Ai shooting double charge and double shot

[kitsunelegend]

Last night, I picked up a master com mission to gain a little xp and push myself into flag captain rank. I was thinking it'd be fairly easy, cause the last two mission saw me completely wipe my enemy away with taking only moderate damage and using only about 40% to 50% of my hull repairs/rum.

 

However...when I entered the battle just outside Charlston SC, I was greeted by a surprise...it was literally THE Surprise (pun only slightly intended lol) Now, at first, I thought "oh boy! An even match! This'll be fun!" Only to realize half way through the engagement that he was completely wrecking me and handing my butt back to me on a silver platter... Thing is, I went in with an Oak Frigate that had crew space... ALL carros on all decks (32pds on the bottom) and yet...he was doing more damage to me in most cases than I was doing to him... I was making sure to get as close as I could to make sure my carros would hit home... I was scratching my head the entire time trying to figure out HOW he was doing so much damage to me, cause it looked like he was only using mediums...

 

Then it hit me. I remembered hearing someone had encountered an AI ship that completely destroyed them even though the player should have had the advantage... because the AI had been using double shot and double charge to MASSIVE effect. Now, with me being in a Frigate, I thought I'd have the advantage...but yet this Surprise, who was probably made of fir like MOST AI ships, was not only matching me in strength but was being a massive pain to actually kill...

 

So, I checked the shot logs. And low and behold, it showed the AI shooting BOTH double charge and double shot (from both cannons and carros I might add), quite frequently in fact.

 

I was HOPING for an even fight. But THIS? This was anything BUT an even fight. I ended up using ALL of my repairs, both rum and hull repairs, the battle ended up being dragged out to nearly 1.5 hours, and I ended up losing a good chunk of crew and MOST of my ship's armor...

The ONLY reason I killed him is cause he screwed up at one point and I was able to land an entire broadside straight into his stern, completely wrecking what armor was there and killing a large amount of his crew.

I understand wanting to give the players a challenge, but this is just stupid. All of this, on top of the fact the AI seemingly gets large bonuses to performance, makes for battles to be extremely stressful, long, frustrating, and just... BAD.

 

This needs to be looked into, and fixed. The AI should not have access to double charge and double shot, all while having laser like accuracy and a hugely buffed reload, all with a 100% boarding prep.

 

Oh, and I almost forgot, some of the angles I saw them shoot their cannons at were....100% unrealistic. I saw this Surprise shoot his rear chasers at an almost 90 degree angle from his stern. Something that NO player is able to do.

Devs, fix your shit.

Edited June 24, 2017 by kitsunelegend
edited second screenshot for better clarity

[Odol]

As it has been brought up a dozen times before, the @admin  the logs are WAY out of date and no longer supported by the actual game.  So the information displayed is not accurate at all.

So I would ignore it, because the AI does not fire Double charge or Double shot out of a Caronade.   BUT it does have access to EVERY perk and mod and uses them.

[kitsunelegend]

35 minutes ago, Odol said:

As it has been brought up a dozen times before, the @admin  the logs are WAY out of date and no longer supported by the actual game.  So the information displayed is not accurate at all.

So I would ignore it, because the AI does not fire Double charge or Double shot out of a Caronade.   BUT it does have access to EVERY perk and mod and uses them.

To me, that sounds like nothing but an excuse and a way to just ignore an issue, which the devs have proven time and time again to ALWAYS do. So saying that the logs are "out of date" and are "no longer supported by the game" does not convince me at all in regards to this. Because what I saw last night in terms of being damaged felt EXACTLY like being shot with double charge or double shot.

[Cecil Selous]

But why did the shot log got updated with the information about the various angles and if you use double charge or double shot? Cause this wasn't shown in the earlier versions. Before this got introduced into the shot log there already was the talk of the log not being up to date, though it was updated with new information. But now it is still not up to date? Why update it then if it isn't useful and shows wrong information? I hope my point comes across. I am just curious about it.

AI is also still shooting there stern chasers in an almost 180 degree arc and can hit me, when I am sailing beside them. But devs say, that the AI doesn't cheat. These are the small things that makes me believe that this isn't the whole truth.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Cecil Selous

[Zoky]

What really gets me is how AI cerberus can do more damage per shot then my indef with 42pd carros! Its crazy 

[Sir Texas Sir]

Clan mate reported the same thing right @Willis PVP2 about them shooting double charge out of Carros.  Admin pretty much told him to learn the game....what the hell is that responce?

Well I only seen it do this one time and it was on a smaller light ship and I had no problems.  Well I wanted to grind some fleets and I brought my aggy and a new one I just built to make it a bit easier since I have done 4th rate fleets solo.  See the mix of 4 ships (kinda low) and think well the Ingermanland will be the hard one, but hell I taken out Connies, Indefatibales and Endymions no problem solo with my aggy, I should be able to do this like a cake walk.   I do my pass send the other Aggy after the Endymions as it was going away from the pack. I'm draw off the Connie cause I tend to bounce it shots and take little damage before I sink them....I get a full broad side and notice a lot of my armor and structure is gone and connie starts that one shot thing instead of waiting for the full reload.   I look at the battle log as I'm no a tick armor left and 1/3 of the structure gone.  I hit repair tell my AI to retreat that has taken very little damage and get the hell out of that mission.  

