4-6h.

The reason you should not be able to log back on and instantly resume attacking was explained in an earlier post. But basically comes down to the fact that an enemy vessel has been attacking shipping in your waters, as news goes round other vessels mobilize to hunt this enemy down. With the current game mechanics while the enemy is attacking one target the hunt fleet can assemble and wait for them to come out of battle which then leads to the endless tagging chase that can last for hours and is not conducive to good gameplay especially if people are restricted on time. But if you allow the enemy log off after the battle the hunters eventually disband and go off to do other things which allows the attacker to log back on and resume attacking, there is very little risk for the attacker, when in reality they would have been chased off by the increased activity, thus my suggestion that they have to return to port or wait a suitable length of time before they can attack again.

[akd]

That'll teach you to PvP!  Go back to your capital and PvE like you are supposed to.  PvE Conversion Fleets are doing their work.  

 

Easy fix: 2 min invulnerability on exit if you don't move.  Can log-off or teleport to nearest port (worthless TP if outside enemy ports).  No join / no attack for 2-30 min after logging back in at sea. Could also add no join timer to TP so it can't be used to jump into PBs.

Edited July 8, 2017 by akd

[Daguse]

6 hours ago, EliteDelta said:

I'm going to try to keep a summary of the suggestions. Could you clarify yours? 

The way i'm reading this, if i'm within 15-30 minutes of having left a battle (#1), being tagged into a new battle (#2) will provide an extra bit of invisibility upon escaping battle #2.

Is that correct?

Correct, but the idea is it should continuously harder to retain someone. 

[Liq]

1 hour ago, Archaos said:

But you should not be able to log back in and almost instantly start attacking people, without first returning to port of waiting a suitable length of time.

so have a 10 min 'you cannot attack others or join battles' for 10 min timer when logging back in