Patch 9.65 - Crew and resource production

[Le Loups Du Nord]

Very good update thanks you

[WladimirUN]

Thank you devs, really loving every aspect of the patch, like EVERY point is well thought through and done! loving it and looking forward to this really awesome game and hope you continue the quality like that!

[Quineloe]

Is the one true way to make money in this game PVE grinding? Is this the goal? Economy is a giant money sink now, pvp at least for me is at best a zero sum game, and with the new kill rewards in pve that just became a lot more profitable.

In response to someone earlier, if you properly shoot up a ship before you capture it, you get the kill reward and you can sell it too.

[ove bababoke]

So many lazy whiners in the thread) Dam I've played Surprise with a crew penalty and yes - it was like a piano playing - but I did like it! If you guys can't manage your crew you better play Warships or something s@it like that.

It's pretty easy to manage your crew: drop them to sails, get course and speed -> drop them to gunneries - -> aim -> shoot -> drop to sails and get a maneuveur -> repeat. NA is not Quake where every second leads to frag or death.

It's not really that hard if you just turn yor brains on and try to click more than just 2-3 buttons in battle to succeed.

[Pokerjoker]

Love the new Marines upgrade, now you can customize better  
love it!!

[Otsego]

Its double in pvp

 

It was already double before the patch. In the devblog was an entry "make pvp more rewarding". Yeah on paper it is right but you also increased pve rewards.

Ppl go where risk/reward is best and thats still PvE. Would make sense on PvE-Server but its discouraging on PvP-Server. I don't say the rewards for PvP right now

are low, its the ratio between pve/pvp gank/getting ganked thats wrong.

[charognard666]

This patch is really a good move ! Good job devs, NA feel more like an age of sail game and less like a WoWs game, like it. 

[Zargor]

Love it, the ships feel more ships, tacking is harder as it should be, the crew management adds another dimension without being complicated.

[VonVolks]

Marines would historically crew a gun on a ship, so why not have marines counting towards gunnery crew, but not sailing / damage repair?

 

I'm personally not that bothered as the Admins were clear its just the beginning of large crewing overhaul.

 

Also great job on the patch. Loads of interesting stuff, and I think the no zero speed turning will be hilarious / a nightmare, ahah!

 

People crying about the economy changes seem  to want it all. There is no reason to be able to do so. You can craft / OR produce goods, or do both half as well. Again its an initial change and will be adapted as we go.... I think the 3 levels of craft notes and bringing Copper and Silver into the mix is a very good idea...

[Quineloe]

Pvp simply does not make money. It removes more than it makes

Eg a frigate (8500 on kill) is ganked by 5 players.

That means 8500 kill gold and 17k assist gold and maybe 10k damage gold. Price of a frigate is at least 300k, means 60k per durability.

Means 60k was destroyed and 35k was gained. And that is already very favorable for the whole economy.

Assume the frigate is sunk in 1vs1. One frigate killed 8500 +10000 are generated, 60,000 are lost.

Yes some people can make money through pvp. The top 1% and the gankers. Everyone else needs to grind losses back in pve.

Just like anyone can win the lottery. But not everyone.

[Fast]

Pvp simply does not make money. It removes more than it makes

Eg a frigate (8500 on kill) is ganked by 5 players.

That means 8500 kill gold and 17k assist gold and maybe 10k damage gold. Price of a frigate is at least 300k, means 60k per durability.

Means 60k was destroyed and 35k was gained. And that is already very favorable for the whole economy.

Assume the frigate is sunk in 1vs1. One frigate killed 8500 +10000 are generated, 60,000 are lost.

Yes some people can make money through pvp. The top 1% and the gankers. Everyone else needs to grind losses back in pve.

Just like anyone can win the lottery. But not everyone.

 

Its perfect as it is. If you can't handle it then don't do pvp. If pvp was worth it for winner and loser side, then this would be just another boring everyone is a winner game. 

As it is its already worth to buy 5 dura consts and sink each other...

Edited March 11, 2016 by Fast

[Hethwill]

Marines would historically crew a gun on a ship, so why not have marines counting towards gunnery crew, but not sailing / damage repair?

 

 

 

Not doubting anything but can you please give a reference where the marines/fusiliers attached to a vessel were consistently assigned to cannons ? Even the boarding swivels.

 

Thank you.

[Quineloe]

As it is its already worth to buy 5 dura consts and sink each other...

I have just shown you the math why it isn't. You do like pvp right? What good is it when everyone you sink refuses to pvp by your own advice, do you want this game to be empty?

[Hethwill]

If you can't support a ship, the loss of a ship, the repairs of a ship, the destruction of an entire ship down to the last timber, to the last man, to the last durability point...

