Thoughts on making a PVE server viable

[Ruthless4u]

As is, the PVE server is not viable in its current form to stay open. My thoughts on making it viable.

1. Aggressive AI. Without risk there is no reward, which for the typical gamer means no fun. Aggressive AI can go a long way into making PVE more interesting and worthwhile. Sailing by several dozen of what should be enemy warships without a thought really does nothing for the gameplay.

2. Port battles. One thing the PVE server lacks is PB's.  In Sid Meirs( sp?) pirates AI nations would capture ports, I can see no reason why it should not be a feature here. This would allow players in PVE to experience port battles, intercept AI invasion fleets, and a reason to own 1st rates outside of random AI fleet encounters in the OW. Of course AI should be able to capture ports as well, and players capture AI ports.

3. A.I nations declaring war on each other. Gives a reason to attack AI fleets, and offers more variety in missions. Intercepting troop transports, supply ships trying to sneak past blockades, smuggling oppertunites to warring nations.

4. Legendary pirates. I know it's not exactly realistic, but offering missions that feature bounties on legendary pirates could be fun and hunting them down challenging.

5. More mission variety. It's one area that seems very lacking. Blockade running, escort, invasion fleet intercept, shipping contracts, etc. 

I realize some of these things are being worked on, but these are my thoughts on making PVE more viable. I also feel these ideas can be applied to the PVP server.

 

Thoughts?

[delaine]

tbh if agressive ai came back it would make them long arse sails from one of the map to the other much more instresting isnted of starting a trip going afk getting logged because 30min afk timer returning and afking some more 

[Sir Texas Sir]

8 minutes ago, delaine said:

tbh if agressive ai came back it would make them long arse sails from one of the map to the other much more instresting isnted of starting a trip going afk getting logged because 30min afk timer returning and afking some more 

But that isn't what they want, they will bitch and complain most likely if they got attacked by any one including AI.  Though dev did speak of aggressive Privateers NPC attacking folks in OW so that might be a thing we see some time in the future.   Don't think it's going to be any patch soon though.

[Ruthless4u]

21 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

But that isn't what they want, they will bitch and complain most likely if they got attacked by any one including AI.  Though dev did speak of aggressive Privateers NPC attacking folks in OW so that might be a thing we see some time in the future.   Don't think it's going to be any patch soon though.

I don't see how PVE only server can be viable without some form of risk. This game is advertised primarily as a combat game, whether it's against AI or PVP the primary focus should remain to its original intent.

[Sir Texas Sir]

13 minutes ago, Ruthless4u said:

I don't see how PVE only server can be viable without some form of risk. This game is advertised primarily as a combat game, whether it's against AI or PVP the primary focus should remain to its original intent.

And I think the majority of the players want something like that and were ok with the merger, it's the minority that we keep hearing scream about the merge.  Those are the same guys that keep posting they just want to be able to point a ship and sail off into one direction while doing there yard work or something.   These are the same guys that want an offline mode or single player mode too.  This game is a MMO that is based on Naval combat.   Doesn't seem to be much combat over there.  Just a bunch of folks gathering resources and such.  I get the need for a zone, but to me a whole server is a waste.  They can be working on those AI for every one on one server instead of having to tweeked them for two different servers.

[Bubba Smith]

I have thought of what matters to many players within our clan and these are a few areas I have noticed they appreciate most about NA- PvE:

1) as friends we collaborated work on building, battle challenges and text discussions. We have formed an excellent, close supportive clan that became a family. We help all new-comers with gold, ships, upgrade, ranking, etc. Every opinion counts and often great ideas came from the newest member. 

2) open up more blue prints to higher level crafters L-40 and up. Again I found more complicated the ship-building the more each member pulled together to help out. 

3) group challenges including port battles will be a big attraction. Many have spoken of the interest in this area!

4) slightly increased AI for each battle challenge will drive sea warfare, with RA challenges being very tough. 

