naval no action

[Vllad]

6 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Revenge fleets are just a lazy way to play this game.

You do not want to go to sail somewhere with your big fleet, you would probably actually just lose it.  Instead you are very interested to gank someone.  You want to know where the battle is and waste no time sailing there. 

 

Actually revenge fleets is not lazy but smart. You have to exert a zone of control and port battles don't do that. You need large fleets at sea to do that. In my nation we keep large roaming fleets at sea to patrol when traders are making their runs. When they get jumped we run to the area to kill that captain. He needs to know their is a price to pay for coming to enemy waters. Dead ships and the cost of repairs make those invaders stop coming back. 

When I go raiding into enemy territory if the defenders are lazy and allow me to kill their traders or jump solo ships without retribution I will keep going back. When I exit and their is a fleeting waiting for me that is when the real fun begins. Sometimes I get away. Sometimes I don't. When I do however that is when this game is at its best. I snatched my ill gotten gains and got away with it!

If I can't jump a nations fleets solo then I bring my clan. Now the revenge fleets have to fight for their lives to kick us out. If we exert enough control, beat enough traders, sink enough ships we have now exerted control over that area. Possibly to the point where they don't come back. Now we can set it up for an invasion. 

You guys joined nations why aren't you fighting with them? If you go out and run into a revenge fleet then where is your fleet to counter it?

This is an RvR game, mass fleet battles should be par of the course. The fact that some of you are shocked that you ran into mass amounts of fleets just tells me you guys have no clue how this game is supposed to be played. The fact that you haven't learned by now to counter such tactics says more about you then it does the game. 

 

 

 

 

 

[admin]

6 minutes ago, Blackjack Morgan said:

. I know if they had a server that offered pretty much the pre-wipe features I'd be on it lol.

which would be?

[Vllad]

17 minutes ago, SeaHyena said:

 

But I do understand why they need to exist, people need to get a pat on the back and feel all better about losing a ship by getting revenge immediately with enemy having no chance of escaping. 

Actually you couldn't be more right. Their has to be a penalty for going to enemy waters and fighting. If you get caught you deserve what you get and the nation catching you deserves a pat on the back for squashing you and teaching you some valuable lessons. This is how RvR works. You name the RvR title and they all had the same mechanics. 

The less restrictions you put on OW PVP the better the RvR components are. 

You players that hate it just haven't thought it through. 

[admin]

14 minutes ago, Kaos said:

Pull the plug on OW already and let's move on to next project, trust me - nothing better than a fresh start after all that baggage!

no. This game has a huge potential in Korea, China and Japan
Also we will fix some of the things that are limiting fun in getting to pvp. 

[Slamz]

15 minutes ago, admin said:

Because according to our greenlight promises we are done. We did all we promised long ago. 10 ships, open world, port battles, basic crafting, basic trading, ability to upgrade the ships.

This is why I go the extra mile to defend and promote this game in online forums. I poked my whole guild to go upvote this game on Steam recently, as a result of someone else getting the word to us that it was needed. We're not [SORRY] in size but we can do our part. You've gone the extra mile on this game -- extra 100 miles -- and are still going when you didn't have to. If you just fulfilled the basic gameplay promises I think we'd have all quit by now. We would have said "that was fun but not enough content or long term gameplay, what a shame" and that would have been the end of it.

We're still here because you obviously enjoy your own game and are turning it into something that keeps looking better. Open world gameplay is 100% better today than it was back in March 2016. Some ideas still need thinking about (marks, especially) but you already know that so no sense in pushing on it.

I hope you keep up the good work and I hope this game gets another 100,000 sales soon. Looking forward to release, maybe a little advertising and hopefully a load of new blood. 9/10ths will probably be mad and scream on the forums and quit for one reason or another but the other 1/10th will find a game worth enjoying, maybe for a long time.

 

Nothing makes a PvP guild appreciate a good PvP game like years and years of struggle to find a game that's actually hard core and where death [and therefore politics] actually matters. If we wanted shallow, easy-money, rainbows-and-sprinkles gameplay, we would have never quit Guild Wars 2.

[Sureshot]

Just now, Vllad said:

Actually you couldn't be more right. Their has to be a penalty for going to enemy waters and fighting. If you get caught you deserve what you get and the nation catching you deserves a pat on the back for squashing you and teaching you some valuable lessons. This is how RvR works. You name the RvR title and they all had the same mechanics. 

The less restrictions you put on OW PVP the better the RvR components are. 

You players that hate it just haven't thought it through. 

Yes sir, you are awesome! Correct, this is suppose to be realistic age of sail game. You are absolutely right, revenge fleets need to be in game. They existed in age of sail and they are needed. Players will quit if they have to sail all the way to enemy territory to get revenge, it is much better to get revenge by sitting on top of enemy battle instance and then repeatedly tagging them. 100% right, it's not cancerous at all to the game. 

