X-Files: The Pirate Corruption

[Skully]

The truth is out there.

I would rather be on a real case with Scully, but the question or rather the problem has been posed for further analysis.

Are the Pirates nerfed or buffed?

It is actually intriguing to see how the Pirates got corrupted in the first place.

 

I thought pirate vs pirate xp and gold was removed long ago?

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/8329-pirate-mechanics-vote/?p=227185

So what are you really saying here?

To me it sounds like, if you attack another Pirate you will not be rewarded. This basically means a Pirate has no reason to attack another Pirate.

Going back a bit further in time, it was actually established that any form of Pirate-Pirate battle should result in demotions.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/9916-damage-farming-demotions/

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/12040-abuse-of-pirate-attacking-eachother/

How do you expect (Pirate) players to react to this?

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13075-pirates-attacking-pirates/?p=237688

They band together and form a true Nation.

Is that the goal you wanted to achieve!?

The story is a lie.

We don't want Pirates to be forced into unity. Now do we?

"Very Hard", Pirate versus Pirate battles?

They can not exist! A Pirate battle is always a gank on one defender.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15472-pirate-pirate-free-for-all-battles/

And when you finally do get into a "very hard" fight, what happens?

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15441-friendly-fire-bountyhuntersorry-pvp1/

The "Pirate" will hide behind the tribunal. (Sorry Thomas, but you are today's lamb. )

So what do you do as Pirate, or are allowed to do as Pirate?

Gank.

Pff... another gankers story.

What else do you expect Pirates to do?

(An activity we actually do not want/like to see.)

In truth there is no such thing as damage farming. Because if there is, then we need to take a hard look at all the diplomatic agreements that allowed for port swapping and battles by agreement.

How folks want to level is their business.

Yes, you could level by just sitting broadside, who cares?

You can also get Gold by fishing, who cares?

You follow all sort of agreements and regulate port battles that way, who cares?

How boring or exciting you want to make your gameplay is your own choice.

What we should focus on is how such activities are rewarded to entice a praiseful response.

Add to that a 2000 officer XP reward if he dies. The officer's (full) life is limited anyway, so be generous.

Well, to come to the conclusion, Pirates have been neutered and it is time they got their balls back.

[Snoggy]

I don't think anyone knows what the pirates should be.

 

 

But in a few more ports the map's going to be a giant carebearfest cause none of the nations will attack each other. Last few days the port battles have been uncontested by 'agreement'.

[Jean Pual Vilvenue]

I don't think anyone knows what the pirates should be.

 

 

But in a few more ports the map's going to be a giant carebearfest cause none of the nations will attack each other. Last few days the port battles have been uncontested by 'agreement'.

We can't attack anyone cause we have hardly any players (Spain specifically). Agreement seems to be the only way to win ports back because of the in-balance of players across nations. Maybe if we'd have a better balance of players across each nation it won't be so much of a problem..

You can blame the US for that part, at least on the PvP Two Server as they dominate anything and if you're not part of the major powerhouse nations then RIP.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Juan Bautista de Anza

[Cragger]

I just want pirates to be real outlaws. No perfectly safe havens, no direct threat to soverign powers territory but a real threat to their commerce and anti-piracy forces. I would love to see them have unique light craft and 'sixth' rates and the lower fifth rates.

 

Characters like Pagan Pete are ones that made me smile even when they where being very annoying to others in U.S. nation chat because he played the role so well.

 

But since 'pirates' were treated like any other nation it became a nation with some tools to enforce unity such as being able to attack each other. What was labeled as 'hardcore' was actually the easiest because the Coalition enforced unity (at the time) and you could game the mechanics to teleport your ships anywhere by attacking each other (which everyone can do now, provided smuggle tag is set).

 

Ultimately pirates need a complete rewrite to make them a truly unique and different way to play the game. And it needs to be done without silly perks that give a 1 kt magical speed boost on all ships just because pirate (I'm against all these even the ship type speed boosts.)