5) more ranks and crafting levels; example above Rear Admiral, maybe Vice Admiral and even Admiral, Admiral of the Fleet, etc. Each rank can have more crew and ships for trader caps. Crafters could attain elite status (L50a-z) with lower cost-Labour hours, reduced prices for materials, higher level shipyard, etc. 

6) some ship fleets sailing around sometimes are huge with Battle Ratings of over 2000. Most player won't chase after these. I suggest smaller fleets of up to a BR of 1200 max will allow more engagements with booty payouts in proportion to the BR rating. Even BP drops, paint jobs, nice upgrades (gold monkeys wink, wink, etc).  Epic fleet battles are a good idea in this area. 

Just a few suggests, I hope it helps. 

 

Edited April 1, 2017 by Buba Smith

[LeBoiteux]

4 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

And I think the majority of the players want something like that and were ok with the merger, it's the minority that we keep hearing scream about the merge.  Those are the same guys that keep posting they just want to be able to point a ship and sail off into one direction while doing there yard work or something.   These are the same guys that want an offline mode or single player mode too.  This game is a MMO that is based on Naval combat.   Doesn't seem to be much combat over there.  Just a bunch of folks gathering resources and such.  I get the need for a zone, but to me a whole server is a waste.  They can be working on those AI for every one on one server instead of having to tweeked them for two different servers.

When AI aggressiveness was on, back in 2015 when there was only one type of server  (PvP/E), I've never heard any PvE-ers complain about AI aggressiveness. It was removed at PvP-ers' request who didn't want to be tagged by bots (they said that being tagged was "a waste of time"). See e. g. :

Admin said AI aggressiveness had to be removed till bots were able to chase in OW.

However, AI aggressiveness has never been removed at PvE-ers' request.

On the other hand, AI aggressiveness could be designed to target only those who want it. Some thoughts on it :

 

Edited March 29, 2017 by LeBoiteux

[BoomBox]

5 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

But that isn't what they want, they will bitch and complain most likely if they got attacked by any one including AI.  Though dev did speak of aggressive Privateers NPC attacking folks in OW so that might be a thing we see some time in the future.   Don't think it's going to be any patch soon though.

as LeBoiteux stated above , not the pve-ers wanted the ai aggro tuned down back then , it was the pvp-ers. It was a viable point though. The ai attacked a lot , making getting to port battles a mess. Kept splitting group etc. A lot of pve-ers wanted to keep it but it was only one server back then and so it was removed.

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, BoomBox said:

as LeBoiteux stated above , not the pve-ers wanted the ai aggro tuned down back then , it was the pvp-ers. It was a viable point though. The ai attacked a lot , making getting to port battles a mess. Kept splitting group etc. A lot of pve-ers wanted to keep it but it was only one server back then and so it was removed.

Wasn't speaking of those guys I'm speaking of the guys now.  A lot of the guys that been complaining on here and steam against the merge of PvE/PvP brought things up like , "I don't want to be attacked while I was AFK sailing from point A to B."   Though I'll be honest the AI back than sucked pretty bad and we weren't ready for that hot mess, but maybe the Devs got them worked out a bit more.  I'll be more than happy with them in OW myself.   Makes you keep on your toes instead of just looking for players to attack or that might attack you.  They really need to get things better sorted so they can move on to content like missions and such.  This game is lacking so much of a story or content to keep the players.  I think that is prob why they loose so many players early on and the fact the early stage of the grind is pretty hard on folks.

[Fluffy Fishy]

Reading this thread back kind of feels similar to a situation where the pope is offering sex tips. Regarding the point about AFK sailing is more towards how long it takes to get anywhere in the game, where people want to enjoy and enable themselves to play the game but it takes more time than they can commit. PVE players aren't scared of AI aggressiveness, it just makes the game less attractive as it limits gameplay for these people in the same way that PVP does. The painting of PVE players by the PVP community as a bunch of filthy casuals is pretty unfair as a whole, just like it is to call the PVP community salty and immature.