[surfimp]

1 hour ago, admin said:

 For example fully stocked repairs in free towns. Aren't they a beauty. All fully player driven. Cities where people buy them a lot will continue to buy them. Cities where is no pvp around will be fully stocked and wont buy anything. 

And, you can get a "read" on how good or bad an area is for PVP by dropping some hull repairs in the local free town and seeing how quickly (or if at all) they sell.

It can be hard to find good hunting grounds if you are not a clan player, but it is not impossible and - importantly - it is part of the fun of the game. The puzzle of figuring out what works and what doesn't. Nothing except a Basic Cutter is handed to you, the rest you have to figure out on your own. I like it that way, even if sometimes I am crying (figuratively) in frustration.

[Kaos]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

no. This game has a huge potential in Korea, China and Japan
Also we will fix some of the things that are limiting fun in getting to pvp. 

I understand this game's appeal towards Koreans and Chinese mmo markets since Korean mmo's probably inspired NA grind but I thought Japanese only liked to play fast paced arcade anime games?

Anyway what are those things you plan to fix that will increase fun?

[King of Crowns]

38 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

You called revenge fleets realistic.

realistic - resembling or simulating real life
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/realistic

"Hey Nelson come teleport here, I've got two French Frigates on my butt".

do you really want the open world speed to be the same in battle speed. do you really want the top speed of a vic to 8 knots and take up to 3 hours to reach that speed? do you really want to take 20 mins to make a tac in battle? answer: hell no. so enjoy the fact that the devs have given us things that improve quality of life over real life. change the way you play the game. and your time argument makes sense about revenge fleets. HOWEVER. your not accounting for all the turning and other bs you do in battle that slows you down/ changes your direction.  so ships that would bee sailing by the battle would actually catch up. to some degree.  just change the way you play the game to fit the new patch and you guys wont be having such a hard time. btw life on global server seems to be much better. come on over. ill give you a ship with guns.

[JeanJacques de Montpellier]

2 minutes ago, SeaHyena said:

Yes sir, you are awesome! Correct, this is suppose to be realistic age of sail game. You are absolutely right, revenge fleets need to be in game. They existed in age of sail and they are needed. Players will quit if they have to sail all the way to enemy territory to get revenge, it is much better to get revenge by sitting on top of enemy battle instance and then repeatedly tagging them. 100% right, it's not cancerous at all to the game. 

Revenge fleet is also one way not funny to play. Only shit. 

[Cmdr RideZ]

17 minutes ago, Vllad said:

Actually revenge fleets is not lazy but smart.

There could be also escorts, right?

It could be done so that you would need to actually catch them, not just spawn on them.

[Liq]

7 minutes ago, Vllad said:

This is an RvR game, mass fleet battles should be par of the course. The fact that some of you are shocked that you ran into mass amounts of fleets just tells me you guys have no clue how this game is supposed to be played. The fact that you haven't learned by now to counter such tactics says more about you then it does the game. 

wowowowo now calm down sir. Prettymuch everyone in OCEAN has at least 2.5k hours on naval action, most even 3 - 3.5k+.
It's NOT strictly an RvR game. It's a sandbox. You are not forced to do those dull 25v25 hull smashing competitiions in port battles if you dont want to, but are given the option to privateer if you prefer doing so.
Right now, if your clan has the zerg capacity to deal with revenge fleets, good on you. But IMO thats just lame.

9 minutes ago, Vllad said:

Actually revenge fleets is not lazy but smart. You have to exert a zone of control and port battles don't do that. You need large fleets at sea to do that. In my nation we keep large roaming fleets at sea to patrol when traders are making their runs. When they get jumped we run to the area to kill that captain. He needs to know their is a price to pay for coming to enemy waters. Dead ships and the cost of repairs make those invaders stop coming back. 

If the ships were protected / protecting themselves properly, that would be smart. But not just camping on an exact battle location after getting an emergency phonecall, in teh age of sail! *realistic*, *hardcore*. ye right

In my books, hardcore / realistic means you need to be careful on where you go and in what manner, you don't get a second chance to sink someone if he escaped, but also don't have to deal with such an unrealistic crap as revenge fleets. 

[Liq]

6 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

do you really want the open world speed to be the same in battle speed. do you really want the top speed of a vic to 8 knots and take up to 3 hours to reach that speed? do you really want to take 20 mins to make a tac in battle? answer: hell no. so enjoy the fact that the devs have given us things that improve quality of life over real life. change the way you play the game. and your time argument makes sense about revenge fleets. HOWEVER. your not accounting for all the turning and other bs you do in battle that slows you down/ changes your direction.  so ships that would bee sailing by the battle would actually catch up. to some degree.  just change the way you play the game to fit the new patch and you guys wont be having such a hard time. btw life on global server seems to be much better. come on over. ill give you a ship with guns.

