I think admin/devs owe a lot of people an answer, put this issue to rest.

[Mrdoomed]

Interesting. Sounds like something that shouldn't be too hard to "simulate". (Lower rewards for pirates). But alas, imagine the rage if we tried to make the pirate "nation" less "nationlike" and more "piratey".

It wont be so bad because the nationals will only have a very few sols from the king and most ships will be ordered to just sit in port or patrol just outside of it. Pirates will have free reign of the ocean just like real history.

I cant wait. It will be so nice knowing where all the want to be captains are forced to patrol while we make easy money.

[TommyShelby]

It wont be so bad because the nationals will only have a very few sols from the king and most ships will be ordered to just sit in port or patrol just outside of it. Pirates will have free reign of the ocean just like real history.

I cant wait. It will be so nice knowing where all the want to be captains are forced to patrol while we make easy money.

 

Actually we order from ship builders if we have enough money (They aren't given from "the king"). 

 

And actually i like the idea of 1st/2nd rates being very rare. 

As for being ordered to just sit in port or patrol outside of it; 

You realise that the British ingame (pvp 1) have several Pavel's and Victory's? Chances are you don't or that you haven't seen them. 

You know why you haven't seem them? 

Because their Pavel's and Victory's are sailing in 20 man fleets or sitting in port. 

I can't wait either man! Let's make the pirates more piratey  

[drogoran]

It wont be so bad because the nationals will only have a very few sols from the king and most ships will be ordered to just sit in port or patrol just outside of it. Pirates will have free reign of the ocean just like real history.

I cant wait. It will be so nice knowing where all the want to be captains are forced to patrol while we make easy money.

 

ok first of what history did you read?

 

second those patroling navy captains will be patrolling fairly much the ENTIRETY of the map looking for YOU to keep their merchant convoys safe

[Zisme]

I have to agree the vitriol against the pirate nation in a testing atmosphere by 1 nation on 1 server is pretty outrageous. Why dont you switch to pirates and see what is going on. then come in and give constructive criticisms. Until that happens any player not in the pirate nation really has nothing to say about the pirate nation. 

[Mrdoomed]

Actually we order from ship builders if we have enough money (They aren't given from "the king").

And actually i like the idea of 1st/2nd rates being very rare.

As for being ordered to just sit in port or patrol outside of it;

You realise that the British ingame (pvp 1) have several Pavel's and Victory's? Chances are you don't or that you haven't seen them.

You know why you haven't seem them?

Because their Pavel's and Victory's are sailing in 20 man fleets or sitting in port.

I can't wait either man! Let's make the pirates more piratey

Ships of navys sat or patrol and were not off sinking any ship of any nation they felt like and you have serious issues if you think a officer in commission of a ship given to him by the navy could just sell the kings shil and buy his own. You nats live in a fantasy world. Is this world of Warcraft naval edition ? Lol.

And i cant wait for everyone to be more realistic! Including pirates cuz on my server i haven't seen a pirate other than my friends in 3 weeks.

[GrapeShot]

For the record - the pirate conversation predates EA by a considerable amount of time. In fact it predates OW.

[Mrdoomed]

ok first of what history did you read?

second those patroling navy captains will be patrolling fairly much the ENTIRETY of the map looking for YOU to keep their merchant convoys safe

Another delusion national lol. Yup sure are lots of you wanna be captains protection you trade ships that i sink a dozen of every day without ever seeing you or when i do you run like scared girls and i have to chase you lol. Wow roll reversal. Grow up dude you guys play as historical as the pirates do lol. You are all just mad cuz some of them fight back.

[Boone]

Without the pirates the game would be dominated by the Royal Navy,you would think the US faction would be happy there a buffer stopping the Brits crushing all before them.

[TommyShelby]

Ships of navys sat or patrol and were not off sinking any ship of any nation they felt like and you have serious issues if you think a officer in commission of a ship given to him by the navy could just sell the kings shil and buy his own. You nats live in a fantasy world. Is this world of Warcraft naval edition ? Lol.