Responding to some of the other points made above:

• Port Battles:
  • PVE players actually would like to take part in port battles, it seems fairly split whether it should change map ownership or not though, its likely that port raids would suit PVE better, something supposed to be due fairly soon.
• More Mission Variety:
  • To me this represents a fairly false economy unless it allows for better use of different ships, using the same ships, Agamemnon, l'Ocean ect. in different types of missions wont create much more of an interest, ship versatility and mission variety need to go hand in hand to work in an appealing matter.
• More Ranks:
  • I like this idea but lets not forget that actually having more ranks in the mid section is also quite viable, currently there are some quite awkward jumps like post to flag captain where you go from 350-650 crew.
• Big Fleets:
  • This is generally accounted for by epic events, large fleets also seem fairly frequent, although not as frequent as they once were but the idea of a fleet with 6 santissima and 6 victory does look kind of silly.
• Harder AI:
  • Do you remember the patch where AI was actually a harder opponent than nearly all humans? I remember seeing most the complaints from there coming from PVP players, I quite enjoyed the difficulty, especially once I got used to the AI being able to target you with almost 100% accuracy from any distance without even using a ranging shot.

as a finishing point lets not forget that the maintenance of the PVE server is for the benefit of PVP players too, the PVP community was about to lose a huge portion of the map but also find themselves in a difficult position where Britain France and Spain become vastly more appealing to a certain type of player, giving them a pretty nice advantage over the other nations like the Dutch, US and Pirates.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Fluffy Fishy

[LeBoiteux]

3 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Wasn't speaking of those guys I'm speaking of the guys now.  

Back then, IA aggressiveness was on. So it's interesting to know what PvE-ers thought of it while actually testing it...

3 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

 A lot of the guys that been complaining...

let's avoid talking for the others or a "majority", shall we ? And let's test features. 

[delaine]

18 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

But that isn't what they want, they will bitch and complain most likely if they got attacked by any one including AI.  Though dev did speak of aggressive Privateers NPC attacking folks in OW so that might be a thing we see some time in the future.   Don't think it's going to be any patch soon though.

tbh comming from someone who actualy plays on the pve server i can say i would like it tbh and at oen time i did suggest in clan chat that pve get pbs and the defending force would be all first rates of different types 

[Sir Texas Sir]

10 hours ago, LeBoiteux said:

Back then, IA aggressiveness was on. So it's interesting to know what PvE-ers thought of it while actually testing it...

let's avoid talking for the others or a "majority", shall we ? And let's test features. 

I"m not talking for them, I'm stating what I seen in post from here and on steam of the guys that are complaining.  Which those guys are the minority as most of us on the forums are the small percentage of the game. I agree the devs should just put things on testbed and than announce them so we can test them instead of letting us have a bitch fest for a week or two and than they decide to change things.  That has been happening way to much lately with little to no new content.  Last patch that wasn't some hotfix was back in December.....that is way to long to go without any game changes when so much as been broken and needing fixed or changed.  Kinda glade they aren't doing the merger at this time cause it means the have to us less resources for the next patch changes and we might get at least the testbed early.   Though I still think for this game to work in it's current state the one server with PvP-PvE zones will be the best for the game and it's population so they can work on content on one server and be done with it.  By the announcement folks aren't getting they stated they will work on the PvE stuff...."AFTER RELEASE."  Which means your not getting anything new that isn't going to be for the PvP server mainly.

2 hours ago, delaine said:

tbh comming from someone who actualy plays on the pve server i can say i would like it tbh and at oen time i did suggest in clan chat that pve get pbs and the defending force would be all first rates of different types 

I actually had a lot of guys in game say this, guys from PvE that have recently popped over to either try out PvP server or cause they where just flat out bored over there on PvE server.   I started out doing mainly PvE/Trading on PvP server and rarely got tagged by any one cause i was smart about where I would sail and yes I did some AFK trips but that was across open water and rarely if ever even saw some one.  I'm all for some better AI changes myself, but it's not the majority that we hear on steam and the forums that bitch and complain (and I don't mean just on this topic).  Hell many of the guys that post we known have stated they have stopped playing or you rarely see them in game any more, but they keep hanging around putting in there two cents.

