Vaan De Vries

Wow, I never even intended to insult you. Jeez, maybe you really shouldn't play anything MMO like if you treat this as an insult? And where exactly has I complained? You really are a funny person. What is most fun in these forums is that ppl believe all their whining is really not whining..

I am not in clan, I don't participate in events, I play almost always alone or with a friend, we like to sail and fight in OW. And I do trade and craft obviously, cause I need to get ships :)) Yep, I do PB from time to time but I cherish small frigate actions much more. So I do have quite a deep understanding of what you are talking about. But seeing from your infant comments you aren't interested in discussion - only in lobbing another "Let's bring star trek technologies into age of sail game cause I am too lazy to use existing stuff or to improve my logistics" thread. In age of sail game ship SHOULD SAIL IN OW not warp through some magic channels. 2000 gamer generation...

A lot of people in Revenge fleets still can't comprehend the OW time/instance time differences and are whining about "camping in BS" being cheat and now yet another person tries to add even more complexity. We already have teleports between outposts, deliveries between free towns, soon we will have ship deliviries between outposts - what else do you need? Maybe you need the game to play for itself kinda like happy farmer? The only long journeys are to Bermuda isles and this long trip is worth it!

As I said. Why does 5 minutes sailing in OW to coordinates specified on chat or TS give you the right to attack the player that you would never catch in real world cause it would require 2+ hours of sailing? Let everybody who is camping outside BS to sail in battle instance the time proportional to the time passed in Battle instance? Let's do the math. I don't know exact current proportion between OW/battle instance time, but let's say it is X. So if battle lasted 5 mins, to get a chance to attack evil ganker you will have to sail in EMPTY sea for 5*X minutes. for battle lasting 30 mins - 30*X times. Good luck! Am I sounding absurd proposing this? Well, then you sound absurd for me proposing captain who already escaped the battle which lasted very little OW time (battle instance time DIVIDED by X) have to sail away from BS campers who spent 5 mins of their time sailing in OW. The bottom line is this: there was no revenge fleet during real age of sail. If help isn't there in 2 hours battle instance time (how much is it in OW time) that ganked ship(s) are all for themselves. If attacker managed to defeat them or in any other way leave the battle - he already ESCAPED. The conditions of leaving battle are is no way ideal but they are out of scope for this discussion. There should be no battle camping outside! Ganker has EVERY RIGHT to flee. So we could either ban people who are camping battles in revenge fleets or give gankers GUARANTEED chance to escape revenge fleet, THAT SHOULDN'T BE THERE in a first place. Currently this is being done by allowing to wait in BS. I proposed to allow ALREADY ESCAPED ship to choose the point of it's escape. This is sandbox. If you are not able to defend yourself in OW - don't sail alone. No mechanics should be placed to prevent careless players from being sunk. There is already a lot of stuff (forts, towers, AI fleets) to help them stay afloat..

Yep, they are good for suicide missions, but some upgrades, especially not craftable ones give quite an advantage. There is a difference between ship being useless and being not competitive. Some battles I won against excep ships fitted with gold upgrades as mine were won on en edge and would be definitely lost without it. But for some battles against not so skillfull or worse outfitted ships upgrades doesn't matter - I agree. But from my experience most people currently sail gold ships with 3-5 yellow upgrades. good solution too, but requires a lot of rework from devs side. I was proposing kind of a cheap and easier to implement solution above current system. Also, my proposition was based on a crafting changes thread started by Admin, where I saw no changes for upgrade system and it startled me a bit. Cause current ship crafting with fine wood is quite historical (After I read details about how difficult it was to obtain Live Oak logs specifically required for building of first 3 of American Frigates) and understandable, but upgrades mechanic is crying for rework :))

I would say grant anyone being able to leave the battle which lasted more than say 5 mins the ability to choose the point of getting out in OW in say 1-min OW sailing radius. Cause anyway - if you are able to leave the battle - you already spent enough time in it to "justify" you being able to move a bit in OW. But this is difficult to implement and is prone to abuse (providing you can constantly tag someone and do what appears to be teleporting in OW). But leaving battle open for some time (like 1 min) can mitigate consequences of this. Glad we finally reach some conclusion on which we both agree :))