I dont want open world speed to be reduced; but there needs to be something which gives players a fair chance of leaving safe and sound after ESCAPING / finishing a battle. Having to escape twice, being surrounded by in-teleporting ships, meh, not quite my idea of hardcore / realistic.
Waiting for Arena at this point as it seems like we're talking with a wall.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Liquicity

[admin]

5 minutes ago, Kaos said:

I understand this game's appeal towards Koreans and Chinese mmo markets since Korean mmo's probably inspired NA grind but I thought Japanese only liked to play fast paced arcade anime games?

Anyway what are those things you plan to fix that will increase fun?

there is no grind. We just want full knowledge unlocks to belong to truly dedicated players (but it will get adjusted soon)

I had to start 5 characters last 3 weeks to test some changes rookie experience.
Every character had like 200-300k by 3rd day by doing almost nothing (except for some trader robbing and missions and some pvp near havana)
And you get into a snow after 3 hours.

[Slamz]

9 minutes ago, Vllad said:

If you go out and run into a revenge fleet then where is your fleet to counter it?

This. ^

"Revenge fleet" = a lot of ships sitting on the open sea.

Just sitting there.

Waiting to be attacked.

Any old enemy fleet that wanders by will just find them sitting there. Dead in the water. Asking for it. Revenge fleets are really just open world PvP opportunities waiting to happen if more people were out there PvPing and perhaps coordinating a bit better. Worst case it's a big generator of suspense and tension to wonder if I'm going to be able to escape this battle.

40 minutes ago, admin said:

I want all battles to be open for 1 hour so they can deteriorate into a huge exciting mess by the end with lots of back and forth.

I do think this could be interesting, but I have never figured out a good solution for how ships should spawn in. I don't want enemies to run to a "reinforcement zone". I don't want them just popping in based on where they enter the battle from which could put them right on top of me after I've sailed for 5 minutes in the instance. I don't especially want them spawning in front of me, either.

I think if you could come up with a universally good way for people to join late that does not convey what looks like a magical advantage in the instance, people might go for it. [Well, duelists will never like this. They are never happy unless it's guaranteed 1v1.]

[King of Crowns]

1 minute ago, Liquicity said:

I dont want open world speed to be reduced; but there needs to be something which gives players a fair chance of leaving safe and sounds after ESCAPING / finishing a battle. Having to escape twice, being surrounded by in-teleporting ships, meh, not quite my idea of hardcore / realistic.
Waiting for Arena at this point as it seems like we're talking with a wall.

then go to a place where there wont be as many players that can respond. go hunt  in the Yucatan or the Bahamas or in central americia. go kill brits at cartigina. move ur clan away form the capital or ports where the major clans are based out of.  or just come to global server.  be sure your in the right ships. I keep telling you solutions ur just not willing to accept any of them.

[Hethwill]

Agree with all that revenge fleet and flying fallout constitutions and whatever assassins creed mumbo jumbo... it is really odd.

I want as credible as possible. We cannot simulate real life.

All corsairs and raiders that when around britain and ireland, french or yank for example, pick whichever name or ship you like the most, did also have to evade deployed RN patrols to the point of capture, being sunk or evading, there's more listed names being captured and prizes being recaptured than the ones that got away. They didn't exactly exit to outpost. 

This argument is a tug of war. Let's let it rest and test. 

[Benass]

3 minutes ago, admin said:

there is no grind. We just want full knowledge unlocks to belong to truly dedicated players (but it will get adjusted soon)

I had to start 5 characters last 3 weeks to test some changes rookie experience.
Every character had like 200-300k by 3rd day by doing almost nothing (except for some trader robbing and missions and some pvp near havana)
And you get into a snow after 3 hours.

And if lucky you will stay in that snow for few days. Most likely NOT.

[Sureshot]

4 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

then go to a place where there wont be as many players that can respond. go hunt  in the Yucatan or the Bahamas or in central americia. go kill brits at cartigina. move ur clan away form the capital or ports where the major clans are based out of.  or just come to global server.  be sure your in the right ships. I keep telling you solutions ur just not willing to accept any of them.

I wish you could go to other places and find consistent PvP than capitals but that's not the case right now. Ignoring revenge fleets now is only going to get worse when we have more players on PvP servers.. And Idk why this always becomes about "our clan" we aren't the only ones talking about revenge fleets on the forum. If you read the last 20 topics on it. 