[delaine]

that is sad but true there texas :l nd i actualy did primarly play pve did my econ and sorts never really considered doing pvp but hey only time can tell what they do eh?

[LeBoiteux]

13 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I"m not talking for them, I'm stating what I seen in post from here and on steam of the guys that are complaining.

(...)

By the announcement folks aren't getting they stated they will work on the PvE stuff...."AFTER RELEASE."  Which means your not getting anything new that isn't going to be for the PvP server mainly.

I wonder what you see in posts as Admin's announcement is :

On 28/03/2017 at 6:34 PM, admin said:

In addition to that we have not mentioned it before - but we are developing additional PVE content and new types of missions for PVE players. 
AI will be worked on after release and will provide more challenge in the future.

meaning, unless you have additional tips or I misunderstood Admin, that there will be two phases in PvE development :

1) right now (ie before release)  devs are currently "developing additional PVE content and new types of missions for PVE players".

2) after release, devs will work on AI.

Besides, devs have always stated (till now at least) that the PvE server was to have the same content as PvP servers (except for player tagging and PB), meaning PvE-ers on the PvE server wouldn't get "anything (new) that isn't going to be for the PvP server mainly" (as you wrote).Meaning : till further notice, PvE content will be implemented on both PvE and PvP/E servers. However, it seems that there will be PvE content someday soon.

Edited March 30, 2017 by LeBoiteux

[Ruthless4u]

14 hours ago, LeBoiteux said:

I wonder what you see in posts as Admin's announcement is :

meaning, unless you have additional tips or I misunderstood Admin, that there will be two phases in PvE development :

1) right now (ie before release)  devs are currently "developing additional PVE content and new types of missions for PVE players".

2) after release, devs will work on AI.

Besides, devs have always stated (till now at least) that the PvE server was to have the same content as PvP servers (except for player tagging and PB), meaning PvE-ers on the PvE server wouldn't get "anything (new) that isn't going to be for the PvP server mainly" (as you wrote).Meaning : till further notice, PvE content will be implemented on both PvE and PvP/E servers. However, it seems that there will be PvE content someday soon.

So more of the same, and a year from now people will still be confused as to why the PVE  server will still be dead.

[AngryPanCake]

I mean, seriously! It is clear that someone has some unresolved beef against PvE and/or PvE'ers! or is it maybe just PvE'ers? After baseless blame that not shutting down the PvE server is going to slow down the progress of the game development, he never stops...now this:

On 3/28/2017 at 7:19 PM, Sir Texas Sir said:

But that isn't what they want, they will bitch and complain most likely if they got attacked by any one including AI.  Though dev did speak of aggressive Privateers NPC attacking folks in OW so that might be a thing we see some time in the future.   Don't think it's going to be any patch soon though.

Not only this individual, who of course is entitled to share his opinion, continues to insult players that have in no way done anything to him, but has also been so frigging negative about the development of this game, and "no patch anytime soon" and whatever else can come out of his brain. What I am most impressed (or should I say saddened) with is how someone can be so prolific with over 2,300 piles of horse manure! and still going strong and find more reasons to be negative about.

On 3/29/2017 at 2:26 AM, Sir Texas Sir said:

"I don't want to be attacked while I was AFK sailing from point A to B."  

Please provide a link to this particular post, support your claims with facts and stop spewing unfounded allegations. And even if this was an "actual" statement from a poster, does he/she speak for all the rest of the PvE community? You chose that particular statement and you pegged all of us with it. And yes, being a PvE player, I feel insulted by your persistent immature contempt towards players, whose only fault is to not play the way you do.

On 3/29/2017 at 5:01 AM, Hethwill said:

Play and let play  no ?

Sometimes, just sometimes, and right now is one of them, pvp community becomes so cold and bitchy and acid that shuns Players ( yes you read it right ) to more paceful pastures. Not because of the challenge but because of the social swamp.

