Patch 9.65 - Crew and resource production

[Enraged Ewok]

They consume the time a new player needs to lvl crafting. Wasted labor hours not yielding crafting exp, which is more needed than before bec of the increased requirements for notes.

 

So pls try to explain to me, why devs are so keen on getting rid of players by introducing more grind instead of attracting new ones by introducing new content ??

 

And don't try to tell us buildings are new content. They are just a  poor  replacement for an already existing  system. And with their current design they are completely useless. 

There is absolutely no need to build one, I can get materials enough and way cheaper than from those buildings.

 

Do you really think I care about 450 iron for the price of 78 coins + 0.5 labor hrs when I can simply buy loads of it for 78 coins w/o wasting my labor hours ???

 

Idk about the PvP servers, but on PvE production buildings are a joke.

 

Change their operation to automatically fill my warehouse w/o the need to invest labor hours and change their number to 5 per outpost, while reducing their production capacity.

Than they would actually make sense on a server with just 200 players...

 

If a new player wants to craft, why are they building production buildings? I thought the point of this update was to allow players to specialize. If you want maximum efficiency craft, you do not spend money or labor on production buildings. If you want maximum efficiency harvesting resources for side income, then why are you spending money and labor on shipyards? Why should you be able to get completely free resources for a small initial startup cost?

 

 

what? PvP pays out bucketloads of cash.

 

This. I made 60k from a PVP battle where I sank a frigate and heavily damaged 5 other ships last night (I had one teammate with me). Even missions are double the gold they used to, as I've gone from 10k (before mission bonus) on captain missions to around 20k. Gold is so easy to come by now that its trivial for me as a captain rank player to reach a level 2 shipyard.

[Hethwill]

what? PvP pays out bucketloads of cash.

 

yes...but so if one wins the combat. but shhhhh don't tell that. Sarcasm intended, self entitled crews want hefty rewards just for showing up...

[Coderre]

Dear Devs,

 

Because of the (mostly) negative posts in this thread I decided to post something.

 

I just love the direction you are going with this patch, it will create a much more dynamic (!) player driven economy (production buildings) and the game will only benefit from this. And there was much more content in this patch than what I had expected, I take my hat off to you.

 

Good luck with further developing this awesome game,

Coderre

Edited March 11, 2016 by Coderre

[Tindahbawx]

The only way solo players or small guilds can do real leveling, if they make second accounts. With this patch second accounts worth much more then before. They just stopped the family share aswell with this patch (what a surprise), lotta of my friend just lost shitload money and resource because of that, what wasnt mentioned before, especailly wasnt mentined that they cant take out thier stuff after patch.

 

Can't say I feel much sympathy for someone who admittedly circumvented the 1 character per steam account restriction.

[Commander Keen]

im sorry to tell you that the patch isnt what i like to see on this game............

 

Content not grinding!!!

 

PLZ make that Interface more comfortable and a nicer look might also be fine :-) Im just Feeling like in DOS times.

 

1. Production buildings are useless as long as we have to pay money and labour hours for stuff we can get much cheaper on the market

2. Shipyard is ok to me

3. Auto Skipper seems to be useless now. Turning against the wind is horrible now.

4. AI seems to be much dumber then before Renomee vs Renomee is a joke now ....so easy that i didnt have to do much....left right / left right / left /right with the wind a few times and the AI is finsihed

5. You cant move when speed is 0 against the Wind! Joking? Manual sailing is working fine Auto Skipper useless.

6. More stuff from Traders... i cant say if this is true or not for the moment i dont see a difference.

7. Some Players loosing all there stuff after a port Change. Come on guys it cant be that hard to make sure that those Players get there stuff back.

 

8. And last but not least a new bug.....firing a broadside very offen.....i cant see any balls flying and no sound.......

 

Kind regards Markus

Edited March 11, 2016 by Commander Keen

[Tennessee88]

Beahahahahaha!!!!

[kumisz]

Auto skipper is not meant to be very good. It is great for speed, but if you want to turn efficiently, use manual sails.

 

If you got stuck in the wind, just turn your sails to move you backwards, and you can use the rudder in reverse to get you out of the wind.

