Crafting Has Become Hell

[Lord Heyford]

I've been playing since Dec. 17, according to Steam, I've logged over 2250 hours in the game. I've maxed out on rank and crafting, I have almost every BP that is droppable, and through trading have a bankroll of over 125m. For the most part, my experience through the patches have been good, however...

 

You have officially screwed crafters.

 

The distribution, availability, and rate of generation of special "fine" woods is so low I've been unable to craft since the patch.

 

You have rebalanced things to the point of there being no balance. Are you planning to fix it?

[Hagen v Martius]

The availability of newly crafted exceptional ships on offer in the various ports and the the ships that our clan crafter has been making for us (without any outside help) tell me that there is something you are doing wrong, sorry to say.

[maturin]

The devs want you to bite the bullet and craft basic ships more often.*

 

That said, the fine wood requirements are being softened.

 

 

 

*For e-peen reduction purposes, they should probably replace the stigmatizes grey UI label with white or something.

[Chimera]

The availability of newly crafted exceptional ships on offer in the various ports and the the ships that our clan crafter has been making for us (without any outside help) tell me that there is something you are doing wrong, sorry to say.

the drop rate of fine woods is rng. some are having better luck with it then others. today i harvested 800 bermuda cedar and got 34 compass wood.

i have had around 2,5 fine cedar logs for every 100 regular cedar woods. you can do the math on how long it takes to produce the wood for a ship yourself.

[Rikard Frederiksen]

*For e-peen reduction purposes, they should probably replace the stigmatizes grey UI label with white or something.

Or just rip out the different colours and have a unified number of slots, allowing the wood type, trim, and regional bonus to dictate the ship's quality. But that's another matter.

 

Crafting is harder, not 'hell', but certainly harder. I can understand the RNG concerns, but the development team are well aware of it. Best thing would be to head over to the relevant thread (which I've linked) and leave your feedback there if you have not done so already. We just all need to get used to not always crafting exceptional ships, or when we do that gathering the materials will be trickier.

[Billy Budd]

I agree, crafting top quality ships has been made more difficult since the introduction of fine woods, which are pretty scarce. You have to travel more to obtain them now. Not that travelling long distances bothers me, as I do a lot of trading and the new delivery missions has improved the trading aspect of the game, much better than before the patch. I have decided to give crafting a break for the time being. I have a good fleet of quality ships to my credit and a good bank balance, so I am just concentrating on upping my rank which at the moment is just over half way to becoming a Flag Captain. Its a long haul between ranks and the higher you need to go, the amount of XP needed, seems to double up.

 

I play on the PVE server, as I prefer to do my own thing away from people who just want to challenge you all the time. There is more to this game than just fighting battles and I am enjoying it, playing the way I do. 

[Hethwill]

Not every ship must be built of Fine woods. I might be saying something horribly out of place since I do not craft ships, bu shouldn't the best resources be used to build Conquest fleets while the rest of the normal OW squadrons be fitted with normal everyday resources ?

[Edward Canaday]

Not every ship must be built of Fine woods. I might be saying something horribly out of place since I do not craft ships, bu shouldn't the best resources be used to build Conquest fleets while the rest of the normal OW squadrons be fitted with normal everyday resources ?

 

I agree with this, save the exceptional ratings for either fleet level ships (SOLs and Frigate tenders), or that one ship that you sail above all others, love it and won't hesitate to put forth the effort (or cost) of making one exceptional.  That being said, I'm working to get my blueprints (they don't transfer with you when you migrate servers), guess what level ship you need to build in order to get blueprints to drop.  That's my biggest frustration right now.  I'm building ships no one wants and therefore can't sell them.  Wasting valuable resources in order to get BPs for the ships I actually want.

[Llewellyn Jones RN]

Trouble is that no one wants low quality ships every one wants the best they can get which means they will have to work harder for it the devs said they wanted to limit the number of 1st rates and this is how they intend to do it so suck it up and wait or work harder for it there is plenty available if you have deep pockets.

[Hethwill]

Trouble is that no one wants low quality ships every one wants the best they can get which means they will have to work harder for it the devs said they wanted to limit the number of 1st rates and this is how they intend to do it so suck it up and wait or work harder for it there is plenty available if you have deep pockets.

 

That is correct, but it is a player side choice not a mechanics fault imo.