[Skully]

Ultimately pirates need a complete rewrite to make them a truly unique and different way to play the game. And it needs to be done without silly perks that give a 1 kt magical speed boost on all ships just because pirate (I'm against all these even the ship type speed boosts.)

Before a complete rewrite (if even needed) can be done, the community first need to get to grips with what Pirates mechanics really entail.

Asking for damage farm fixes and Pirate demotions because they attack one-another leads to more broken mechanics.

Overhaul of War & Peace mechanics and national relations, pirate role and national alliances (801 votes [53.94%])

We can see this in the first Alliances patch. What is the Pirate role?

And personally I don't blame the developers in any way, I put clear blame on the community.

[Cragger]

Before a complete rewrite (if even needed) can be done, the community first need to get to grips with what Pirates mechanics really entail.

Asking for damage farm fixes and Pirate demotions because they attack one-another leads to more broken mechanics.

We can see this in the first Alliances patch. What is the Pirate role?

And personally I don't blame the developers in any way, I put clear blame on the community.

 

The blame lays directly at the feet of the pirate coalition that turned mechanics that the developers thought would cause a pirate faction full of groups fighting among themselves and disorganized into the most unified power at the time due to being able to enforce the will of the coalition in a way that the national powers could not.

 

And seriously trying to defend the pirates that got demoted back then for abusing the ability to attack each other to damage farm.. that's a special kinda lunacy. They weren't attacking each other to attack each other they would allow the attacker to shoot them up to near sinking then leave the battle and repeat.

[Skully]

The blame lays directly at the feet of the pirate coalition that turned mechanics that the developers thought would cause a pirate faction full of groups fighting among themselves and disorganized into the most unified power at the time due to being able to enforce the will of the coalition in a way that the national powers could not.

So you are saying that the Pirate Coalition exposing the flawed mechanics are to blame for those mechanics?

And seriously trying to defend the pirates that got demoted back then for abusing the ability to attack each other to damage farm.. that's a special kinda lunacy. They weren't attacking each other to attack each other they would allow the attacker to shoot them up to near sinking then leave the battle and repeat.

Thank you, you are the perfect illustration of the cause. I need not say more.

[Cragger]

And personally I don't blame the developers in any way, I put clear blame on the community.

 

 

So you are saying that the Pirate Coalition exposing the flawed mechanics are to blame for those mechanics?

 

 

Contradicting yourself a bit there.

[Skully]

Contradicting yourself a bit there.

Please read before you argue, thank you.

[_Masterviolin]

Please read before you argue, thank you.

I think he understood your point mate. 

 

It doesn't really matter "who's fault" it is for the present state of the pirates. I think we can all at least agree that the present pirate system doesn't really work, and that the present system doesn't reflect what a pirate should be.

 

I'm going to assume the purpose of this post was to propose various things about how the pirate nation should become in the future, and hence will make my own proposition.

 

I think that it would be wise to seek the following goals:

-To create a system which enables pirates to PVP with one another. Pirates competing with one another for hunting grounds and bragging rights just screams pirate, and removing their ability to PVP with one another (though it does remove the tedious xp farm exploit) sorta "forces" unity.

-To create a system which shifts pirate gameplay away from port battles and land wars to internal competition between individual players and commerce raiding. The present system merely renders the pirate a nation with some unique perks and a different identity.

 

I propose the following:

-Remove the use of 3rd-1st rates. Ships of the line of this caliber are illogical to a pirate; they are slow, and their only purpose lie in port battles and other major fleet actions. Pirates don't do major fleet actions, and I know of few people who hunt commerce and engage single ship actions with lumbering ships of the line. The 4th rates should be kept however, to prevent pirates from being totally defenseless from SOLs and help balance that disadvantage. Plus, a light 4th rate SOL like the Ingermanland would remind me of a sorta "pirate flagship"

-Allow pirate PVP, for the reasons I stated above.