 

Did i say that or are you twisting my words? Sounds more like the latter. "lol".

 

I remember why i stopped participating in the discussion about pirates now. I think i'll leave you to it! Enjoy being "just another nation"  

[Mrdoomed]

I have to agree the vitriol against the pirate nation in a testing atmosphere by 1 nation on 1 server is pretty outrageous. Why dont you switch to pirates and see what is going on. then come in and give constructive criticisms. Until that happens any player not in the pirate nation really has nothing to say about the pirate nation.

This is the exact reason i cant take these same couple pirate haters seriously. In pvp2 my friend and i havent seen another pirate in weeks and what pirates are left are in complete disagreement on everything.

So how is it that my friend and i completely by ourselves sinking or capturing targets of opportunity are ruining the realism of anyone or destroying someones fairytail dreams of what they want pirates to do ? How do the two of us do that ? Please tell me why i need to be punished. Ill wait but i wont get an answer.

[Prater]

Like I've said before.

 

For the immediate fix (but not necessarily the final fix).

 

Remove Pirate ability to attack other pirates.

Remove ability of nationals to turn pirate.

Make Pirates exactly like any other nation, where to turn pirate you have to delete your current character.

 

This doesn't ruin the game of the people playing pirate right now.  It doesn't ruin the game for nationals.

 

Then there won't be a problem.  Otherwise there is a good risk that pirates, overtime, will begin to make up the vast majority against all other nations combined.

 

These should be the immediate steps until the community and devs can come up with accepted pirate mechanics.

[Tindahbawx]

A navy captain gets a significant portion of any prize taken. Something like a fifth or a third, IIRC.

 

A pirate captain gets something like 1/100th, if the crew has 200 men in it. Have fun with that Santi.

 

Yeah, and give the National captains a chance of their press-ganged men having a mutiny over being forced to work on a navy ship for a pittance while they hear tales of all these pirates sailing about getting an equal share of prizes taken.

 

Chance of mutiny rises the more time passes between port calls. At every port call there is a chance that some of your pressed men slip away from service, and you have to deal with sailing slightly undercrewed till you can return to the Capital or a Reigonal Capital to enlist more pressed men.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Tindahbawx

[admin]

We focus on important things and important things are determined by the community. 

Current priorities list (voted by players) will not let us focus on anything related to pirates for quite some time. 

Shouting about lack of attention to this topic is wrong and will only lead to ruined relationships of the dev team with those players.

Some are even threatening to leave the game which for us means complete lack of understanding of what this community voted for to be done first (+ also means that pirates won )

 

Regarding pirates

First will address the port capture

 

Lack of port capture is not going to make pirate gameplay interesting. Henry Morgan captured a lot of towns using his own forces (at some point he had 1400 infantry under his command - all buccaneers), if henry morgan could do it (he had funds and could hire people on the promise of riches) then any JackSparrow111 could do it too if he has enough funds and friends. But you can try to persuade us to the contrary.

 

Current mechanics were explained in detail to mods and those who asked.

The difference with the pirate mental model is strong for several reasons. 

 

Reason 1: Current war mechanics.

• Pirates can attack each other.
• But everyone else can also attack each other.
• Because you can attack anyone anyway -
• pirate is no different from the dutch because he can freely engage anyone
• Because of this the line between nations (who can be at peace) and pirates (who are always attackable) is blurred from the national player point of view
• But you miss one thing - pirate is not safe from his friends (explained in detail in reason 4.)

Reason 2: Sandbox goals

 

In a sandbox everyone has access to same tools and can use them the way they want.

Some players want pirates to have to extremely limited tools hoping their gameplay will become a lot more interesting as a result. For some reason many of those players are not pirates. Two proposals are common: lack of port capture (in reality pirates did capture towns) and lack of ability to sail first rates (in reality pirates did not need first rates because their goal was to steal enough money to retire)

 

In the sandbox getting enough money is easy and if you don't want to retire you create new goals for yourself and retiring is not one of them. Because its a sandbox you cannot really control those goals.