Agree completely, hence I welcome the return of the ability to enter the battle after some time in next patch. But still the existence of revenge fleets is no better than BS camping. Let's just say if you wasn't there in OW to see battle commencing with your own yeas you won't be able to get to the battle place before attacker is long gone. Period. So if attacker is willing to engage revenge fleet which Teleported to the battle place - he is welcome to do so. If he is not willing - he can use his chance to slip away. The main thing I am advocating - everyone is responsible for himself being ganked and shouldn't rely upon the possibility of revenge fleet camping attacker outside. If you want to be protected during your trade run- ask for convoy, stick to slow AI fleet or take your chance in a fast trader like LGV. Or better introduce patrols of your territory. It works quite well by brushing gankers fleets aside or battling with them and clearing OW area for traders. It's a sandbox - if people want to stop gankers - they just have to work together and stop them - not asking devs to introduce new mechanics to make the game even more carebear than it is now.

Currently in ROE you have 2 circles system representing the approximate distance you can cover in 2 hours real sailing time after which battle will be ended anyways. So it you are not in this bigger circle - you won't be able to help attacked ship OR to pursue an attacker. This is not a bad ROE - this is bad understanding of limitation of OW/instance battle systems. On one side we have people suggesting to introduce "warp tunnels", but on the other side we have people that can't quite comprehend that "seeing ship attacked" in OW still means you will have to sail 3+ hour of real time to reach the battle place. And WHEN battle already commence and you are able to spend 2 mins sailing to the battle place in OW it doesn't mean you have right to attack the ship getting out of battle, because to reach the battle place in real world you would have to spend 3+ hours sailing and attacker would be long gone. So it's really revenge fleets that are using Star Wars jumping technology. Cause in real world - if you are outside of the tagging circle - you won't have ANY chance to arrive at the battle place before battle ends. Attacker is free to flee anywhere. Perhaps to make things equal everybody wanting to attack ship coming out of battle should spend 2+ hours just sailing in empty sea - perfect imitation of what it would take to reach battle in reality. Only after 2 hour sail will you be allowed to attack anyone. Let's see home many "Avengers" will accept such mechanic. It's quite funny how many think that 2 min sailing in OW (instead of 3+ hour sailing it would take in battle instance) to coordinates communicated to them in chat or TS should give them right to attack someone they would never caught in real life.

Why aren't you then objecting about Star Wars national chat mechanic giving you possibility to organise revenge fleets? During real age of sail there was no possibility to ask friends in nation chat or in TS to come and revenge your pour soul to THIS PARTICULAR COORDINATES. But I am not hearing anyone saying "let's remove chats from game and ban everybody using TS". Nobody says "let's remove TP between outposts (not even Star Wars - more like Star TRAK technology) so the friends of this trader won't be able to jump through half the map and organise revenge fleet". During real age of sail there would be NO REVENGE Fleet at all cause everybody will know a trader been lost maybe in 1-2 month time. So technically you attacked someone unseen - nobody was able to enter the battle and help this poor ganked captain - you are free to go. You don't have to deal with revenge fleet summoned here by Star Wars chat mechanic. Also I was the one to propose restriction to stay in BS or logoff when sailing in enemy region territory. I am not against it. BUT crying and whining that ganking is like the biggest problem of this game is just laughable. It's really hard to get ganked in this game in its current meta. It's just people used to single-players games or WOW like games don't quite understand what a PVP sandbox is.