-Create an Infamy mechanic, a rating which players improve by winning various actions against players at sea. This could help bolster individual competition as various pirates try to keep up on the top of the social order by winning battles and becoming famous. This also dissuades pirates attacking each-other for exploit reasons, as it harms the infamy rating of the defeated player.

-Remove pirate ownership of ports and reset to the original ports from the start of the game. Some people forget that the pirates initially had a string of ports all over the place as sort of "hideouts" which they could use to raid commerce in the area; for example, Pedro Cay to raid British shipping, etc. Make these ports unconquerable as permanent pirate bases. Nations would contest with their pirate threats by devoting their ships to protect shipping (I can imagine constant escort activity near KPR, being so close to Pedro!), adding a new dimension to frigates and under. After all, the backbone of national fleets has long been made up of SOLs; SOLs are the only strategic ships. Adding this mechanic could add more strategic value to nations and clans focusing efforts on building frigates.

-Add special perk to pirates that emphasizes loot gain from captured trade ships. This should help encourage pirates hunting down traders.

[VonVolks]

Yeah my ideal would be that piracy would be VERY hard so few people opted to do it. It should basically appeal to real PVPers not power gamers who want to "win" via port battles etc.

 

Pirates should have smaller and possibly custom ships, and I would think that SOLS wouldn't appeal to them for these reasons:

 

1. Pirate game is hard and risky. SOLs are expensive and devastating crew losses regularly would wreck the pirate

2. Pirates need speed to both catch and flee. SOLS are not fast.

3. Note i'm not saying they CANT have them, just that a pirate player in the circumstances I see pirates in, wouldn't really WANT them apart from for the odd port raid....

 

As pirates wouldn't be "nations" or "nation builders" via capping ports, the raid mechanic etc should allow pirates to dock at pirate ports, and also at recently / regularly raided ports as they are "anarchys" as well as free ports and hidden "pirates" coves - small bits on maps where pirates can dock and repair and sell goods, that are only known to pirate players...and even then, only when discovered.

 

But then if they did a good job of terrorising the seas they would earn a real rep as a hardened sea dog. They can raid commerce, sink ships, raid towns, and generally have a laugh, but not try and "fleet up" to create an unstoppable pirate hoard. In the above circumstances they would just gather up for raids on backwater ports that had little chance of defence etc, and go back to small scale raiding if opposition built up.

 

I'm not saying this is how it should be done, just what I would like Pirates to be.

[Hethwill]

For Pirates to be what they should be Trade should be what trade should be. No cushions for both.

 

I approve of that method.

[Rhodry Heidenrich]

Definitely agree that Pirates in this game need a rework and new identity. Doesn't feel any different than playing as a National.

 

Good ideas in this thread I could get on board with. Especially if the "flavor" of playing as a Pirate revolved around commerce raiding and smuggling.

[Sickerthansars]

Yeah my ideal would be that piracy would be VERY hard so few people opted to do it. It should basically appeal to real PVPers not power gamers who want to "win" via port battles etc.

 

Pirates should have smaller and possibly custom ships, and I would think that SOLS wouldn't appeal to them for these reasons:

 

1. Pirate game is hard and risky. SOLs are expensive and devastating crew losses regularly would wreck the pirate

2. Pirates need speed to both catch and flee. SOLS are not fast.

3. Note i'm not saying they CANT have them, just that a pirate player in the circumstances I see pirates in, wouldn't really WANT them apart from for the odd port raid....

 

As pirates wouldn't be "nations" or "nation builders" via capping ports, the raid mechanic etc should allow pirates to dock at pirate ports, and also at recently / regularly raided ports as they are "anarchys" as well as free ports and hidden "pirates" coves - small bits on maps where pirates can dock and repair and sell goods, that are only known to pirate players...and even then, only when discovered.

 

But then if they did a good job of terrorising the seas they would earn a real rep as a hardened sea dog. They can raid commerce, sink ships, raid towns, and generally have a laugh, but not try and "fleet up" to create an unstoppable pirate hoard. In the above circumstances they would just gather up for raids on backwater ports that had little chance of defence etc, and go back to small scale raiding if opposition built up.