 

Reason 3. No war/peace cycle

If peace/war could cycle could happen between nations then pirates would be a main target (because criminals) during peace times - or used as harassing force against nations you are at peace with. Original thought was this - players who are interested lots of pvp opportunities join pirates because they attack each other (lots of PvP). But player base use the tools provided the way they want. And pirates decided to unite. 

 

Reason 4. Unity

Those who comment on the lack of difference do not understand the strong unity that exist in the pirate nation. You can attack and sink ANY Pirate with no consequence. You see a beautiful ship you don't have; you attack it and take it. Pirate towns are not safe (unlike british coasts). Pirates can sink you if you are a pirate and steal everything. But Pirates DONT attack each other because of the unity, because thats what they chose to believe. 

 

Reason 5. Disney and books

It is tied to goals players set for themselves. But disney/historical pirates are very hard to replicate in a sandbox environment. Because

Disney pirate - robs 3 player snows filled with gold and retires.

Sandbox pirate - robs 3 player snows filled with gold and buys a 3rd rate.

Rob enough players and you have a fleet of 25 third rates. 

 

In summary

Players proposing "I was hoping pirates were interesting" should offer things that will make pirates interesting. 

People play historical sandboxes because they want to change history, because they want to conquer the world as Albania in EU4 or conquer germany as poland 1938 in Hearts of Iron. But because its multiplayer you can stop them.

 

Pushing the game from sandbox into themepark will affect nations more than pirates.

[Hethwill]

Sounds reasonable for the time being Prater.

 

Nationals attacking nationals turn Neutral. Case solved until piracy/infamy is setup from the cauldron of years of discussions.

[Justme]

No-ones afraid of harder gameplay, what we don't want is being excluded from the majority of current content just because some people can't deal with the fact that theres a pirate nation in this game at its current stage of development.

I'm perfectly happy for pirates to take on a role more suited to harassment and trader raiding, once the wider game economy is more developed to support that without locking people playing the pirate faction from a large portion of the games current content.

The issue is that pirates are not what the developers intended them to be originally. The fact that you believe they will change it once other things are fixed boggles my mind. One pirates are in the majority the developers will not change it.

I get that some players ( long beard for ex)are fine with pirates being a dull nation clone, but as hard as it is believe there are some of us who wanted a little more from it after reading that it was supposed to be more challenging than the nation players.

Many of us were looking forward to a more difficult option that the devs had envisioned,but now we are being denied the opportunity due to a bunch of crying jack sparrow wannabes

Edited March 3, 2016 by Justme

[Anne Wildcat]

You are only crying bc, rumor has it, a number of US turned pirate after all the Britt & pirate attacks. I like the ability to be able to attack other pirates. What might help is the ability to run to any other nation even though you will still be QQing.

You are only crying bc, rumor has it, a number of US turned pirate after all the Britt & pirate attacks. I like the ability to be able to attack other pirates. What might help is the ability to run to any other nation even though you will still be QQing.

That was a reply to praeters post above.

[TommyShelby]

We focus on important things and important things are determined by the community. 

Current priorities list (voted by players) will not let us focus on anything related to pirates for quite some time. 

Shouting about lack of attention to this topic is wrong and will only lead to ruined relationships of the dev team with those players.

 

Regarding pirates

First will address the port capture

 

Lack of port capture is not going to make pirate gameplay interesting. Henry Morgan captured a lot of towns using his own forces (at some point he had 1400 infantry under his command - all buccaneers), if henry morgan could do it (he had funds and could hire people on the promise of riches) then any JackSparrow111 could do it too if he has enough funds and friends. But you can try to persuade us to the contrary.

 

Current mechanics were explained in detail to mods and those who asked.

The difference with the pirate mental model is strong for several reasons. 

 

Reason 1: Current war mechanics.

• Pirates can attack each other.
• But everyone else can also attack each other.
• Because you can attack anyone anyway. 
• Thus - pirate is no different from the dutch because he can freely engage anyone
• Because of this the line between nations (who can be at peace) and pirates is blurred from the national player point of view
• But you miss one thing - pirate is not safe from his friends (explained in detail in reason 4.)

