Port Battle Conduct!

[JollyRoger1516]

This is a very simple personal statement and all those who agree to it may freely follow in my footsteps!

 

At this point I sadly have to say I do no longer care about the comments of the Admin/mods on the matter. I personally consider the port battle insta join an exploit and its use an abuse of a flawed system. Anybody who insists on using it is in my eyes not somebody who has the interest of improving the game in his mind. In addition there ahve been several other issues coming up over the last days since the patch which had given us a new system to not completely rip apart yet people jsut seem to have no other way of winning anymore. To clarify - I am fully aware that at this point British and other nations captains too have started to log out in front of captured ports and I disagree with it jsut as much as with the Danes doing it!!!

Therefore I will from this moment onwards completely abstain from any port battles (and other events should it become too much there as well) including the screening (which in a defense would be a waste of time anyway) wether it be a defense or attack when through either side any of the following issues comes up:

 

- Hostility bomb (PvE, War supplies, whatever else players find) created in under 4 hours (I consider it impossible for a nation to counter this especially should they currently engage in a port battle)

- Attack fleet logs in in front of the port to circumvent the screening fleet by mechanic and not by skill! (this does not apply to sail time - log out a 5mins sail away from the port and I ahve absolutely no rpoblem with it!!!)

- DDoSed TeamSpeaks (this is actually going into ranges outside of the game itself which I consider a personal attack and should my own TS ever be attacked as such I would report it to the police!)

- Insults in game (I have seen this coming up in ever more increasing ways - A simple 'good fight' whether you win or lose should be customary at the end of a battle - suck up your salt and acknowledge the skill of your enemy!)

 

I expect more exploits to come up in regular use in the near future and they will be added to my list.

Again this list applies to both sides of the conflict - I will not join my own fleets or even leave an active port battle should these issues come up in my own fleet! (My apologies to those who haven't commited an offense and that I will leave behind by such an action - I am afraid doing this has become the lesser evil...)

Last week I said in response to the Bermuda actions that I would now be willing to go with any 'legal' exploits and use them to the fullest extend myself but I am afraid I am just not that kinda guy hence this post. Consider my statement retracted and this one being in effect.

 

Any captain who agrees with this may follow in my footsteps or not obviously being entirely up to you yourself. I believe that at this point only through creating empty port battles we will actually get a change going as it will quickly get boring and rid us of exploiters or at least force the devs to get us back by making useful changes. Should this still fail I am afraid my next step will probably be to finally leave the game that I once enjoyed so much behind me.

 

Cheers

 

Jolly

Edited November 5, 2016 by JollyRoger1516

[Powderhorn]

I understand your frustration.  I hope you do not tune me out simply for being flagged as a moderator.  Please, keep in mind, that without explicit rules against something, it is allowed.  We don't operate on Common Law, as many players are used to, rather, Roman Law, which many may have frustrations with.  This is merely a cultural difference - one is not better than the other.

 

That said, the logging out by port battles is definitely an issue.  We're trying to think of ways to resolve it without breaking other things.  I assure you, it's something we're discussing.  Frustration with something you are passionate about is normal, but, please do not let that manifest itself as negativity.  Rather, please channel that into ways it can be better.

 

Issues of DDoSing are ones we care very much about - but, without proof, we have nothing to really go on.  We obviously can't just ban people willy-nilly on circumstantial evidence.  I'm sure you could think of all the ways a devious mind could exploit that if we did!

 

As far as insults in game goes, please, right click the person's name when they do so, and click "report."  Those reports are gone through weekly.  They often result in chat bans of varying lengths.  For "questionable" ones, we discuss them as a group to try to be as fair as possible.

 

I hope that I have addressed your concerns as best as I am able to.  If not, please, let me know.

[Angus McGregor]

[snip]

In addition there have been several other issues coming up over the last days since the patch which had given us a new system to not completely rip apart yet people just seem to have no other way of winning anymore. To clarify - I am fully aware that at this point British and other nations captains too have started to log out in front of captured ports and I disagree with it just as much as with the Danes doing it!!!

