admin Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 BR 1-2X difference favors the attacker BR 4X+ favors the defender We will find the right balance One of the best solutions is to just eliminate the BR completely but it might prolong the battles much longer. The main goal of the BR difference win condition was to help resolve the battles faster if attacker has a huge ship difference. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herminator Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I do not understand. You want to let 25 light frigates to win against 25 3rd rates? Atleast you should give them the chance? Now you don't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 you should have risen the penalty for sailing undercrewed ships, especially the Conny and 3rd rate! For us, the Danish-Norwegians, we suffer from this when fighting the British, and benefits when fighting the Swedes. So in the end I guess the biggest looser from this is the Spanish and Swedish. Assuming your statement is true you can use them as well right? 3rd rates are free and can be sailed by any midshipman. Bring them and win with ease. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentine Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 One of the best solutions is to just eliminate the BR completely but it might prolong the battles much longer. The main goal of the BR difference win condition was to help resolve the battles faster if attacker has a huge ship difference. If the attacker has an overwhelming force then they'll just stomp the towers down in a relatively short time anyway. If that's the only reason I'm inclined to say it's a non issue, just have it down to time and towers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyShelby Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 3rd rates are free and can be sailed by any midshipman. Bring them and win with ease. But holy crap is it boring to constantly be capturing AI 3rd rates to do Port Battles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) listen.. The British allready have fully crewed 3rd rates. so thats out of the question. they allready have more than x2 BR at the start. now 15min before the battle ends.. this is way to late. they win after killing the 5 towers. now this only takes 30min max for the british. so please do enlighten me again, how this is not favoring the british? I think more than the British have fully crewed 3rd rates. The patch is clearly designed to reward a team for turning up to a battle with a more organised and larger fleet rewarding. Running away to avoid sinking means you leave the thing you are defending behind for the attackers to claim. Good patch to address this issue. Edited February 18, 2016 by Albert 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inkompetent Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Assuming your statement is true you can use them as well right? 3rd rates are free and can be sailed by any midshipman. Bring them and win with ease. Which only works if the enemy also sails only captured, crappy 3rd rates at best (preferably not even that), and aren't crafting them and making them full of upgrades and live oak or have the ability to crew them fully. Edited February 18, 2016 by Inkompetent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyShelby Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Which works if the enemy also sails only captured, crappy 3rd rates, and aren't crafting them and making them full of upgrades and live oak. You know that captured 3rd rates can be live oak and have exceptional inbuilts + 5 regular upgrade slots? :3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inkompetent Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) You know that captured 3rd rates can be live oak and have exceptional inbuilts + 5 regular upgrade slots? :3 But one would be very reluctant to put expensive upgrades into those slots even if managing to capture a good one, especially if being forced to sail it undercrewed against people in fully crewed 3rd rates and Constitutions. By removing room to maneuver it will ALWAYS be that biggest & strongest wins. Skill will be removed as a factor. Thankfully the circle size shrink is still at the end of the battle, and people can simply leave with their ships and survive, but managing to WIN by avoiding a plain, short-range exchange of broadsides will be completely impossible. Edited February 18, 2016 by Inkompetent 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyspa Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Which only works if the enemy also sails only captured, crappy 3rd rates at best (preferably not even that), and aren't crafting them and making them full of upgrades and live oak or have the ability to crew them fully. Well ain't that the point of crafting, otherwise it would be meaningless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 Anyways 2X change was addressing one problem and might create another one. I can change it back, because shrinking battle circle can solve the circle strafing problem itself. for those who don't know Circle strafing: Battle starts with 25v25+ towers. Attacker kills all towers and kills 20 ships losing 10 5 enemy ships start running and still win based on a battle rating - while in reality they lost the port, lost the main fleet and lost the towers. Some nations stopped doing shallow water port battles completely because of this problem - it was easy to strafe the circle winning the battle just based on the 3X battle difference This problem was addressed. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentine Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 But one would be very reluctant to put expensive upgrades into those slots even if managing to capture a good one, especially if being forced to sail it undercrewed against people in fully crewed 3rd rates and Constitutions. Even with a full set of upgrades it's cheaper than crafting, takes less time than crafting, and a crafted third rate only has two additional durability over a captured one. If you're not willing to risk losing some upgrades then that's your decision to make I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inkompetent Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Anyways 2X change was addressing one problem and might create another one. I can change it back, because shrinking battle circle can solve the circle strafing problem itself. I think that this might be enough. It would force the defenders to choose between remaining in the circle and potentially die as they try to keep the BR up, or they can escape to save themselves, but losing the battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim DeGrim Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 A cap on the defensive and offensive overall battle rating could limit and force ship diversity in future PB's. It wouldn't be realistic for 25 third rates as example (extreme, but you get the idea). Future idea maybe. (nay sayers pounce now!) Or penalize a group over a set battle rating by increasing the Port Battle BR spread... EG attacker brings 25 3rd rates, the BR goes to 4x...and vice versa. Good patch. I'm hopeful for the chat bug address. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quineloe Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Even with a full set of upgrades it's cheaper than crafting, takes less time than crafting, and a crafted third rate only has two additional durability over a captured one. If you're not willing to risk losing some upgrades then that's your decision to make I'm afraid. That is a problem with third rate crafting then. I don't understand why 3rd rates only have 3 dura when they can be captured? Shouldn't the advantage of built over capped be 5 durabs? Either make 3rd rate uncaptureable or make built ones 5 dura. But then again, how far are we from mass producing third rates? I cant eve craft surprises and renommees due to piss poor luck on mercury and cerberi crafts. And I can almost craft frigates now. Most ships people ask for now I cant build. What about that issue? Major patch #1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokerjoker Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 well so far, the most BR Denmark- Norway has had against the british is 4200. now they attack with 8800 BR. this means the battle is allready over, they steam roll towers and win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 We seem to be beholden to AI capture (free and easy ships). It will always cause problems. Port battles should be driving demand for high level crafted ships. They are not. Instead they are driving demand for endless of stream free, easy (but boring), AI Constitution and 3rd Rate captures. This will always favor attacker unless the defender is confined to a very limited area. Because massively undercrewed ships have limited applications, they are not likely to be in use on the OS in normal play. Rather, because the attacker knows when and where they will attack, players will stockpile them (using end battle teleport) in a convenient port/s then distribute them to whoever shows up as needed. The AI gravy train coordination problem is greatly simplified. Defender on the other hand is reacting with limited time and will be much more likely to show up with what they currently sailing on OS or already own themselves. Solutions: -rethink AI capture system -put hard limit on crewing ships more than 1 level above rank (perfectly realistic as no midshipman was ever given command of 3rd rate and sent into battle). 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 You guys have not fought the real forts yet. 27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charognard666 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 You guys have not fought the real forts yet. O My God 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack_the_Stripper Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Would be grate if you could introduse bigger AI fleets like 3 3rd and 2 connies or 6 connies but they are getting to small 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderhorn Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Just be more sinister about it. All captured AI Constitutions and 3rds mysteriously are made out of fir... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloody Hound Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) It's a shame this didn't come sooner pirates on PVP1 would have taken a good 2-3 shallow ports by now that have been on stale mate since the capture as people ran away(cough US). Ah well better late than never! Good patch, And that Big fort picture is nice! How will this work with the new 'Land Sighted' Mechanic of bringing in the land around the port etc! Edited February 18, 2016 by The Bloody Hound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leviathan Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 You guys have not fought the real forts yet. You know it's going to be painful when you can barely see the cannons on this Behemoth 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderhorn Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 That's what you have bait... I mean, intrepid officers for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellifant Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 no more hiding from tower canons i guess eh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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