Hello, captains and devs! I would like to discuss an issue with capped ships and upgrades. Yesterday together with a friend we capped nice exceptional Bermuda Cedar Pirate refit Frigate. Last week before Bridgetown PB I also was able to cap nice LiveOak strong hull Agamemnon. Both are very good ships (though for different purposes) and I will be happy to sail them. Except that I won't. Cause to outfit such a good ship to be competitive I require 8 yellow upgrades which boils down to 32 mid grade notes. And this is too much risk for guy like me to sail one dura ship and risking to lose 32 mid grade notes. And the first rule of sandbox PVP game - don't sail what you can't afford to lose. So from my point of view capped ships are almost useless now. Just because on one side you can quite easily aquire 5-6 yellow regular upgrades and just trade them from ship to ship without risk of loosing them if you don't like living on the edge sailing 1 dura ships with upgrades installed. And spending 3 permanent upgrades for 5 dura frigates once in a while is not a big deal. 1st rates are quite another thing but outfitting 1st/2nd rates SHOULD BE expensive so I am ok with that. What I am not ok with is to cap enemy ship and have all permanent and regular upgrades magically dissapearing from it rendering it useless. We have 2 kind of solutions for that: 1. Make all ships one dura. This is pretty good solution - if devs will implement it I just assume we will cap ships with all upgrades installed. Nothing to be said more on this. But I think 1 dura won't be accepted well by a "whining" part of the community. So maybe we can discuss another solution. Introduce upgrades durability. Make all upgrades have like 5 duras (or any other agreed number) after crafting. When ship is capped or sunk all installed upgrades lose durability. Capped ships have 1 dura and all installed upgrades will have 1 dura. You can put 5-dura upgrade on a 1 dura ship and if you lost ship you will still have 4-dura upgrade with you. The concept may be a little "magical" and "ahistorical" but it's no more magical than ships having more than 1 life. So let's discuss pros: 1. Finally you can sail capped ships and be competitive. Even better - now for really good capped ships they will come with upgrades preinstalled. 2. It will create natural sink for upgrades. Currently I can just craft 5-6 yellow regular upgrades and use them between all my ships. I need to craft/aquire them only once and use them forever. 3. It may shift OW battling from 3-5 yellow upgrade meta. For PB most probably everyone still will use the best they have (like now with 1st rate PBs) but for daily OW hunting people MAYBE will tend to more casual upgrade quality. Cons: 1. whining part of the community will probably tell it will make crafting more "unbearable" than it is even now (For god sake I had to spent around 5 hours of real time in a week to get myself a yellow Agamemnon!) Discuss!

What OP gear are you talking about? Agamemnons? I never participated in any event, I am not in clan. And yet I collected all needed resources and labor contracts, asked in a nation (Dutch) chat for an agamemnon to be built and I got myself one with British refit without paying for anything except for the mats. And soon my friend will get Strong Hull La Ocean pretty much the same way. Collect all needed mats and ask nicely in a nation chat. Or do you think you should be given good ship in PVP OW sandbox game without moving even one finger?

Oh my. This whining about gankers again... Honestly, do you try to "gank" someone yourself? With all the forts, insane amount of AI fleets (in Danish, Sweden and French waters you can found a spot from which you can at the same time see 5-6 AI fleets constantly) Ai fleet you can take with you. If you got attacked "right in fron of you capital" - just sail to the freeking fort! What poor victims are you talking about? The PVE "admiral" saiing on lone 1st rates and whining they are capped by 1-2 frigates? Well, If they don't know how to sail a 1st rate than maybe they shouldn't sail one alone. Cause if you search this forum you find enough sccreenshots with lone SOL demasting all the frigates sanking a couple of them and then just sailing away. Because her captain knows what he is doing. Yeasterday I was escorting in my Pavel a friend in an Indiaman and we got "ganked" by a couple of french frigates. One of them lost 2 of his masts on my second salvo! Yes, due to stupid repair mechanic he was able to repair his sails back to 85% but only to retreat after that. Ok, maybe you are talking about some poor traders in LGV, Well, I never was caught in my green capped from AI LGV. My friend once was chased by 2 Surprises, 2 Trinc and renommee and he escaped in OW (without forts, AI fleets and etc). It's all about keeping attention and knowing sailing profiles of different ships. LGV, for example is capable of outrunning almost anything except fot Rattlesnake maybe. But I don't see a lot of rattlesnakes out there "ganking". Finally, maybe you are talking about lone Indiamans? Well, I would say that all "ganking friendly" regions are well known and if you sailing in a lone Indiaman in these regions you have nobody to blame but yourself. Don't be shy - ask for a convoy. Community in this game is very helpful - you will find someone to help you. I am playing for both sides. I too need to trade and gather resources and build ships in distant regions. Typically I am playing alone or together with a friend. When we are done with trading we like to hunt near Carricou and Hat Island. We never attack players in brigs with low rank. About traders I can say - it's very hard to catch the one that knows what he is doing. Current ROE with forts, towers, AI fleets is favorable for skilled traders. About PVP - we never gank low-level players in brigs. But I've been in several battles with french where we fought 3 vs 4 or 3 vs 2 and they were easier to won than some 2 vs 2 battles against skilled players. Had awesome 2 vs 2 against 2 Pirates on a Frigates (we were on 2 surprises) yesterday. My friend was almost sunk (less then 10% hp on both sides) but we we able to cap one Frigate and sank another. Did anybody complained about ganking? No - everybody was thankfull for a chance to have a nice Frigate battle. So please stop whining about ganking. There are several problems with this game but it's definitely not the problem of ganking or crafting.. From my point of view it's the problem of game being too EASY and allowing players to reach admiral rank and being able to sail 1st rates without knowing how to sail them. After that they are getting "ganked" and start whining..