 

My opinion mirrors yours, it is not honorable to use a game flaw to win. I applaud your resolve.

 

- Insults in game (I have seen this coming up in ever more increasing ways

 

For the first time yesterday, I encountered language in nation chat that was more than insulting. It was blatantly vulgar and racist. The strange thing was that it didn't come from one player, but suddenly three I'd never heard of before. Yes, I clicked 'Ignore' then 'Report' and I know others did too.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Angus McGregor

[Wesreidau]

The only way to make it absolutely clear PB logging is a broken game mechanic that must be fixed...

 

Is to abuse the hell out of it.

 

So long as its only Team X doing it, there's talk that Team Y is just a bunch of crybabies, or the problem gets pushed under the rug because it doesn't seem too bad. Don't let that happen. Break PvP play for the entire server for a month if that's what it takes to get rid of this exploit.

[Powderhorn]

That is really absolutely not the way to go about things.  It will be resolved in time, but you "breaking" things doesn't make solutions come up any more readily.  All it does is increase the toxicity in the game.

[Johny Reb]

The evidence for the Savannah PB is that the Brit TS suffered multiple and continuous DDOS attacks. Luckily for us, and between the three nations involved on our side, we had multiple TS servers to choose from and the DDOS attack did not effect the outcome of the battle in the least. I hope though, that this behavior was not sanctioned by the Danish leadership and I assume it was not. Otherwise my first impression of them would be very low. I can't believe that a caller of a fight would feel proud of a win that was only earned through cheating so I don't think the Danish commander  (BeBe is it?) was behind it.

 

I hope all nations and factions would make it clear to their members that this kind of behavior is not appreciated.

[JollyRoger1516]

The evidence for the Savannah PB is that the Brit TS suffered multiple and continuous DDOS attacks. Luckily for us, and between the three nations involved on our side, we had multiple TS servers to choose from and the DDOS attack did not effect the outcome of the battle in the least. I hope though, that this behavior was not sanctioned by the Danish leadership and I assume it was not. Otherwise my first impression of them would be very low. I can't believe that a caller of a fight would feel proud of a win that was only earned through cheating so I don't think the Danish commander  (BeBe is it?) was behind it.

 

I hope all nations and factions would make it clear to their members that this kind of behavior is not appreciated.

The British Nation TS was down the entire day due to 'outside' reasons - not a DDoS - however the US one went down for the port battle duration +10misn on either side which can only be called highly suspicious...

[JollyRoger1516]

I understand your frustration.  I hope you do not tune me out simply for being flagged as a moderator.  Please, keep in mind, that without explicit rules against something, it is allowed.  We don't operate on Common Law, as many players are used to, rather, Roman Law, which many may have frustrations with.  This is merely a cultural difference - one is not better than the other.

Yes I understand that the devs said it was allowed until a fix is implemented but the thing is simply until said fix arrives pretty much everything goes and certain players seem to not take a step back at all anymore. While sanctioned by the Admin it nonetheless kills the fun for me personally hence why I step back from it.

You being a moderator will not stop me from having a well worded discussion with you. It merely was directed at the fact that until the patch is here the action was pretty much given a green light.

 

That said, the logging out by port battles is definitely an issue.  We're trying to think of ways to resolve it without breaking other things.  I assure you, it's something we're discussing.  Frustration with something you are passionate about is normal, but, please do not let that manifest itself as negativity.  Rather, please channel that into ways it can be better.

Sadly the talk of we're aware of the issue fixes absolutely nothing about the presence where time, ports, respect for the enemy and fun is lost. I understand the fact that you may not want to rush out a patch but the action was given a green light hence is the new go to tactic for all nations sadly which really jsut creates a map situation where every lost/nearly lsot port creates bad impressions on at least those who had to fend it off.