 

I see crafters asking ridiculous greedy prices for common wood ships as I also see crafters lending their services to folks that want to assemble a ship providing materials. Same as before, nothing changed.

[admin]

I agree with this, save the exceptional ratings for either fleet level ships (SOLs and Frigate tenders), or that one ship that you sail above all others, love it and won't hesitate to put forth the effort (or cost) of making one exceptional.  That being said, I'm working to get my blueprints (they don't transfer with you when you migrate servers), guess what level ship you need to build in order to get blueprints to drop.  That's my biggest frustration right now.  I'm building ships no one wants and therefore can't sell them.  Wasting valuable resources in order to get BPs for the ships I actually want.

 

good point

remember that blueprints system will change on release. right now it requires you to craft an exceptional ship to receive a guaranteed chance of a BP drop. Which is now hard due to fine wood requirements. I need to think about it

[jodgi]

...I've been unable to craft since the patch...

It's a choice. I have made the same choice. We're unable crank out golden ships like we used to, but that's working as intended.

 

 

The devs want you to bite the bullet and craft basic ships more often.*

This is where it gets interesting...

 

 

Not every ship must be built of Fine woods.

The trick is to convince players to be ok with this. The Rakers still want the best ships available, we don't want to fight at a disadvantage. Others are already cranking out the best ships. Who wants to go out and fight wondering if the guy coming at you has the ability to win by equipment default?

 

but it is a player side choice not a mechanics fault imo.

Is the mechanic worth it in the face of dogged (competitive) player mentality?

[Siegfried]

Admin, simply give all qualities the same chance of BP drop, or advance now the new craft system.  And of course, free that "three Blueprints" available for all...

[Hethwill]

I won't disagree with you Jodgi, it is indeed a player mentality. But give the latest prizes there's a few Fine and MC ships being used out there and plenty of pre-patch exceptionals.

 

I guess more pvp attrition ( wishful thinking... gank or be ganked wooohoooo ) is needed to grind out the old exceptionals and stabilize the market.

[Chimera]

That is correct, but it is a player side choice not a mechanics fault imo.

 

I see crafters asking ridiculous greedy prices for common wood ships as I also see crafters lending their services to folks that want to assemble a ship providing materials. Same as before, nothing changed.

I agree that not all ships need to be gold. Current pricing where gold only needs 2x as much fine wood as green does only encourages crafting gold or grey. IMHO initialcost of green needs to come done with cost of fine would going up exponentially for better quality rather then linear as it is.

[Rramsha]

I feel that everyone is seeing crafting in the incorrect light, this is the biggest problem.

People have been extremely spoiled with the earlier versions where High end crafted ships were inexpensive and numerous, it is almost a left over relic from when ships could only be captured.

 

 

 

-What is wrong with sailing lower grade ships?

 

-Shouldn't lower grade ships be more common than the high end exceptional vessels?

 

-Why do shipbuilders refuse to craft lower grade ships?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some solutions to change the perception of ship quality and ships for sale

 

 

 

-Less tiers of ship "quality" (I think there are too many levels of "quality" for ships maybe 2 tiers would be better, Common and Fine. Just incorporate all current stats into two tiers one would be cheaper the other more expensive, the outcomes of crafting may be the same but they would show as two tiers only)

 

-Allow people to see what ships are for sale within all friendly ports in the Trade tool. (This is due to ships no longer being exclusively crafted at capital, let me see where they are located)

 

-Allow people to post Trade Requests, this way traders can then fulfill their Trade requirements, creating a player run mission system for crafting goods. Get those crafters the materials they need.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Rramsha

[HoopDreams]

Crafting really isn't that much harder.  You just need to figure out your trading game to get the few rarer goods, that aren't even that rare anymore.  And crafting should be harder IMO, makes the new ships more valuable.

 

I've cranked out 5 exceptional ships since the patch and about to crank out a 6th today

Edited October 31, 2016 by HoopDreams

[Bach]

Other than crafting Cedar or Mahogany crafting is much the same as it was but you now have to figure a trade route.

Before you just built everything in one spot. Drove a cargo ship once a day to collect materials and sent back to the main port. Built a gold ship and that was that. The problem was the materials were so readily available one player could produce all gold ships, two or three a day, while his clan just fed him the notes. A solo crafter could reasonably produce an exceptional Frigate every other day.

