Hotfix 1 for patch 10.3

[Luc]

1 hour ago, Otto Kohl said:

It has been discussed million times. There is nobody outside my batte when i attack, but attacked player can magically talk to other captains that are miles away and call for help, then those captains magically using time warp sail those miles and camp the place where you are fighting your battle. Then magically using time curvature you appear in the same place and time when you finish your battle .

If you remove ALL forms of communication between players (its impossible) the current system would be ok, but the fact is - it doesnt work ane need to be changed.

so cancel in game communication between player in battle and player outside the battle

[Thonys]

1 minute ago, Luc said:

so cancel in game communication between player in battle and player outside the battle

in that case they use other forms like ts or discord 

so its not a issue

[Koltes]

Yes yes yes! Mechanic IS broken! Mkay?! No one agrues. We cant marry up to existances that live in different times. No point to bring historical facts. They wont work.

Basically one side wants 2 min timers and safe pass home. Waltz into nation capital, tag a newb, kill him and sail away. If they get retaliated then its a signaling perk that makes it fair for them. Kinda lame in my solo PVPers opinion, but ok. Whatever.

The other side wants to be able to drive your lot away, help newbs, support each other. Communicate. Hunt you (and frankly me too) down. Long timers to join battles and help the newb and ability to gank.

I see no point discussing how mechanic is broken because of existence of instances. They exsist. We need to live with it and get over it.

The easiest way to balance both sides is:

Battle stay open for 10 mins, but join circles keep drifting apart after 2 mins thus increasing distance between gankers and the battle in the instance. Why join in the first place if you appear that far away? Well you are helping newb arent you? And you would not approach the battle invisibly. People inside thw battle MUST see you alproaching and you still giving newb a chance.

Save exit should not be 100% safe, but should be possible. You already have 30 seconds invisibility and this sorts 40% of revenge ganking issues. The other 40% percent will be sorted if you exit in OW not where you entered the battle, but where you exited the instance, then it doesnt matter where the battle cross is. The rest 20% is where you get your ass kicked because you where so bold that you sailed slow ship outside enemy capital or did some other dumb thing. We all do.

Why this has to be a problem where people dont accept compromises??? 

[TommyShelby]

4 minutes ago, koltes said:

Yes yes yes! Mechanic IS broken! Mkay?! No one agrues. We cant marry up to existances that live in different times. No point to bring historical facts. They wont work.

Basically one side wants 2 min timers and safe pass home. Waltz into nation capital, tag a newb, kill him and sail away. If they get retaliated then its a signaling perk that makes it fair for them. Kinda lame in my solo PVPers opinion, but ok. Whatever.

The other side wants to be able to drive your lot away, help newbs, support each other. Communicate. Hunt you (and frankly me too) down. Long timers to join battles and help the newb and ability to gank.

I see no point discussing how mechanic is broken because of existence of instances. They exsist. We need to live with it and get over it.

The easiest way to balance both sides is:

Battle stay open for 10 mins, but join circles keep drifting apart after 2 mins thus increasing distance between gankers and the battle in the instance. Why join in the first place if you appear that far away? Well you are helping newb arent you? And you would not approach the battle invisibly. People inside thw battle MUST see you alproaching and you still giving newb a chance.

Save exit should not be 100% safe, but should be possible. You already have 30 seconds invisibility and this sorts 40% of revenge ganking issues. The other 40% percent will be sorted if you exit in OW not where you entered the battle, but where you exited the instance, then it doesnt matter where the battle cross is. The rest 20% is where you get your ass kicked because you where so bold that you sailed slow ship outside enemy capital or did some other dumb thing. We all do.

Why this has to be a problem where people dont accept compromises??? 

Several compromising suggestions have been made between some of the people who are against revenge flwets and some who supports it. Maybe not to your liking but the suggestions have been made.

[Nelson Hornblower]

Easiest solution to the ganking problem -

• If a ship is attacked and the battle rating of the other ships is 25% more than defender, those other ships do not get any prizes (gold, marks, experience). Only the ship that sinks it does
• Defender ship, gets gold and experience depending on how much damage it was able to cause to all ships. This gold/experience gets multiplied per number of ships. You get ganked by 7 ships, you get 7x the amount of gold/exp you would typically receive. 
  • In essence, makes being ganked worth it for the defender and they get richer
• In this situation, both sides "win" the ganking fleet can feel proud they brought 7 ships into a battle and the defender gets something for being unfair matched.

Battle rating is irrelevant, when it's a 1v1 Pvp regardless of battle rating. 

[Koltes]

7 minutes ago, rediii said:

The thing i want is that you go fullspeed whatever the wind is while you are invisible so atleast it's not known in which direction you flee.

That or invisibility increased back to 1 min.

Why was it reduced? 