Pretty fast. What would I've done from Dutch perspective in current meta: 1. first cap a few NPC traders. Can be easily done with basic cutter. Can capp anything up to traders snow. Each capped trader currently nets you around 100k 2. build 5 fir forest in WS or mahogany in allied british Chirique. Each fine log you can sell minimum for 1k which is a lot. 3. Now you should level with missions till brig level - you can easily buy a basic brig for this. No one will bother to gank such low missions 4. ait till you can crew a frigate. Buy or craft surprise. Voila! Surprise is a basic ship for deep waters PVP. Capable of outrunning anyone and of catching almost anyone. 5 dura is a lot. 5 forests will net you steady income. 5. Profit! I estimate it will take around 3-4 weeks for completely new player and a week for an experienced player after wipe (cause he will have xp and crafting xp saved).

The second category will leave game anyway. The first category will stay. SOL restriction can be removed for PVE server, for example. Again, you will leave if it would require at least some efforts to build and man 1st rate. Actually with current crafting I think after wipe SOLs count will normalize. Currently everybody has stacked 1st rates from pre-patch times. But for me and many others game immersion means a lot. And seeing 10000 SOLs sailing around ruins game immersion for us. So many other people can leave because of that. So for devs it's really a question of which part of playerbase will leave :) But again, I think with current system after wipe the number of SOLs will be more realistic.

It's almost impossible to gank anyone who is not AFK sailing in this game, espacailly if you play for Danes, French of Swedish. They have very close harbors with enormous number of AI fleets. For other nations it's a bit more complex. But playing for Dutch for over a year I was successfully ganked ONCE during... afk sailing. Also, during real age of sail most ship battles were.. ganks.. Stupid suggestion over all.

Will upgrades and the slot system be reworked? It really looks silly when somehow one ship has slot for "steel toolbox" and another one doesn't. Cmon - it's just a tollbox - either there is free space in hold for it or not. Why does it need a special slot? Don't get me started on the Marines upgrade. Not craftable - obtained only through pure luck. Insanely OP. And actually - quite a magic thing converting your sailors into marines. If you have a magic slot in your ship for this magic thing. It's not some fantasy game about elfs. If you are planning to rework the sustem - rework all of it. Stupid upgrade slots somehow depending on the ships quality is the main reason people now want yellow ships. Not because of slightly better base stats, but because of magical 3-5 slots. Remove them, allow the same number of updates for all ships or better tie them to ship modules. Like you can place either copper plating or extra planking on your hull, but not both. Reinforced masts or extra sails, etc. Do this and you will see even the old colored system will work - people will decide a small increase in stat is not worse extra efforts. But any dependency of number of installable updates on the ships quality will in any case make people build only the best ships they can afford. Also introducing upgrades durability and allowing to capture ships from players with installed modules with 1 dura will be a great change! Now nobody wants captured one dura ships (even gold ones) cause everybody is afraid to lose upgrades. This will change situation - less people will be risking their gold upgrades even on full dura ship in OW. Gold upgrades will be saved for vital battles. More people will perform daily PVP ith lower quality upgrades.