 

Issues of DDoSing are ones we care very much about - but, without proof, we have nothing to really go on.  We obviously can't just ban people willy-nilly on circumstantial evidence.  I'm sure you could think of all the ways a devious mind could exploit that if we did!

I actually considered this a real life issue where you might actually not have any power of acting upon it yourself. Like I said this I consider a personal attack due to the real life background and money being involved setting these servers up etc. The action here possible as I saw it was either go to the police about it or simply and this really should not have to come up not have attacks on servers in the first place. A similar issue has occured before ingame when a certain squadron got trapped inside a port battle and suddenly the game servers would crash - 3x with me being aprt of said battle and always the same clan! In the end these are just pixels and though we love them we realy shouldn't resort to genuine criminal activity to maintain them.

 

As far as insults in game goes, please, right click the person's name when they do so, and click "report."  Those reports are gone through weekly.  They often result in chat bans of varying lengths.  For "questionable" ones, we discuss them as a group to try to be as fair as possible.

That tends to be done if there is enough time but in the heat of battle this is often overlooked. However this really should not come up in the first place and as Angus said the chats in general have become increasingly toxic the prior lack of it an issue that I (coming from War Thunder) actually considered a good feature of our community. This seems to slip in ever increasing ways lately.

 

I hope that I have addressed your concerns as best as I am able to.  If not, please, let me know.

You ahve adressed them but you haven't fixed them - However apart from the port battle entry and the hostility bomb (an attempt at a fix has already been made) I don't actually think that the devs need to be the ones doing something about this - this is about the players conduct. Insults and DDoS attacks are doen entirely by them and using exploits should be something we voluntarily step away from instead of delving into it as much and long as we can. I can't consider those that don't do that as genuine testers anymore as they seem to be here about winning without using brains and skill and partially you can even see them defending the exploit wanting it permanantly implemented...

Edited November 5, 2016 by JollyRoger1516

[JollyRoger1516]

The only way to make it absolutely clear PB logging is a broken game mechanic that must be fixed...

 

Is to abuse the hell out of it.

 

So long as its only Team X doing it, there's talk that Team Y is just a bunch of crybabies, or the problem gets pushed under the rug because it doesn't seem too bad. Don't let that happen. Break PvP play for the entire server for a month if that's what it takes to get rid of this exploit.

I disagree - while I see your approach I think it goes against any good conduct that at least I have subscribed to.

[Thonys]

This is a very simple personal statement and all those who agree to it may freely follow in my footsteps!

 

At this point I sadly have to say I do no longer care about the comments of the Admin/mods on the matter. I personally consider the port battle insta join an exploit and its use an abuse of a flawed system. Anybody who insists on using it is in my eyes not somebody who has the interest of improving the game in his mind. In addition there ahve been several other issues coming up over the last days since the patch which had given us a new system to not completely rip apart yet people jsut seem to have no other way of winning anymore. To clarify - I am fully aware that at this point British and other nations captains too have started to log out in front of captured ports and I disagree with it jsut as much as with the Danes doing it!!!

Therefore I will from this moment onwards completely abstain from any port battles (and other events should it become too much there as well) including the screening (which in a defense would be a waste of time anyway) wether it be a defense or attack when through either side any of the following issues comes up:

 

- Hostility bomb (PvE, War supplies, whatever else players find) created in under 4 hours (I consider it impossible for a nation to counter this especially should they currently engage in a port battle)

- Attack fleet logs in in front of the port to circumvent the screening fleet by mechanic and not by skill! (this does not apply to sail time - log out a 5mins sail away from the port and I ahve absolutely no rpoblem with it!!!)

- DDoSed TeamSpeaks (this is actually going into ranges outside of the game itself which I consider a personal attack and should my own TS ever be attacked as such I would report it to the police!)

- Insults in game (I have seen this coming up in ever more increasing ways - A simple 'good fight' whether you win or lose should be customary at the end of a battle - suck up your salt and acknowledge the skill of your enemy!)