 

... ( paraphrasing a E:D maxim )...

 

... use only what you can afford.

 

The "Bigger the Better" syndrome is rampant with no reason whatsoever to back it up.

 

Join the Privateers.

[VonVolks]

Not doubting anything but can you please give a reference where the marines/fusiliers attached to a vessel were consistently assigned to cannons ? Even the boarding swivels.

 

Thank you.

http://www.royalmarinesmuseum.co.uk/sites/default/files/Marines%20Aboard%20Ship.pdf

 

From the horses mouth......

[Otsego]

Is there any official statement regarding teleports? Right now this is one of the biggest barrier to PvP.

[Quineloe]

If you can't support a ship, the loss of a ship, the repairs of a ship, the destruction of an entire ship down to the last timber, to the last man, to the last durability point...

... ( paraphrasing a E:D maxim )...

... use only what you can afford.

The "Bigger the Better" syndrome is rampant with no reason whatsoever to back it up.

Join the Privateers.

So those who dont want to grind npc 3 hours a day so they can afford the ships shouldn't play this game?

Being able to afford something isn't a question of 'can'. Its a question of grinding.

[charognard666]

So those who dont want to grind npc 3 hours a day so they can afford the ships shouldn't play this game?

Being able to afford something isn't a question of 'can'. Its a question of grinding.

 

Like in life, you must go work in order to have some cash to put in your hobbit Make some money in craft/ trade/ npc and go use it in pvp  With something like 20->50k by mission, i don't call it grind....

Edited March 11, 2016 by charognard666

[Dalriaden]

But you're arguing that you want more historical accuracy, when in fact most captians of the era WERE what you would call a ganker!

 

They patroled up and down areas given to them by the Admiralty and sought to raid traders who couldnt shoot back and try to capture enemy warships they thought they could take on. If they saw something bigger than what they thought they could handle, they turned tail and got out of there.

Yes but at the end of a day it's a game which is meant to be fun, the goal should be pvp where the player has to gain the advantage not have it handed to you. Port defense battles = smart strategy run from attackers until time limit is over, at 5 minutes you can run outside circle because it still counts your BR and it wont sink you before end of round. At least make it stop counting BR when outside the circle. Certainly the shoot sails and run strategy is valid but it's terribly boring and not fun for anyone involved.

 

As i said before - missions only enemies can enter which makes it easier for enemies such as trincos that like to attack midshipmen in PR jump into and gank and then run and get into another one evading any security fleet.

 

2 minute timers well I've covered that enough. Ganking is certainly a viable strat, but the ganking needs to come from being smarter/better not because the game hands you every opportunity while punishing you for going for equal pvp. Believe me I firmly believe if you're fighting fair you're fighting wrong in the real world but when it comes to a game and no lives are on the line I want good solid pvp that is fun. Not for it to be a chore.

[James Thomson]

Now that we have similar economy buildings than Potbs we can use SGS wiki to learn about the economy.
http://www.st-george-squadron.com/sgs/wiki/index.php?title=Navy_Board

And by reading that you will find out that using the current economy buildings it is not profitable at all, buying stuff form european traders is better. Why?

In 1 IRL hour you can grind about 100k gold by fleeting and missions. 1IRL hour is 42 Labour hours. 100k/42= 2400G/LH

So producing 2x Oak costs 1LH+50g makes one single Oak Log cost 1225G.

And we have not even included the tax we need to haul the items from place to another, this is not good at all.

 

Edit: P.S These numbers arent exact.

Edited March 11, 2016 by James Thomson

[admin]

In 1 IRL hour you can grind about 100k gold by fleeting and missions. 1IRL hour is 42 Labour hours. 100k/42= 2400G/LH

So producing 2x Oak costs 1LH+50g makes one single Oak Log cost 1225G.

 

 

I hope everyone understand that the current hours and production numbers are a base for further improvement - not the final state of the production.

Hours will be tuned to give the players the opportunity to develop 5 same buildings and be able to gather all production using available labor hours (it is impossible with coal now). In addition to that buildings should provide good income for players who just build them to support their pvp lifestyle. 

[Eishen]

Now that we have similar economy buildings than Potbs we can use SGS wiki to learn about the economy.

http://www.st-george-squadron.com/sgs/wiki/index.php?title=Navy_Board

And by reading that you will find out that using the current economy buildings it is not profitable at all, buying stuff form european traders is better. Why?

In 1 IRL hour you can grind about 100k gold by fleeting and missions. 1IRL hour is 42 Labour hours. 100k/42= 2400G/LH

So producing 2x Oak costs 1LH+50g makes one single Oak Log cost 1225G.