 

3. Auto Skipper seems to be useless now. Turning against the wind is horrible now.

4. AI seems to be much dumber then before Renomee vs Renomee is a joke now ....so easy that i didnt have to do much....left right / left right / left /right with the wind a few times and the AI is finsihed

5. You cant move when speed is 0 against the Wind! Joking? Manual sailing is working fine Auto Skipper useless.

[azazel]

oh this instant gratification generation... "i want everything, instantly and for free"

 

take a step back and think it over:

the game didnt take anything away from you with this patch! you can still go and buy your ressources like you did before and spend all crafting hours on ships (and with the plumenting ressource costs right now even way cheaper)

 

just because they added ressource buildings doesn`t mean you NEED TO use them... you CAN use them, if you want.

you are given a choice here, the choice to be a crafter or a trader, what you spend your crafting hours on is your choice.

 

sure, the costs for a ship yard is hard to swallow or a full time trader might need more than 5 buildings to be able to have enough diversity in trade goods, but all of this is far away from beeing the final version.

 

also the devs need to think about ways to slow down the general progression, without simply adding 2mio exp needed for something. we already have large fleets of 3rd rates only in pvp and soon we will see victories only... and i dont think this is how this game is intended to play out. there should be a load of frigates with the occasional rated ship, not the other way round. if they manage to accomplish that with changes like this i am more than happy with it.

 

i like some of the changes, like the crew management, which still needs some work though (captain should be able to distribute his crew as he wants it, keep the auto distribution maybe for the repair crews, but other than that disable it and turn it into a manual distribution).

the game unfortunatelly tanks a lot more fps than before, i hope they can optimize that further.

i hoped for an entirely level based Blueprint system according to what the devs said before the patch (not a fan of rng, since it usually tends to screw me over  ), but i guess that wont happen.

 

after all this is an early access and people should have known what that means and what they buy into, but since some people didnt even know that this game isn`t just a MOBA, when they bought in at sea trials, i don`t expect much 

 

i am interested to see how this new changes will effect the market and ship prices. (yes i know there will be some cut-throats that try to sell you 3rd rates for a million, but that doesn`t mean it really cost them that much to build it, which would be insane to believe, but they will try to find someone stupid enough to pay that price anyways  )

[azazel]

im sorry to tell you that the patch isnt what i like to see on this game............

 

Content not grinding!!!

 

PLZ make that Interface more comfortable and a nicer look might also be fine :-) Im just Feeling like in DOS times.

 

1. Production buildings are useless as long as we have to pay money and labour hours for stuff we can get much cheaper on the market

2. Shipyard is ok to me

3. Auto Skipper seems to be useless now. Turning against the wind is horrible now.

4. AI seems to be much dumber then before Renomee vs Renomee is a joke now ....so easy that i didnt have to do much....left right / left right / left /right with the wind a few times and the AI is finsihed

5. You cant move when speed is 0 against the Wind! Joking? Manual sailing is working fine Auto Skipper useless.

6. More stuff from Traders... i cant say if this is true or not for the moment i dont see a difference.

7. Some Players loosing all there stuff after a port Change. Come on guys it cant be that hard to make sure that those Players get there stuff back.

 

8. And last but not least a new bug.....firing a broadside very offen.....i cant see any balls flying and no sound.......

 

Kind regards Markus

1) yes, so dont use them if you are a crafter and buy stuff cheap from market and safe your crafting hours. 

2) auto skipper was always useless against the wind, that is why you use manual sails always for turning.

4) maybe you just got unlucky, i had battles before this patch where the AI was pretty dumb and in the next one it was very good. it always varied.

5) realistic? and you figured out how to fix it, use manual sails, grats 

6) i think that one just related to pvp. due to a bug you couldn`t fully loot player traders after capturing them.

7) ok, that was kind of a bad move, they could at least have advertised it (or did they? i actually don`t know)

8) well, bugs happen, you found one grats and report it to the devs 

 

regarding the interface, that isn`t probably very high on the list of the devs, since they want to put more content into the game first, or fix stuff.

Edited March 11, 2016 by azazel

[Commander Keen]

What about Marines after Patch? i just see them @ the right side of the crew management but are they still usefull or do they have have fun with rum :-)

 

kind regards Markus

[maturin]

Marines apparently spend most of their time having fun with rum, until you board someone.

 

IMHO crew missing due to marines modules should have a discount on management penalties. In combat I find it hard to believe that the marines would stand around idle. They're on the weather deck and can easily clap on to a brace or clew line, doing landsman's work. Or reload quarterdeck guns.

[Enraged Ewok]

What about Marines after Patch? i just see them @ the right side of the crew management but are they still usefull or do they have have fun with rum :-)

 

kind regards Markus

 

Marines now replace a certain quantity of crew depending on their quality. 50% for exceptional, lower quality replaces less amount of crew with marines. They all give the same boarding stat bonuses, the difference is more crew is dedicated to boarding only and nothing else the higher quality they are. I've gotten a few green ones I want to try out, but unless its an all in boarding ship I will probably not use exceptional or mastercraft.