 

I expect more exploits to come up in regular use in the near future and they will be added to my list.

Again this list applies to both sides of the conflict - I will not join my own fleets or even leave an active port battle should these issues come up in my own fleet! (My apologies to those who haven't commited an offense and that I will leave behind by such an action - I am afraid doing this has become the lesser evil...)

Last week I said in response to the Bermuda actions that I would now be willing to go with any 'legal' exploits and use them to the fullest extend myself but I am afraid I am just not that kinda guy hence this post. Consider my statement retracted and this one being in effect.

 

Any captain who agrees with this may follow in my footsteps or not obviously being entirely up to you yourself. I believe that at this point only through creating empty port battles we will actually get a change going as it will quickly get boring and rid us of exploiters or at least force the devs to get us back by making useful changes. Should this still fail I am afraid my next step will probably be to finally leave the game that I once enjoyed so much behind me.

 

Cheers

 

Jolly

 

well you are wright..

i totally agree with  you ......

i see it a s a deliberate use of an known exploit

 

it is even a  insult to all the sailors in front of the harbor who wants to protect it 

but i even see it as a case for the tribunal its a war crime  (PB on 4-11-16 danes vs US )

 

 

 

and i demand a 2 weeks ban for all the participants on the danish side who used this tactic

even without a fair trial.......

[JollyRoger1516]

it is even a  insult to all the sailors in front of the harbor who wants to protect it 

but i even see it as a case for the tribunal its a war crime  (PB on 4-11-16 danes vs US )

 

 

 

and i demand a 2 weeks ban for all the participants on the danish side who used this tactic

even without a fair trial.......

It is currently sanctioned hence not a tribunal case - that doesn't make it honourable or even enjoyable though.

[D4mi4nNL]

well you are wright..

i totally agree with  you ......

i see it a s a deliberate use of an known exploit

 

it is even a  insult to all the sailors in front of the harbor who wants to protect it 

but i even see it as a case for the tribunal its a war crime  (PB on 4-11-16 danes vs US )

 

 

 

and i demand a 2 weeks ban for all the participants on the danish side who used this tactic

even without a fair trial.......

i agree with you ban them for using this exploit

and that ddos on 4-11-2016 by brits and us is suspicious we must go to the police with this

Edited November 5, 2016 by D4mi4n

[Guest]

Would have to agree. For Bermuda it was understandable given how ridiculously far away it is, but now it's becoming common practice instead even when not necessary. Preferring PBs is not a valid excuse to circumvent aspects of the game that other alliances/nations have an advantage at - don't hate a player, hate the game.

 

Keep in mind though, instead of treating Bermuda as a separate case several people announced that they were going to start doing the same all the time as well, and attitude that invites its prolific use and a 'shoot first' scenario like this.

 

Perfectly okay with the hostility bomb given that it still took considerable effort and is being curbed immediately, it pointed out a flaw in the structure quite well, the DDoSing is really troubling though, it's the kind of meta crap that you'd sooner expect the pirates to lower themselves to doing.

[admin]

all captains should calm down and stop blaming and shaming. 

Until solutions are found nothing will change - because currently the only way to stop logging off at sea is to remove it completely that will affect the majority of players.

 

Please proceed to this topic started by esteemed captain Jeheil to propose and discuss the solutions

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/16997-please-stop-pb-log-camping-before-it-starts

[JollyRoger1516]

 

all captains should calm down and stop blaming and shaming. 

Until solutions are found nothing will change - because currently the only way to stop logging off at sea is to remove it completely that will affect the majority of players.

 

Please proceed to this topic started by esteemed captain Jeheil to propose and discuss the solutions

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/16997-please-stop-pb-log-camping-before-it-starts

 

This is NOT a discussion threat!!! - While some people have used it as such it is merely a request to people to voluntarily stay within certain limits in their interactions and a statement for myself and those that should happen to follow this that we will no longer stand for such behaviour.