And we have not even included the tax we need to haul the items from place to another, this is not good at all.

 

Edit: P.S These numbers arent exact.

That would be true only  if you were forced  to spend that IRL hour supervising your workers or something alike......in reality nothing prevents you from being grindding , so the income from your buildings is added that on the grinding, so can see no point in the comparison.

 

The need to haul them is the cost, and that will be relatively more or less pprofitable by market prices....and btw that hauling is what must give live to the game, as there ara live traders moving goods there will be people attampting to steal it, and others protecting them  

[DrZoidberg]

THE BIG TRAP PATCH!

Hey!
i want a to share my clear opinion whats this patch about.
They made different type of notes to destroy the easy team working on it. They made labour hour and more money dependent the production and craft leveling to destroy easy team work on it. They want everybody (or much more then now) to make economy, but with a high time (IRL) price. Why is that? They got like 10 K players from start, but the player pool leak started, not more accounts created, and with this developer style (really slow and not real issue and problem focused developing) they wont get new players anymore.
Now only big clans can do real craft leveling, small guilds not, they can solo slow level. The only way solo players or small guilds can do real leveling, if they make second accounts. With this patch second accounts worth much more then before. They just stopped the family share aswell with this patch (what a surprise), lotta of my friend just lost shitload money and resource because of that, what wasnt mentioned before, especailly wasnt mentined that they cant take out thier stuff after patch. So developers can get some (not much) money, if they force the well to do (IRL) players to make second account appart from that old players will leave (they still payed, not a big issue for the developing team). Really incorrect and bad developer strategy imo, and shows where the develope and the game future going on. It gives long term but really boring goals (as we have to do the same grinding, just more than now, and the grind just doesnt enough to keep up leveling, need more and more time). i wont sacrifise more time or money to play. Till resorce consuming labour hours and more time to get and we dont have real gameplay developing (endgame content; national balance; lowering useless, borin OS sailing time; server size that fits to map size; variable solo and group missions; still frugal interface lookout after countless patch) im off. I suggest to all playerz not to build any resource building, as its a trap, more building created, more time and money will needed for the same craft leveling as it will stop the server resource product, what gave a more easy way for everybody to level. Gratz developerz! I bet after making craft leveling and resource product much harder and with the battle changing the NPC ship cap harder too soon u will implement ships  for real money ending with 3rd rate.

So i want to ask two things from developers, but i think wont get answer either of them. 1: Is it possible and do you plan to improve server(s) capacity or we will always stay on 2 K early acces servers? 2: Do you plan to implement ships for real money? If i get answers, i will know that this game will always stay in "early acces" and slowly dies, or it can overgroth its shadow. But as always (and as it always just in this game) i wont get answer, what is understandable, if im right . This game should be a gemstone just about its initial idea (ship combat system), but it wont be ever a good game because of devs dont have the ideas and the balls to make it better. My trust broken.

Edited March 11, 2016 by DrZoidberg

[Hethwill]

The landscape changes are absolutely great.

 

The wind is now affecting the cloth close to what would be expected and this can be felt with great effect on the greater momentum ships.

 

The crew system is a great start. I found myself going through the books and making calculations and at the very worst the crew per gun is on the spot.

 

The combat rewards though seem highly inflated and in a PvP server the PvE combat is delivering absurd amounts of gold. I understand that this can be intended for us to have enough resources to test the new production chains, granted, but the same way the economy is going to be tuned to be player driven, through resource production, the combat must also be evolved in the same direction. While attacking trade is perfectly acceptable in a historical point of view, having roaming herds of unchallenging small AI fleets is still a gold mine. I suggest that if they are to really stay to increase their numbers and make them dangerous to attack even with a full group of high rates.

 

All in all I am very very pleased with the changes.

 

Waiting for more tuning regarding cannon sizes, shot weight and falloff. Also further changes to the boarding interface.

 

 

(( further note, personal opinion: It scares me that only 1 in every 50 comments is about the combat part of NA.... ))

[James Thomson]

That would be true only  if you were forced  to spend that IRL hour supervising your workers or something alike......in reality nothing prevents you from being grindding , so the income from your buildings is added that on the grinding, so can see no point in the comparison.

 

The need to haul them is the cost, and that will be relatively more or less pprofitable by market prices....and btw that hauling is what must give live to the game, as there ara live traders moving goods there will be people attampting to steal it, and others protecting them  

 

You have point there. I should use different comparasion. Maybe the regular time it takes to travel 3 ports hauling stuff. Lets say Half hour? Still it would be 500g at least for oak. I would still buy from EU trader.