[victor]

If you want a game where you don't need to put any work in, i can give you some games name... but no one is a sand box mmo game...

 

But also if you want to make NA into some kind od EVE online 2 (with the downside of having 1/100 of the content you can find in EVE online), please tell me in advance, that I'll raise my sails and flee downwind at full speed.

Edited March 11, 2016 by victor

[Fletch Hardy]

Marines now replace a certain quantity of crew depending on their quality. 50% for exceptional, lower quality replaces less amount of crew with marines. They all give the same boarding stat bonuses, the difference is more crew is dedicated to boarding only and nothing else the higher quality they are. I've gotten a few green ones I want to try out, but unless its an all in boarding ship I will probably not use exceptional or mastercraft.

 

I understand the intent behind the change, but if the game wants to be historically accurate as it claims, Marines did help with guns and cannons, I also think it would be cool if you had the Marines mod on your ship and get close enough to an enemy, the marines would open fire with small arms to try and attempt to hurt the enemy crew.

[azazel]

But also if you want to make NA into some kind od EVE online 2 (with the downside of having 1/100 of the content you can find in EVE online), please tell me in advance, that I'll raise my sails and flee downwind at full speed.

well the skills in this game are aquired actively by the player while playing it.

in EVE you get your skills while beeing offline. i like the NA way more, thx 

[Enraged Ewok]

I understand the intent behind the change, but if the game wants to be historically accurate as it claims, Marines did help with guns and cannons, I also think it would be cool if you had the Marines mod on your ship and get close enough to an enemy, the marines would open fire with small arms to try and attempt to hurt the enemy crew.

 

I understand that and I do believe marines should be extra bodies on the ship like they were before. That being said, as far as I'm aware (at least in the Royal Navy) marines traditionally served the chasers, not the broadside weapons. I don't know how they functioned in other navies in regards to fighting the ship itself.

[Grim DeGrim]

Folks really need to find way to make feedback constructive.

Eg: buildings now make the time to level your crafting skill long. I recommend a system like "blah".

Or: crew management is not yet flexible enough, I recommend being able to allocate crews according to my own preference.

I wouldn't be able to see the grains of truth and potential (if any) in many of these post as a Dev.

Someone worked really hard to try make this for you.

[Slamz]

In 1 IRL hour you can grind about 100k gold by fleeting and missions. 1IRL hour is 42 Labour hours. 100k/42= 2400G/LH

So producing 2x Oak costs 1LH+50g makes one single Oak Log cost 1225G.

 

I love games like this because they teach people about basic economic concepts like inflation. Everyone loves the new money for ship kills but ultimately it just puts tons of money into the economy and inflates the cost of everything.

 

Although you are missing something in your calculation, which is that 1 IRL hour of combat is 1 actual hour of button mashing whereas 1 IRL hour of labor takes about 5 seconds to actually use.

[Mrdoomed]

THE BIG TRAP PATCH!

Hey!

i want a to share my clear opinion whats this patch about.

They made different type of notes to destroy the easy team working on it. They made labour hour and more money dependent the production and craft leveling to destroy easy team work on it. They want everybody (or much more then now) to make economy, but with a high time (IRL) price. Why is that? They got like 10 K players from start, but the player pool leak started, not more accounts created, and with this developer style (really slow and not real issue and problem focused developing) they wont get new players anymore.

Now only big clans can do real craft leveling, small guilds not, they can solo slow level. The only way solo players or small guilds can do real leveling, if they make second accounts. With this patch second accounts worth much more then before. They just stopped the family share aswell with this patch (what a surprise), lotta of my friend just lost shitload money and resource because of that, what wasnt mentioned before, especailly wasnt mentined that they cant take out thier stuff after patch. So developers can get some (not much) money, if they force the well to do (IRL) players to make second account appart from that old players will leave (they still payed, not a big issue for the developing team). Really incorrect and bad developer strategy imo, and shows where the develope and the game future going on. It gives long term but really boring goals (as we have to do the same grinding, just more than now, and the grind just doesnt enough to keep up leveling, need more and more time). i wont sacrifise more time or money to play. Till resorce consuming labour hours and more time to get and we dont have real gameplay developing (endgame content; national balance; lowering useless, borin OS sailing time; server size that fits to map size; variable solo and group missions; still frugal interface lookout after countless patch) im off. I suggest to all playerz not to build any resource building, as its a trap, more building created, more time and money will needed for the same craft leveling as it will stop the server resource product, what gave a more easy way for everybody to level. Gratz developerz! I bet after making craft leveling and resource product much harder and with the battle changing the NPC ship cap harder too soon u will implement ships for real money ending with 3rd rate.