Now you need to figure in additional collection points on a trade route so you can figure in an extra port or two. Then you take the collected parts, sail to the regional bonus you want, then assemble the ship together. If you figure the trade route well it's just one extra step. Now you need your clan to feed you the notes and the fine woods. Which, depending on the size of your clan, will slow exceptional ship production a little. A solo crafter now produces an exceptional frig every 4 days.

If we actually had an economy, where low level crafters put wood and fine wood on the market. Mid level crafters put notes and parts on the market. And high level crafters just bought all that and slapped the ships together we would probably all be building exceptional as much as before. But that's in a real economy. We're all just still stuck in the solo crafter mentality.

So clan crafting didn't change greatly. Solo crafting changed greatly.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Bach

[Neptune]

I must say I think crafting is a bit too hard now to get exceptional quaility. For the PvP servers I would like to see more reward for PvP less for crafting and PVEing. One thing that I will miss is the even play field for people who don't have the time to craft, it takes away from skill. The way it is now is people who have the time to craft exceptional ships will always have the advantage over the casual players. It's kind of sad to see that. I Know we want exceptional ships to be super hard to craft but at the same time it's killing the equal playing field for those who don't have hours and hours to spare for crafting and trading. 

 

Would be nice to see you get rewards from actually going out and PvPing that can go towards getting better quality ships, rather than this boring and very time consuming crafting. 

[jodgi]

This is our life now; Metagaming the rng fine log drop.

[Ixal]

It's a choice. I have made the same choice. We're unable crank out golden ships like we used to, but that's working as intended.

 

Gold ships? I am unable to craft green ships as I had gathered 600 logs without any fine log at all.

 

And sorry, but before I spend a day or more hunting down fine logs all over the map which sell at ridiculous prices with a trade tool that is completely useless to find available goods I rather stop crafting completely and buy grey/green ships from NPCs at prices no crafter can match or just capture them outright.

 

If you want to change that everyone only uses gold ships you would have to remove the color system and instead implement something else which is not so easily visible, for example allowing crafters to assign points into the various attributes during crafting with the number of points depending on crafter level and resources used (both quantity, quality and extra resources).

Edited November 1, 2016 by Ixal

[Hagen v Martius]

I must say I think crafting is a bit too hard now to get exceptional quaility. For the PvP servers I would like to see more reward for PvP less for crafting and PVEing. One thing that I will miss is the even play field for people who don't have the time to craft, it takes away from skill. The way it is now is people who have the time to craft exceptional ships will always have the advantage over the casual players. It's kind of sad to see that. I Know we want exceptional ships to be super hard to craft but at the same time it's killing the equal playing field for those who don't have hours and hours to spare for crafting and trading. 

 

Would be nice to see you get rewards from actually going out and PvPing that can go towards getting better quality ships, rather than this boring and very time consuming crafting. 

People that have a lot of time on their hand and/or are willing to spend their free time predominately in-game will always have an advantage. In every aspect. They will level faster, they will have more money, they will have more of everything and they will know the game better.

That's not really a useful thing to balance the game around. Much less so a MMO.

[jodgi]

That's not really a useful thing to balance the game around. Much less so a MMO.

 

Wait a minute, what are you saying?

 

Powergamers already have enough of an advantage, they shouldn't be the only ones capable of getting the best stuff, right?

Or at least don't make golden ships that much better?

[Hagen v Martius]

I'm saying that balancing things around players that may only have three hours a week to play spread over five days would ruin the game in every single aspect.

Not that it should be Korean-style grindfest, but there has to be a bottom line of necessary time and effort that needs tobe kept, more so with top tier stuff. A bottom line without which NA would turn into Cookie Clicker/Farmville/*insert name of other generic Facebook/Mobile game*.

 

MMO are time intensive games, that's part of the genre and what defines the genre. You're in direct competition with other players who may have more time on their hands and to expect to be able to keep up with them is illusory. Nor does it necessarily make the game bad or forbidding.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Hagen v Martius

[jodgi]

Well, ok...

 

Let me put it this way:

 

I'm fine with there being a terrible time tax to having first rates in various free ports and outposts.

 

But let new guys get into their frigate or trinco bought with what they have after a few weeks of play, and let them be able to beat me with skill. Golden equipment is a little too strong compared to green to allow that now. For example: 3 mod slots for (almost) every ship would bring us pretty close.