Reason 2: Sandbox goals

 

In a sandbox everyone has access to same tools and can use them the way they want.

Some players want pirates to have to extremely limited tools hoping their gameplay will become a lot more interesting as a result. For some reason many of those players are not pirates. Two proposals are common: lack of port capture (in reality pirates did capture towns) and lack of ability to sail first rates (in reality pirates did not need first rates because their goal was to steal enough money to retire)

 

In the sandbox getting enough money is easy and if you don't want to retire you create new goals for yourself and retiring is not one of them. Because its a sandbox you cannot really control those goals.

 

Reason 3. No war/peace cycle

If peace/war could cycle could happen between nations then pirates would be a main target (because criminals) during peace times - or used as harassing force against nations you are at peace with. Original thought was this - players who are interested lots of pvp opportunities join pirates because they attack each other (lots of PvP). But player base use the tools provided the way they want. And pirates decided to unite. 

 

Reason 4. Unity

Those who comment on the lack of difference do not understand the strong unity that exist in the pirate nation. You can attack and sink ANY Pirate with no consequence. You see a beautiful ship you don't have; you attack it and take it. Pirate towns are not safe (like british coasts). Pirates can sink you. But Pirates DONT attack each other because of the unity, because thats what they chose to believe. 

 

Reason 5. Disney and books

It is tied to goals players set for themselves. But disney/historical pirates are very hard to replicate in a sandbox environment. Because

Disney pirate - robs 3 player snows filled with gold and retires.

Sandbox pirate - robs 3 player snows filled with gold and buys a 3rd rate.

Rob enough players and you have a fleet of 25 third rates. 

 

In summary

Players proposing "I was hoping pirates were interesting" should offer things that will make pirates interesting. 

People play historical sandboxes because they want to change history, because they want to conquer the world as Albania in EU4 or conquer germany as poland 1938 in Hearts of Iron. But because its multiplayer you can stop them.

 

Pushing the game from sandbox into themepark will affect nations more than pirates.

 

Gosh am i glad to see something more in depth than the last time you guys responded to this topic. (atleast the last response on this topic that i saw; "We can't change it because people will be mad".) 

 

Thank you so much!. 

 

As to why i'm not coming with suggestions is because there is already 200 topics on this forum with great suggestions as to how the pirates could be more "piratey".

 

 

I remember when port battles were introduced we were told that port raiding was also going to be a thing. I still look forward to that as i think that might give us another tool to make the pirate nation more piratey (Eg, capturing ports should be super expensive for pirates but raiding should be super cheap).

[Mrdoomed]

We focus on important things and important things are determined by the community.

Current priorities list (voted by players) will not let us focus on anything related to pirates for quite some time.

Shouting about lack of attention to this topic is wrong and will only lead to ruined relationships of the dev team with those players.

Some are even threatening to leave the game which for us means complete lack of understanding of what this community voted for to be done first (+ also means that pirates won )

Regarding pirates

First will address the port capture

Lack of port capture is not going to make pirate gameplay interesting. Henry Morgan captured a lot of towns using his own forces (at some point he had 1400 infantry under his command - all buccaneers), if henry morgan could do it (he had funds and could hire people on the promise of riches) then any JackSparrow111 could do it too if he has enough funds and friends. But you can try to persuade us to the contrary.

Current mechanics were explained in detail to mods and those who asked.

The difference with the pirate mental model is strong for several reasons.

Reason 1: Current war mechanics.

• Pirates can attack each other.
• But everyone else can also attack each other.
• Because you can attack anyone anyway -
• pirate is no different from the dutch because he can freely engage anyone
• Because of this the line between nations (who can be at peace) and pirates (who are always attackable) is blurred from the national player point of view
• But you miss one thing - pirate is not safe from his friends (explained in detail in reason 4.)

Reason 2: Sandbox goals

In a sandbox everyone has access to same tools and can use them the way they want.