 

I'm not saying this is how it should be done, just what I would like Pirates to be.

 

good ideas overall but You're never going to be able to stop people from fleeting up, or wanting to. In real life yes this didnt occur so much but people are going to want to play with friends etc and if you make pirates forced into solo play, you're going to lose a lot of players in general

[Skully]

good ideas overall but You're never going to be able to stop people from fleeting up, or wanting to. In real life yes this didnt occur so much but people are going to want to play with friends etc and if you make pirates forced into solo play, you're going to lose a lot of players in general

(What happened to your post!? )

Forcing players is losing players.

Give options, but tie it to the right risk/reward profile/loss consequences.

[VonVolks]

I have never said they should be solo. The game is best played in small units in my opinion, and the same goes for piracy. I would see small 1,2 3, or 4 man pirate squads going around, and sometimes grouping up bigger to do port raids. But again, if Pirates wanted to "avoid attention" and keep to raiding, and avoid the "authorities" then sailing around in a massive fleet of large ships wouldn't exactly be the way to do it....

[Hethwill]

I have never said they should be solo. The game is best played in small units in my opinion, and the same goes for piracy. I would see small 1,2 3, or 4 man pirate squads going around, and sometimes grouping up bigger to do port raids. But again, if Pirates wanted to "avoid attention" and keep to raiding, and avoid the "authorities" then sailing around in a massive fleet of large ships wouldn't exactly be the way to do it....

 

Examples from history of... 3 ships fleets under pirate captains, composed of mainly sloops and schooners, jump to mind

[The Spud]

The pirate part of the game should be a different game inside the game. The pirate part of the game could be such a fun part when made a little more realistic. The only downside is that there is no real "end goal" from the pirate side this way. The port capturing give insentive to nations to come online every day, defend and attack ports, etc.

 

We should implement a ulitmate goal for pirates, something to make them come back or put in that extra hour of gameplay, but not make it the same goal as those of nations. I posted before to change the XP ranking to money ranking for pirates. So they would need to transfer gold to their treasury, the more gold they have in their treasury the higher their ranking would get. But they can't transfer the money back. Maybe add a prestige level after full rank, so you can show off your status. Give them some pirate only perks and ships. And I think we'll find a completely new pirate game that feels piraty and is still fun to play.

 

But its a tough nut to crack, pirates should be fun to play, not be nerfed to boredome, but should be made so the focus is on real piraty stuff. I don't think anyone wanting to play as real pirates would be against this, only the people who want to enjoy all the game content (PB, diplomacy etc.) but want to sail the black at the same time. They'll have to compromise and choose one or the other.

[VonVolks]

I like this idea. Pirate XP should be based on "stashed" wealth, i.e not accessible money, but money put towards rep...i.e spent on XP plus kills for a notoriety based index for pirate fame. This could be alongside the normal game XP for ranks / crew....

Edited August 8, 2016 by VonVolks

[Baron Von WeisenCracker]

We can't attack anyone cause we have hardly any players (Spain specifically). Agreement seems to be the only way to win ports back because of the in-balance of players across nations. Maybe if we'd have a better balance of players across each nation it won't be so much of a problem..

You can blame the US for that part, at least on the PvP Two Server as they dominate anything and if you're not part of the major powerhouse nations then RIP.

as much as I would hope to agree with you -- there are more members of Black clan, than in the WHOLE US nation.

 

if there are more than 30 (US) on at one time, I would be freaking amazed! And even if so -- over 20% of them are less than 03 (1st lt) rank.

 

The US is NO powerhouse!

[Skully]

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15826-pirate-v-pirate-ability-being-used-a-by-nat-alts-to-pin-pirate-team-members/

To me a typical example of hiding behind the tribunal. And I completely agree with admin that it's giving the Judge Advocate Generals headaches.

But it pins the real issue down. The question is not what mechanics do we like around Pirates, but what is the spirit of Pirates? What can we expect from our fellow Pirates?