So i want to ask two things from developers, but i think wont get answer either of them. 1: Is it possible and do you plan to improve server(s) capacity or we will always stay on 2 K early acces servers? 2: Do you plan to implement ships for real money? If i get answers, i will know that this game will always stay in "early acces" and slowly dies, or it can overgroth its shadow. But as always (and as it always just in this game) i wont get answer, what is understandable, if im right . This game should be a gemstone just about its initial idea (ship combat system), but it wont be ever a good game because of devs dont have the ideas and the balls to make it better. My trust broken.

So much wall of text and run ons i cant read it all but your anger is showing through. It will all be ok just step away have a smoke take deep breaths. We are all in this together and this is not a finished game for the love of God.

The devs are building a game with our input and help. Dont rage and instead make useful suggestions.

[surfimp]

5. You cant move when speed is 0 against the Wind! Joking?

 

No, that's called "sailing"...

[surfimp]

And to try to redress the negativity in this thread:

 

I really like the new patch!

 

Positive: Have practiced the new crew controls in Small Battles as well as OW/PVE and like them quite a bit. 

Feedback: Agree with what others have said, that it would be nice to have a little bit finer-grained control on the allocations of crew. I understand that the patch notes indicate this is only a first step and that there will be additional refinement. I'll be looking forward to enjoying how this develops, it's already a great start without being really any more difficult than before.

 

Positive: Ships definitely not so easy to capsize as before. NICE!

Feedback: There are still some physics issues, I sent a bug where I had butted up alongside a NPC trader whose sails I'd shot down to 70%. He and I were rail-to-rail and about 5* off the wind, but still going upwind at 5.6kts - 2+ minutes - when we should have been dropping speed like crazy as we were essentially in irons. So there's still room for improvement, for sure.

 

Positive: New trade interface is very cool!

Feedback: It's great to be able to click the [ i ] icon and get information about who has contracts placed for goods. Overall, even though the UI is understandably still placeholder, I feel this was a good usability improvement. I like the swapping of the Buy / Sell columns, too. Good job.

 

Negative: Server maintenance time move to 12:00pm midnight Pacific

Feedback: I understand the servers are least populated at this time, but with Daylight Savings Time coming up it will soon be moving to 11pm Pacific. Because of the frequently protracted nature of activities in Naval Action, you have to start winding down / heading to port about an hour before maintenance, which means US West Coast primetime is now a relatively short 8pm - 10pm... forcing those of us with jobs, school, families, etc. to play a casual schedule. I am concerned this will lead to further drop-off. Suggest alternatives are explored if possible - maybe apply maintenance to US PVP2 server a few hours later than EU PVP1? Just a thought.

[Quineloe]

what? PvP pays out bucketloads of cash.

yes, at the cost of the other guy losing a ship that is more expensive than your reward for sinking him. It's a money sink. That's how they work

Can't say I feel much sympathy for someone who admittedly circumvented the 1 character per steam account restriction.

Except Family share is two accounts, not one.

This is a refund level issue.

[surfimp]

yes, at the cost of the other guy losing a ship that is more expensive than your reward for sinking him. It's a money sink. That's how they work

 

But the cost of ships will possibly come down in time, as the impact of production buildings is felt. The increase in Gold & XP from PVP may lead to an increase in demand / price inflation, but the production buildings may very well lead to a significant increase in supply, and the net result may be the reduction in ship costs, at least after the initial adjustment period. To be seen, I think.

Edited March 11, 2016 by surfimp

[Taranis]

No, that's called "sailing"...

 

Agreed.  There is a reason they called sailing while facing the wind "in irons"...

[Fletch Hardy]

I understand that and I do believe marines should be extra bodies on the ship like they were before. That being said, as far as I'm aware (at least in the Royal Navy) marines traditionally served the chasers, not the broadside weapons. I don't know how they functioned in other navies in regards to fighting the ship itself.

 

From what I've read in the Royal Navy, there was at least one marine per main gun. The number of marines on board Royal Naval ships depended on the size of the ship and was generally kept at a ratio of one marine per ship gun, plus officers. For example: a First Rate Ship of the Line contained 104 marines while a 28 gun Frigate had 29.  Point is the Marines did more than just sit around and wait to board an enemy or disembark on a land assault, they certainly did not take away from the gunnery crew.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Fletch Hardy