Take the wipe phase as a way to look in retrospect on how to evolve and not how to encroach the crap talk which shuns away so many people that literally - can't stand with juvenile inflated egos.

On the other hand there's the time spent. A player in PvE server might log in, do a couple fights, haul a big of cargo, all in 1 hour, and log off to do tend the family.

In the end no one has to prove anything. A big chunk of the NA community loves the game for what it is - grand game in the age of sail  

Friendly competition ?! Absolutely.

This post was posted right after one of your "AFK" rants, coming from a moderator, it was more diplomatic and tactful than my replies, but yet you persevere in your alienation of part of this community.

I am going to invoke Plato's quote again:

Quote

Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.

Learn something, it's never too late!

 

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by AngryPanCake

[Sir Texas Sir]

15 minutes ago, AngryPanCake said:

I mean, seriously! It is clear that someone has some unresolved beef against PvE and/or PvE'ers! or is it maybe just PvE'ers? After baseless blame that not shutting down the PvE server is going to slow down the progress of the game development, he never stops...now this:

Not only this individual, who of course is entitled to share his opinion, continues to insult players that have in no way done anything to him, but has also been so frigging negative about the development of this game, and "no patch anytime soon" and whatever else can come out of his brain. What I am most impressed (or should I say saddened) with is how someone can be so prolific with over 2,300 piles of horse manure! and still going strong and find more reasons to be negative about.

Please provide a link to this particular post, support your claims with facts and stop spewing unfounded allegations. And even if this was an "actual" statement from a poster, does he/she speak for all the rest of the PvE community? You chose that particular statement and you pegged all of us with it. And yes, being a PvE player, I feel insulted by your persistent immature contempt towards players, whose only fault is to not play the way you do.

I am going to invoke Plato's quote again:

Learn something, it's never too late!

Wow personnel attacks on some one, real mature.  None of my post was attacking any one player.  Just a concept I don't agree with and like you said that is my opinion and I'm allowed to make them.   

Even the Devs said it won't be any patch soon so how is that far fetched that I'm stating it's something they aren't going to be working on any time soon?   Maybe in the near or far future they might work on it, but it is listed on there plans for this year, so that means it's prob going to come, just not any time soon.  

 

And no I'm not going to pull and tag every dang Steam post and Every post on this forum where folks have stated  this stuff.  Cause I"m active on the forums and have been for some time I prob seen a lot more than you have.  You know since you just got vocal recently and started posting yourself.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Sir Texas Sir

[AngryPanCake]

 

On 3/28/2017 at 7:19 PM, Sir Texas Sir said:

But that isn't what they want, they will bitch and complain most likely if they got attacked by any one including AI.  Though dev did speak of aggressive Privateers NPC attacking folks in OW so that might be a thing we see some time in the future.   Don't think it's going to be any patch soon though.

First of all, I have nothing against the personnel, whoever you are referring to! And playing the victim is not suitable at all.

"None of my post was attacking any one player.", you are right, you have attacked all of the players with your "they".

"Go do your own search.", I do my own research I am sure you have noticed that I provide supporting facts to my claims.

"Notice I said some, never claimed it was all posters views.", where is some in your above statements? all I see is they!

"And no I'm not going to pull and tag every dang Steam post and Every post on this forum where folks have stated  this stuff.", yes it is easier to put out baseless claims.

"Cause I"m active on the forums and have been for some time I prob seen a lot more than you have.", I have been here more recently, you are right, but that was enough to see how much animosity there is between the 2 communities and you are doing nothing to mend it, but rather, you are perpetuating the divide.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by AngryPanCake

[EdWatchmaker]

Thanks to all above, great read.

Given: On this server the realms are static we spawn in the capital of the nation of our choice and then have to deal with it and the game mechanic makes it impossible to change unless you want to start all over again.

Given: (Hahaha, can't believe I'm going to say this) We, on this server want more excitement and risk. But without the risk. We, especially noobs, might find that we would like to "live" elsewhere on the map.