[Daguse]

45 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

"Just remember back in the 1800s, it took weeks and months for this ships to go anywhere."    Exactly.  So in the "instance-based" system we have, if  you either defeated or got away from the enemy, you should have a "reasonable chance" surviving or at least be able to finish your gaming session.    Instead, we have a system where people up to a 2-game day sail can come and camp your battle, which is also very conveniently marked on the OW for you.

I cant understand how some people cant see how broken this is...   

Its basically like this:

- Report enemy ship in Nation chat

- Tag ship (any ship) and dont engage, but just keep tagged...

- Confirm in Nation chat that your group of 10 ships is in a 1 min. diameter circle around battle

- Allow tag to expire, forcing player to decide whether to immediately leave (although know that the reason that person stopped tagging him was because the "home defense fleet" is set up, or wait the 15 mins to get kicked into the OW...  (which at least you waste a bit of their time, yay...)

- A "good" player may be able to escape one or two of these scenarios...  NOBODY can escape 5-6 of them, which is what actually happens.

Its broken and I know myself and about 3 others in my clan have played basically zero hours since these mechanics have been adopted.

I dont need to not be "ganked"...  I need mechanics that reward my willingness to find PvP and escape "ganks"...  

The game is either "instance-based" or its not....  

The thing is the game is both instance based "battles" and not "ow". And just cause I plan around it doesn't mean I don't think it's broken. I just don't want to go back to an old system that is just as broke. 

So how do we fix it. How do you pervert revenge fleets while still preventing gang fleets, and allowing players to defend their waters? 

Everyone has something to say about how every move the devs take is wrong, yet no one has a balanced solution. 

Ie. I want to safely be able to attack players and then tp to a port so they can't do anything about it. 

 

[TommyShelby]

2 minutes ago, Daguse said:

Ie. I want to safely be able to attack players and then tp to a port so they can't do anything about it. 

Well 1 example of a suggestion made was to make it so only the defenders get the option to TP to port.

Another example of a suggestion was to make the TP tò port option BR based. So if you attack someone and you have 1.5x BR of the person/group you attack, you don't get the TP to port option. However if you have 1.0 BR then you do get the option. (Numbers are arbitrary)

Gankers gets revenge ganked and those who engage in "even" battles don't. 

[Daguse]

Just now, rediii said:

@TommyShelby and me already worked something out. From memory:

- teleport back to capital is possible if all conditions below are true:

Battle is no Outlaw battle or pve battle

your team is the defender (got tagged)

I think that was all? Tommy?

 

This way gankfleets have to face the revengefleet once but if they escape it once they can teleport to port.

 

This also kills griefing of big ships with small ships (multiple tagging until they are fed up and quit game)

So now I can tp half way across the map with cargo hold full of goods. Tp is not going to fix it, it will be miss used. 

[AlteSocken]

If anyone would leave to ow with the last position from the instance, I'm pretty sure most of the revenge-ganking would not happen.

But Admin stated that it is impossible to place players into the ow with instance positions. It was mentioned that a problem could occur placing players on shallows, since they are not known in the instance. But maybe, if solving this would be a promising soluition to the gankster-issue maybe it's worth the devs invest some time to figure out if that positioning-problem is solvable @admin?

 

[Daguse]

1 minute ago, TommyShelby said:

Well 1 example of a suggestion made was to make it so only the defenders get the option to TP to port.

Another example of a suggestion was to make the TP tò port option BR based. So if you attack someone and you have 1.5x BR of the person/group you attack, you don't get the TP to port option. However if you have 1.0 BR then you do get the option. (Numbers are arbitrary)

Gankers gets revenge ganked and those who engage in "even" battles don't. 

So you sail into enemy waters, and then tp back home after attacking a trader.. Seems like something for exploitation. 

 

What about increasing invisibly to 2 minutes but also making all other ships invisible to you as well. You have 2 minutes to get the hello kitty out without being attacked and you can't use that to stack ships. 

[Daguse]

3 minutes ago, rediii said:

what? you get sent to next freeport or national port like before. No choosing where you get teleportet ofc...

He said capital. And then we go back to the hid in Port, pop out when coast is clear and do it again game 

Edited June 27, 2017 by Daguse

[TommyShelby]

Just now, Daguse said:

So you sail into enemy waters, and then tp back home after attacking a trader.. Seems like something for exploitation. 

 

What about increasing invisibly to 2 minutes but also making all other ships invisible to you as well. You have 2 minutes to get the hello kitty out without being attacked and you can't use that to stack ships.

Please read again because that is not at all how it would work with any of the 2 examples...

The problem with invisibility is that previous testing has shown that it can be abused like hell. This is why I prefer the other solutions.

[Daguse]

2 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

Please read again because that is not at all how it would work with any of the 2 examples...

The problem with invisibility is that previous testing has shown that it can be abused like hell. This is why I prefer the other solutions.

Tp can be abused as hell. Port popping and moving traders. 

To my knowledge dual invisibility has not been tested. 