 

In this decision I am compeltely calm and if naming and shaming including captains of all nations! Until changes happen however you will find people leaving or at least refraining from playing (certain aspects of) the game. One of the main issues I actually see in your statement is that you still completely misunderstand the problem we have with the port battle log out!

[Guest]

Retracting my statement regarding Georgia logout given the following info.

 

 

Here are my arguments about the fact that our victory was legal and fair:

1) Danes did NOT use any logout cause they were intercepted by the first part of enemy screening fleet next to the town and after destroying it without losses were remaining in battlescreen waiting for the siege and for coming of the allies. So your screening was just AWFUL cause your first part of screeners just died without killing anyone!

2) When Danes were waiting in battle screen our allied French-Spanish fleet (I was also there) attacked the second part of enemy screening fleet and destroyed most of the ships in a fair combat. So when the Danes escaped their battle with screeners and entered the port battle there were quite a few enemy ships near town that even could not attack them cause of BR difference.

3) After destroying the second part of enemy screening fleet we started a new battle with the remaining screeners and just arrived enemy ships and also won it, even they were next to their forts!

4) The port battle and all the outside battles were won by our alliance. In outside combats we destroyed nearly 8 1st rates (4 of them were captured) and lots of frigates and lost no 1st rates!

Conclusion: It was a brilliant and honest victory for our alliance! And a great defeat for enemy alliance cause the loss of the strategic region! But it's not a reason for whining and accusing in cheating!

 

[Knobby]

The only way to make it absolutely clear PB logging is a broken game mechanic that must be fixed...

 

Is to abuse the hell out of it.

 

So long as its only Team X doing it, there's talk that Team Y is just a bunch of crybabies, or the problem gets pushed under the rug because it doesn't seem too bad. Don't let that happen. Break PvP play for the entire server for a month if that's what it takes to get rid of this exploit.

Because that worked so good to force changes to be made to the pirate 'nation'?

[Wesreidau]

You have a better way to prove something's broken than by jumping on it until it breaks?

[Wesreidau]

That is really absolutely not the way to go about things.  It will be resolved in time, but you "breaking" things doesn't make solutions come up any more readily.  All it does is increase the toxicity in the game.

 

Its the only way to go about things, unless we hear from the staff that port battle log-in camping is recognized as an exploit and will be solved in an upcoming patch.

 

Until then, we can't tell if you see the problem or not.

[Anolytic]

The British say that the fights outside are all that's fun. Don't let it be said that the Dane-Swede-Spain-France alliance does not provide:
http://bildr.no/image/R1lEcXJ2.jpeg
We had a huge force at Savannah ready to bring a good fight.

But judging from this picture it's not really what they want, is it? What's up with the many grey Victorys we captured? It is clear that there is no intention for the screening fleet to win battles, but to spam gamey fireships or keep enemies tagged even with no possibility to defeat them, just so that entering the port battle is impossible or delayed beyond winning opportunity. 
 
The attacking forces at Savannah won crushing victories both inside and outside the port battle. And there was no actual logging off in front of the port there. The Danish forces sailed up shortly before the battle. They engaged and defeated the unprepared screeners, let the battle instance run for a while, and then entered the port battle. Nobody logged out in front of port. 
 
Regarding Teamspeak. Nobody involved with the attacking forces or anyone from Danmark-Norge had any interest in sabotaging communications for the defenders. We are confident enough in our own organisation that we do not need to sabotage yours. In case you ever have trouble with your Teamspeak server again I will happily set up a channel or two on the Danish National Teamspeak for British/Dutch/US forces to have as backup. 
 
 

To clarify - I am fully aware that at this point British and other nations captains too have started to log out in front of captured ports and I disagree with it jsut as much as with the Danes doing it!!!