Edited June 16, 2017 by SeaHyena
Fix

[Kaos]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

there is no grind. We just want full knowledge unlocks to belong to truly dedicated players (but it will get adjusted soon)

I had to start 5 characters last 3 weeks to test some changes rookie experience.
Every character had like 200-300k by 3rd day by doing almost nothing (except for some trader robbing and missions and some pvp near havana)
And you get into a snow after 3 hours.

There is no grind, okay.

Why don't you invite a friend who has not played your game yet and let him loose in your game and observe if he has as much success as you do from the get go because you obviously already know all the tricks and tips.

[Vllad]

15 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

It's a sandbox. You are not forced to do those dull 25v25 hull smashing competitiions in port battles if you dont want to, but are given the option to privateer if you prefer doing so.
Right now, if your clan has the zerg capacity to deal with revenge fleets, good on you. But IMO thats just lame.

This statement proves my entire point. The PB's are just a small part of RvR. It is what you do in the open water that matters more than the Port Battles. The fact that you can't see this is why you are frustrated. 

Plus the fact that you think it is lame we found a way to counter revenge fleets just tells me your entire argument is void. 

I play in a clan of 15 members and we kill revenge fleets. We do that by working with our nation and other clans. Zerg requirements not necessary. This game is not a sandbox it is a massive RvR game and the minute you start playing it properly NA OW mechanics will start to working for you as intended. 

You joined a nation. Start using that nation. 

 

Edited June 16, 2017 by Vllad

[King of Crowns]

1 minute ago, SeaHyena said:

I wish you could go to other places and find consistent PvP than capitals but that's not the case right now. Ignoring revenge fleets now is only going to get worse when we have more players on PvP servers. Ignoring problems because we don't have full servers right now is pretty stupid. And Idk why this always becomes about "our clan" we aren't the only ones talking about revenge fleets on the forum. If you read the last 20 topics on it. 

the first sentence here is your problem. you want constant pvp with no gaps but you don't want people to respond to your presence by putting together a defense fleet to catch you. you want to hunt in the most populated areas of the enemy nation with minimal risk. YOU CANT.... not anymore. whats the difference if you spend 2 hours searching for that trader/ lone ship in the Yucatan or if you spend it running from a revenge fleet? you location on the map while your killing players will dictate how many enemy's can respond to your presence.  you cant sail right into a nations stronghold and gank and expect there to be some defense put together.

 

[Cmdr RideZ]

27 minutes ago, admin said:

which would be?

I think that when you introduced hostility system, decent amount of people left.  Also you introduced lot of other things that did not work too well.  It was pretty big patch if I remember correctly.

The flag system created so much more RvR PvP than the hostility system.  I remember one conversation from that time.  Guy said that he thought that the game was almost finished, ready for launch, only some small fixes here and there.  Now this is like totally different game, and ~all is worse than before.

I think this was the tournament version.  Not sure tho.

[King of Crowns]

3 minutes ago, Vllad said:

This statement proves my entire point. The PB's are just a small part of RvR. It is what you do at in the open water that matters more than the Port Battles. The fact that you can't see this is why you are frustrated. 

Plus the fact that you think it is lame we found a way to counter revenge fleets just tells me your entire argument is void. 

I play in a clan of 15 members and we kill revenge fleets. We do that by working with our nation and other clans. Zerg requirements not necessary. This game is not a sandbox it is a massive RvR game and the minute you start playing it properly NA OW mechanics will start to working for you as intended. 

You joined a nation. Start using that nation. 

 

you have a good point. if your clan is to small to counter revenge fleet then perhaps you need to do some recruiting or change your hunting location. the game will not go back to what it was (hopefully)

[Sureshot]

Just now, King of Crowns said:

the first sentence here is your problem. you want constant pvp with no gaps but you don't want people to respond to your presence by putting together a defense fleet to catch you. you want to hunt in the most populated areas of the enemy nation with minimal risk. YOU CANT.... not anymore. whats the difference if you spend 2 hours searching for that trader/ lone ship in the Yucatan or if you spend it running from a revenge fleet? you location on the map while your killing players will dictate how many enemy's can respond to your presence.  you cant sail right into a nations stronghold and gank and expect there to be some defense put together.

 

Whatever, I don't care anymore. Revenge fleets didn't exist back in the age of sail, but they do in NA. If people weren't lazy and would get off their asses and go to enemy territory and revenge fleet them by raiding them it would make a lot more sense. But whatever, I don't give a rats ass anymore. I spent 5k hours testing this game and the fact we are still having debates over revenge fleets just absolutely makes me laugh hysterically. The cringe is so real right now. Yeah I know, teleporting revenge fleets are good for the game, I've heard that story enough.