This!. Seeing everyone, especially PVE casuals who never been in a PB or OW PVP battle sailing on Victories kills all game immersion for me. 1st and 2nd rates should be a rare sight. We should see more then 3-4 SOLs only in PBs. Most of the action in game should be done in Frigates as it were during real Age of Sail. As proposed long ago on PVP server sailing SOL should require captains commisions given for PVP points.

Then maybe what should go away is number of mods depending on ship quality. I will be perfectly OK with color system where quality only affects base stats but the number of upgrades is always 5-3(or 2-4 or even 1-1) for all ships of the same tier (1st rate can have more mods than 3rd rate).. The idea of tying number of upgrades to ship quality is the only bad (and unrealistic) thing in current crafting system. Whether I can place a toolbox in my ship depends on the quality of the ship not on the free space in the hull...

It's an alpha! For all we know wipes can happen 3 times a day! We are testing the game! Aren't you interested, for example for a brief moment to see the NA world without all these 2nd and 1st rates stokpiled and sailing everywhere! I remember so clearly an excitement I felt when I first saw a player 3rd rate in our fleet. There were times where hostility (if it would be implemented at that time) would be generated by Frigate Fleets and not by zerg rash of SOLs doing missions. The game has unrealistically huge amount of SOLs and nobody even cares about losing one. There is no correlation to skill. This kills all game immersion for me.

nobody forces you to craft them. But I would like to have such ships. You can sail normal ship and at the same time piece by piece collecting resource for an exceptional vessel which will be used for critical operations. It's good end-game purpose.

Wipes are perfectly OK and actually needed to test economy and crafting. Don't listen to people who can't understand such simple thing.

Such people will always be scared, Jon)

Still would like to have possbility for endgame to craft ship outstanding other ships from their class maybe from better wood or somehow else. It should be quite difficult (kinda like now with fine wood) and probably it shouldn't be color-coded - just change of parameters.. But don't like the idea of special ships availble ONLYfor special events, tournaments, etc. Make them hard to craft and give them as reward on all these events and tournaments, but still there SHOULD BE possibility for anyone to craft any ship in game. Otherwise it's just player discrimination.

gold means nothin in this game and can be easily generated particulary with current faulty trading system (a LOT of people claim to be able to make 1+ mil of revenue by one trading trip). Capture even an AI trader lynx will asily net you 100k+ gold. While fine woods are really limited and rare. I know a LOT of people (including me) who love the new system. It clearly achieves it's purposes. If implemented together with a wipe it will really make Carribean more interesting and fine place to sail in. Now almost everybody is sailing gold ships built before. But for example from lone wolf perspective now even for established lone player like me (4-5 various gold ships, couple mil gold in reserve, extended oupost network) I need about a week to produce gold Essex for example (will need 95 fine mahogany + 95 fine oak for that) and that is OK. Cause before patch there was no problem making 1 gold 4th rate per day. The single fact that a lot of carebears are frustrated by this change is a sign that it was a right change. Yes, casuals are unhappy. But casuals will be always unhappy without "I Win" button. Like they were unhappy when AI SOLs became uncapturable (also a great change). All I want now is a wipe, so I can really enjoy the Carribean without herds of gold 1st and 2nd rates making hostility missions and not care about whether they will lose their 1st rates. Why care, if everyone has spare one in reserve. The Frigate PVP outside daily small battle events is dead currently (not taking into account gankers on surprises/renommees - they rarely pick equal battle). All these changes are slowly bringing it back. Just see this about why gold is nothing in this game: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/17190-new-rescources/

Agree completely. Would also add some real time waiting till process of complete. Like 24 hour for one study session. Also additional studies should be required for crafting different traits (speed, build strength, etc). Would really force people to specialize in certain ship areas.