Some players want pirates to have to extremely limited tools hoping their gameplay will become a lot more interesting as a result. For some reason many of those players are not pirates. Two proposals are common: lack of port capture (in reality pirates did capture towns) and lack of ability to sail first rates (in reality pirates did not need first rates because their goal was to steal enough money to retire)

In the sandbox getting enough money is easy and if you don't want to retire you create new goals for yourself and retiring is not one of them. Because its a sandbox you cannot really control those goals.

Reason 3. No war/peace cycle

If peace/war could cycle could happen between nations then pirates would be a main target (because criminals) during peace times - or used as harassing force against nations you are at peace with. Original thought was this - players who are interested lots of pvp opportunities join pirates because they attack each other (lots of PvP). But player base use the tools provided the way they want. And pirates decided to unite.

Reason 4. Unity

Those who comment on the lack of difference do not understand the strong unity that exist in the pirate nation. You can attack and sink ANY Pirate with no consequence. You see a beautiful ship you don't have; you attack it and take it. Pirate towns are not safe (like british coasts). Pirates can sink you. But Pirates DONT attack each other because of the unity, because thats what they chose to believe.

Reason 5. Disney and books

It is tied to goals players set for themselves. But disney/historical pirates are very hard to replicate in a sandbox environment. Because

Disney pirate - robs 3 player snows filled with gold and retires.

Sandbox pirate - robs 3 player snows filled with gold and buys a 3rd rate.

Rob enough players and you have a fleet of 25 third rates.

In summary

Players proposing "I was hoping pirates were interesting" should offer things that will make pirates interesting.

People play historical sandboxes because they want to change history, because they want to conquer the world as Albania in EU4 or conquer germany as poland 1938 in Hearts of Iron. But because its multiplayer you can stop them.

Pushing the game from sandbox into themepark will affect nations more than pirates.

THANK YOU SO MUCH MR ADMIN !

This is exactly what i and others have said and im glad i can now feel vindicated thinking the only reason pirates act the way they do is the nationals let them and the pirate players choose to !

THANK YOU ADMIN.

I can ignore this topic now.

[Tindahbawx]

*snipped for brevity*

 

I love everything about this post. Hope you're feeling better.

[Powderhorn]

Thank you for the explanation. The "why" with us is often far more important than the "how."

[Zisme]

The admin is spot on...thanks!!!

[admin]

Btw. would like to add

That if revolutions are added in the majority of pirate lands and current Antilles will most likely be controlled by the Duchy of Warsaw, Russian Empire and Prussia (brandenburg/bavaria/pomerania). Pirates will lose players to desired historical nations of their main clans.

[Prater]

You are only crying bc, rumor has it, a number of US turned pirate after all the Britt & pirate attacks. I like the ability to be able to attack other pirates. What might help is the ability to run to any other nation even though you will still be QQing.

That was a reply to praeters post above.

 

 

Not just US, but Spanish and Swedish.  People are turning pirate all the time, and large amounts.

 

If you want the game to survive, you must want there to be stuff in place to make sure that it doesn't, over time, turn into 60% or more pirate vs 40% or less nations.

 

Or, keep your current attitude, and prove that you don't have the best interest at heart for the game.

 

I've argued for balanced pirate gameplay, that for every disadvantage they need an advantage, or either be the same as a nation.  Many people have argued for that, but all you see are attacks on your style of play.  Just like I've argued in defense of many styles not my own.  I am here for the long haul, not the short term.  And I'll even concede on the point of the game needs to be less grindy if it means the survival of the game.

[TommyShelby]

Btw. would like to add

That if revolutions are added in the majority of pirate lands and current Antilles will most likely be controlled by the Duchy of Warsaw, Russian Empire and Prussia (brandenburg/bavaria/pomerania). Pirates will lose players to desired historical nations of their main clans.

 

Now that, that sounds pretty friggin awesome imo!  

[admin]

Not just US, but Spanish and Swedish.  People are turning pirate all the time, and large amounts.

 

 

 

 

Thats what the Early access is for. to find how things work in reality (not on paper) and to fix.

People turn to pirates because they want to win. Surprisingly the fact that pirates can attack each other makes them more united and more organized - we did not expect that.