Edited June 27, 2017 by Daguse

[Elbizor]

2 hours ago, Otto Kohl said:

Please repair OW PvP. Current state is unacceptable and does not fit to announced by you "we want people to go pvp".

To do list:

- fix the PvP rewards, they are DRASTICLY too low;

- Revenge fleets (inverse ganking), we need ANY way to safely exit the battle;

- Lack of "fair fight" factor - signaling perk;

- Some kind of tp to freeports (for example with long, even 3-4h cooldown).

 

Please look into it and do something. I really belive that i speak on behalf of many devoted PvP-ers.

 

its movin towards an RvR game now, and all the better for it.

[TommyShelby]

1 minute ago, Daguse said:

Tp can be abused as hell. Port posing and moving traders. 

To my knowledge dual invisibility has not been tested. 

You can't tp with stuff in the hold. First exploit gone.

The fact that people can abuse the system using alts is another thing. If someone is caught doing it they should be properly punished.

 

What do you mean, "dual invis"?

[akd]

I suggested a compromise that at least avoids game-killing flaw of holding players hostage to the computer:

5min forced exit to OW when battle is over.  On exit you have 30-60 seconds invisibility (I think problem of 60 sec invis was exaggerated) and 2min invulnerability if you don't move.  What does that mean?  On exit you can use invisibility to try and run or you can use 2min stationary invulnerability to TP to nearest deep water port or simply log-off on open sea (but you must make that decision almost immediately on exit).  Logging back in at sea should give long no-attack, no-join timer.  Players then have an option to quit playing after a battle (and remember, generally the more fair a battle is the longer it lasts) that is not a get out of jail free teleport (unless near a friendly or neutral port), as their position is known.  Home is defended as long as home defense fleet actually remains a fleet in being in the area.

 

Also, bring back signal perk with 1.5x BR reinforcement.

Edited June 27, 2017 by akd

[Daguse]

1 minute ago, rediii said:

let me tell you again.

You can go back to the closest friendly port if you are the defender of the battle and its not pve/outlaw battle.

So I go to enemy waters with my indy, buy shit, head out, have my alternative attack, bam shit ton of money with low risk. Tp doesn't work. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

48 minutes ago, Thonys said:

first part is good

but the second part is is a no go  "maybe only allow pirates to teleport to free towns?"

I'm a pirate and I don't even want it....

47 minutes ago, Otto Kohl said:

Just allow to have only up to 5th rate ships in freetowns, so they wont be used for conquest purposes.

No they are suppose to be trade hubs between nations. If any ships are left in there and there is any silly teleport than it should be only trade hubs.  You should not be able to leave any war ships in free ports.  They are once again meant to be trade hubs not home base for any fighting forces Pirates or National.  The warships can pop in and resupply but not stay there when you are not in the port yourself.

[TommyShelby]

Just now, Daguse said:

So I go to enemy waters with my indy, buy shit, head out, have my alternative attack, bam shit ton of money with low risk. Tp doesn't work. 

No tp with cargo. Ez fix gg

[Daguse]

Just now, TommyShelby said:

You can't tp with stuff in the hold. First exploit gone.

The fact that people can abuse the system using alts is another thing. If someone is caught doing it they should be properly punished.

 

What do you mean, "dual invis"?

So I can't keep the stuff I took from the enemy ship? What's the point. 

 

Dual invisibility, if you pop out of a battle, you are invisible and you can't see anyone else 

[Daguse]

2 minutes ago, rediii said:

What does this change? It's even worse for the guys revengeganked.

How, attackers can't use it to follow ships, defenders are safe. If it's increased to 2 minutes it would mean the hunt would have to start over from a new location. 

[TommyShelby]

2 minutes ago, Daguse said:

So I can't keep the stuff I took from the enemy ship? What's the point. 

 

Dual invisibility, if you pop out of a battle, you are invisible and you can't see anyone else 

Make a limit on how much cargo you can have, Ie 50 weight so you can TP with your repair kits and such.

[Kanay]

Tp's to free towns removed is one of the best changes they done in game, was pleasantly surprised to see this when coming back from a long break. Expanding territories and starting actions from your owned cities should be the norm to give a purpose to conquests.

Having one faction sitting at a corner of the map, far from your Nation, able to spawn a full fleet of big ships at your door and raiding a capital in less than 10 minutes was the most broken and stupidest mechanic in this game.

 

Edited June 27, 2017 by Kanay

[TommyShelby]

1 minute ago, Kanay said:

Tp's to free towns removed is one of the best changes they done in game, was pleasantly surprised to see this when coming back from a long break. Expanding territories and starting actions from your owned cities should be the norm to give a purpose to conquests.

Having one faction sitting at a corner of the map, far from your Nation, able to spawn a full fleet of big ships at your door and raiding a capital in less than 10 minutes was the most broken and stupidest mechanic in this game.

 

Keep it.

Thats not what is being discussed.

What Is being discussed it what should happen once a battle is over.