At the moment, with the current mechanics it is completely necessary unless screeners are completely inept. I am not bringing up Salamanca to say "hey, brits are doing it too!". Of course they did. And they were absolutely right to do so. There would have been no way whatsoever for brits to enter Salamanca port battle without it. Not because Spain had so many screeners, although they did, but because the port battle does not wait for the attacker like it did when we had flags. When we had flags the attacker could choose when to attack based on the wind. Now, unless you calculate the wind 46 hours before and also have full control of when the port battle should start, which only a hostility bomb can achieve, there is no way of controlling your attack anymore. 
Back before reset, Danish forces were screened a couple of times trying to get to Maracaibo. Finally we managed to organise an attack at a time where we would have good wind through the strait. With the new system, not only does the enormous tag circles ensure that counter-screeners are totally ineffectual, in addition the game forces you to attack at an exact time that you didn't really choose yourself except the general time of day. If the wind is blowing against you sailing into the narrow channel towards Sinamaica, then good luck trying to get there.

[JollyRoger1516]

The British say that the fights outside are all that's fun. Don't let it be said that the Dane-Swede-Spain-France alliance does not provide:

http://bildr.no/image/R1lEcXJ2.jpeg

We had a huge force at Savannah ready to bring a good fight.

But judging from this picture it's not really what they want, is it? What's up with the many grey Victorys we captured? It is clear that there is no intention for the screening fleet to win battles, but to spam gamey fireships or keep enemies tagged even with no possibility to defeat them, just so that entering the port battle is impossible or delayed beyond winning opportunity. 

 

The attacking forces at Savannah won crushing victories both inside and outside the port battle. And there was no actual logging off in front of the port there. The Danish forces sailed up shortly before the battle. They engaged and defeated the unprepared screeners, let the battle instance run for a while, and then entered the port battle. Nobody logged out in front of port. 

 

Regarding Teamspeak. Nobody involved with the attacking forces or anyone from Danmark-Norge had any interest in sabotaging communications for the defenders. We are confident enough in our own organisation that we do not need to sabotage yours. In case you ever have trouble with your Teamspeak server again I will happily set up a channel or two on the Danish National Teamspeak for British/Dutch/US forces to have as backup. 

 

 

At the moment, with the current mechanics it is completely necessary unless screeners are completely inept. I am not bringing up Salamanca to say "hey, brits are doing it too!". Of course they did. And they were absolutely right to do so. There would have been no way whatsoever for brits to enter Salamanca port battle without it. Not because Spain had so many screeners, although they did, but because the port battle does not wait for the attacker like it did when we had flags. When we had flags the attacker could choose when to attack based on the wind. Now, unless you calculate the wind 46 hours before and also have full control of when the port battle should start, which only a hostility bomb can achieve, there is no way of controlling your attack anymore. 

Back before reset, Danish forces were screened a couple of times trying to get to Maracaibo. Finally we managed to organise an attack at a time where we would have good wind through the strait. With the new system, not only does the enormous tag circles ensure that counter-screeners are totally ineffectual, in addition the game forces you to attack at an exact time that you didn't really choose yourself except the general time of day. If the wind is blowing against you sailing into the narrow channel towards Sinamaica, then good luck trying to get there.

You're quoting and showing things that I had absolutely nothing to do with - and I will not in the future. This is not a thread for yet another toxic (and it always turns there at some point) exchange about mechanics and whether they are good or bad and who wants what with what result. I consider tehse things a problem and so do many others - should it not be fixed I and those people will abstain from the port battles leaving the port battles an empty mess. If you enjoy that well have the map then - I probably wont be playing with constant evasion of your forces but I won't engage in this way. I believe that once you ahve the map via this method the palyerbase will be gone. If you consider this a good thing by all means go ahead - but I won't follow.

Edited November 7, 2016 by JollyRoger1516

[The Spud]

Pre patch, losing a port because of some flag exploits caused some words here on the forum, but at the end of the day you could just cap it back two days later.

 

But now, with the importance of regions, the effort it takes to get a PB going, the fact it flips +-4 ports at a time, the time it takes to get a new one going after a failed attack/defend, its just important to have these PB exploit and bug free.