My answer: anything. You live or die by your word and guns, then face the music.

And if this entails the whole server ganging up on you, so be it. At that point you have created the best story there is, as everyone is cursing your name.

Or do you truly unite? Who knows?

It is however a very fine line we walk.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14842-pvp1-june-26th-pirate-scamscum-at-kingston/

So I can only conclude with "Trust No One".

[Bach]

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15826-pirate-v-pirate-ability-being-used-a-by-nat-alts-to-pin-pirate-team-members/

To me a typical example of hiding behind the tribunal. And I completely agree with admin that it's giving the Judge Advocate Generals headaches.

But it pins the real issue down. The question is not what mechanics do we like around Pirates, but what is the spirit of Pirates? What can we expect from our fellow Pirates?

My answer: anything. You live or die by your word and guns, then face the music.

And if this entails the whole server ganging up on you, so be it. At that point you have created the best story there is, as everyone is cursing your name.

Or do you truly unite? Who knows?

It is however a very fine line we walk.http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14842-pvp1-june-26th-pirate-scamscum-at-kingston/

So I can only conclude with "Trust No One".

As good as it sounds you still have to take steps to protect the reputation of the game at some point.

If the game becomes known for scammers it suffers.

If it becomes known for cross teamers it suffers.

Of course, if a game becomes known for heavy handed rules and controls it also suffers.

Somewhere there needs to be balance or at least lines that are not crossed.

Gaming Societies self policing only works when anonymity isn't just a name change or alt account away.

This is why we need moderators.

[Prater]

You do realize why pirate vs pirate gold and xp was removed at some point (has it returned?) right?  Because of damage farming.  And this is one reason why pirates will no longer be able to attack pirates in the future.

[themule08]

Everyone seems to forget this is an alpha.. we are here to help the game mature and grow.. who cares who the power house is and why they are.

We are here to help the game for when it is fully realized and released to the public people will buy and keep playing..

The pirates need to be redefined into a hardcore sect with cool gameplay. They are separate from nationals from building ships..but can craft other stuff to make out fittings and such.. we capture ships and rebuild them into "our ships" and when they sink we go find a new one to refit.

There are a ton of good ideas in this post as to where they should go..and true pirate people don't want sol they want fast ships that can move and turn..

I am interested to see where they take the pirate nation and the nationlas.. if done right they can be potbs, uncharted waters x100..

Their ship battles and tactics are better than anything out..skill not clicking a button.

Remember we are here to help a game develop all 180 of us on a server at a time.

[Skully]

As good as it sounds you still have to take steps to protect the reputation of the game at some point.

If the game becomes known for scammers it suffers.

If it becomes known for cross teamers it suffers.

Of course, if a game becomes known for heavy handed rules and controls it also suffers.

Somewhere there needs to be balance or at least lines that are not crossed.

Gaming Societies self policing only works when anonymity isn't just a name change or alt account away.

This is why we need moderators.

You said they are cheating - Sabotage is not cheating. Cheating is hacking the code gaining unfair advantage. Sabotaging is different and IS NOT cheating. You called him a cheater. If he is a spy or an alt he is not cheating - he is a saboteur (if he is) and game does not give national officers tools to handle those people.

It is a feature of the game. And in my opinion rightfully so.

We can only recognize this and see what we need to deal with it.

Let me throw out an idea here on voting:

1. The voice of each captain counts.

2. Remove anonymity from the voting.

The second is important to deal with alts and saboteurs.

To me it looks like a cultural clash between Western standards and East European ones. Western ones are very much about fair play, Eastern is more about bringing anything to survive/win.

https://www.google.com/search?q=east+europe+game+cheating

What we might call cheating, they applaud for ingenuity.

So really there is only one form, the one admin has specified: hacking the code.

Anything else comes with the harshness and hardship of this game.

Take this knowledge and embrace it, then we can all discuss on equal terms and simply stop the shouting: "It was US(/Pirates) that did it!"