I"m sorry that felt like he was doing insane damage to me and seeing his 12 pb where doing 56-78 damage and even more with the 24's no wonder he was melting my armor (max thickiness on the Aggy).  Yah I think something is glitchy with the AI some times.  

[William Death]

I don't care if the damage and penetration values are correct (which, by the way, the penetration is somewhat correct, because it does give you an idea if you are able to penetrate whatever you are shooting at [masts], but the damage done is incorrect), that is mostly irrelevant for this discussion.

What is relevant is the fact that the cannon and ammunition type displayed IS correct. When you fire a broadside of double-ball, you see it listed as double ball. When you fire a broadside of double-charge, you see it listed as double-charge. The log separates the cannons by decks, so if you have carronades, those will display separately in the log and be seen to shoot regular ball (a player's carronades CANNOT shoot double charge or double ball). It seems the AI can do something in battle that players cannot do: fire double-shotted and double-charged carronades. 

Ok, I reported this on forums too and got told the shotlogger is not updated and I should learn how to play the game (I have over 2000 hours and have NO PROBLEMS beating up the npcs LOL, it is just frustrating when you see the AI doing things you can't do).

 

[Werewolf]

Trump/obama/putin, etc

[Captain corn blower]

I have had same thing happened to me shot logger is not out of date .  I was coming a long side and taking steam chaser hit. And took a beating from a trader brig ,  I think that's the way they won't it .as was told to me just escape . REALLY. !!!!

[ltdan83]

I had no problem killing AI before this latest patch and now they shred my armor.  Seems like they are bouncing way less shots than before as well.  I guess I should l2p, I love how admin is so friendly and helpful to players.

[Pad Seayew]

Don't worry you can just escape and you'll still have a bit of XP and....money....scratch that,  nevermind. 

[Luc]

Same Problem here. I saw this misterious surprise too. It hits me very Bad. Did a lot more damage than my 18pd longs. Even from a decent distance..... flying dutch

Edited June 30, 2017 by Luc

[Malachy]

Almost every post captain mission is two surprises now. And they do more damage per shot than my Connie. I usually end up using 30 plus repairs and end the battle at about 25 percent health. I'm more concerned about going up against AI than another player. Players don't do max damage every shot and have perfect aim. I used to tell noobs that defeating AI was nothing like fighting a player. Now if a noob can survive the AI, they have a damned good shot at beating a player.

[Norfolk nChance]

On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 3:45 AM, Odol said:

As it has been brought up a dozen times before, the @admin  the logs are WAY out of date and no longer supported by the actual game.  So the information displayed is not accurate at all.

So I would ignore it, because the AI does not fire Double charge or Double shot out of a Caronade.   BUT it does have access to EVERY perk and mod and uses them.

 

The BulletLogs.txt file is a lot easier to read. @Odol is correct in the function hasn't being updated since late 2015. However I believe its the Penetration angels and threshold planking with the angle of the shot that doesn't work. The Ship cannon load outs are correct to the deck and the ammunition fired. I've had this checked several times against opponents like Never Dead Ned. But not carros I confess here.

I noticed doing missions POST Captain, that the Connie or Indef I came up against, had an inexhaustible amount of Double Charge. Just did a Trinc now and nothing default shot used Double Ball once. The difference was like chalk n cheese. I will try to pull the log on a mission and try to back calculate how much special ammo a Connie uses...

This is different from poor player or sour grapes, and the problem is not consistent either. It is noticeable when it happens.

Norfolk.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Norfolk nChance

[Quineloe]

On 24.6.2017 at 9:45 PM, Odol said:

As it has been brought up a dozen times before, the @admin  the logs are WAY out of date and no longer supported by the actual game.  So the information displayed is not accurate at all.

So I would ignore it, because the AI does not fire Double charge or Double shot out of a Caronade.   BUT it does have access to EVERY perk and mod and uses them.

I don't get why people keep dismissing the shot log. It's an artifact, but it does work. The damage received fits with the description. If it says the AI is shooting double shot, then it actually did shoot double shot. There information may not be perfect, but it probably isn't completely wrong.

 

[William Death]

10 hours ago, Quineloe said:

I don't get why people keep dismissing the shot log. It's an artifact, but it does work. The damage received fits with the description. If it says the AI is shooting double shot, then it actually did shoot double shot. There information may not be perfect, but it probably isn't completely wrong.

 

Exactly! 

The shot type is correct. So is the "penetrated for damage" or "not penetrated for damage." The damage values given, I suspect, are not correct; so I ignore those. But the penetration yes/no confirmation that I get when I look at the shot log is correct. That is how, for months, I have been learning how to demast: I fire a single shot from a deck at a certain range and if it shows a penetration in the shot log, I know that, with enough hits, the mast will come down from those cannon. If I don't get the confirmation from the shot log, then I know that the cannons I'm shooting aren't doing effective damage at that range and I can turn that deck off.

So, in short, I doubt the damage values are correct, but the shot type, cannon type, and penetration yes/no I do believe to be correct. This is just what I've noticed in my own testing.