Allow a player to move their "Home Port" to where ever they want. Example: If I wanted to "live" in the Bahamas I would pick a town, make an OP, check a box and make it my "Home Port". This would make it "Capital" for me. I would pay a tax, to who ever controls the Realm of this town be it AI or clan. I would suggest the tax be mats instead of money so you have to work at it, if you want free, you stay at your spawning place.

This is PvE server. Split the map up into smaller realms and have AI RvR so that the map is changing and in constant flux. Allow a clan to take control of a realm after winning a PB against the AI. They would have to fight from time to time to keep it. If the clan wants to play this game, can't just sit on it like a chicken on an egg. 

If you want "Roam Free", as it is now, stay in your spawn port and you can get the free visa and go about your business. Otherwise, you get a visa from the various Realms. With a visa you can't be attacked. Without a visa you take your chances. A lonewolf civilian, like myself, could buy a letter of marque for that Realm and poach "enemy's" of the Realm.

I am no coder and I know this would need a lot of fleshing out.     

[Powderhorn]

It would be best if people kept this on topic, and without needing to try to take a defensive or aggressive tone with one another.  The PvE server is slated to stay open for a fair bit longer, as posted by admin, and they are exploring content to add to PvE to make it more enjoyable.

With that in mind, I would encourage you all to direct your energy into what content will make for a better game (PvE or ideally both PvE and PvP) rather than squabbling.

Thank you.

[LeBoiteux]

10 hours ago, Powderhorn said:

I would encourage you all to direct your energy into what content will make for a better game (PvE or ideally both PvE and PvP) rather than squabbling.

Interesting PvE content :

1) Much needed

- AI agressiveness

- incentives to sail long distance voyages, to explore the map : more quests, discoveries of "collectible items"...

- smarter AI (expected after release) : bots able to chase, demast, adopt a group strategy, focus fire...

2) Additional :

- AI pirate raids focused on a map area

- an additional unknown map (or the Coast of the Pacific) with secret imaginary islands to explore and settlements/ports Explorers can build on 

- making PvE "player versus Environnement", meaning making the Environnement hostile like in Sid Meier' Pirates : destructive sandbanks and storms, mutiny...

3) Dream :

- a complete Exploration Gameplay mixed with Economy and Conquest mechanics as proposed here : 

4) Maybe :

- Conquest mechanics

Edited April 1, 2017 by LeBoiteux

[monk33y]

In the pve zone, pirates should be the only nation (not a nation I know)  that can attack traders.

The br must be lower from the pirate, meaning it's a harder fight (smaller ship, say snow attacking a lvg) 

Make pirates unique again

[LeBoiteux]

There won't be any PvE zone 

 

[Remus]

28 minutes ago, monk33y said:

In the pve zone, pirates should be the only nation (not a nation I know)  that can attack traders.

The br must be lower from the pirate, meaning it's a harder fight (smaller ship, say snow attacking a lvg) 

Make pirates unique again

I have no problem with making pirates unique (and it seems you will be able to attack your own kind - which no nation can - though how this plays out in PvE I don't know), but don't restrict attacking traders to pirates. Enemy traders were as fair game as enemy warships.

Of course, all nations are enemies to pirates (and vice versa) whereas nat should only be able to attack nat if they are actually at war, the mechanics of which are far from clear to me in this new No Alliances world - will everyone be at war with everyone else? - and quite what 'at war' means in PvE is also a little unclear. I cannot see any way to incorporate RvR without PvP, so it seems to me that it might merely be an indicator of whose ships you can attack (at war) and whose ports you can use (not at war). Gosh - no one will want to be at war with Spain then, and lose all those lovely port resources.

I must get out on the PvE server a bit more and see how it actually pans out, but I think because NPCs currently sell craftable resources and materials there isn't a real problem - just go in with a smuggler flag and buy what you want - but on Testbed right now there are precious few craftable items to be found in shops. In fact I would hazard that only charcoal and gunpowder are actually seeded and the few other items I see were originally captured from traders and dumped in the nearest shop, where they remain until someone comes along to buy them.