Thieves in nation

[KoTiKos]

What will you do with unfair players?

This is the main question.
To the story:
 I ask some guys (VpFalcon and Injuring Thunder from TRR clan EU 1 PVPserver) to craft me a ship ( Bellona exep), they agree, take all the resources and sent me to ignore list. I waited for a long time for answers, i write several letters through game e-mails - fully ignore.

Screenshots of conv:
VpFalcon   -   http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/305487667007010963/646489C70AA806210BAFA401898794490C3C1A00/
Injuring Thunder - http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/305487667007010763/42595BA82743712DAA567FDD38DC76682B2AEBF1/

[OlavDeng2]

Scamming happened during the age of sail and it is your responsibility not to get scammed, in the future i suggest you trade the resources at the same time as you get the ship.

[Capt Jubal Early]

Scamming happened during the age of sail and it is your responsibility not to get scammed, in the future i suggest you trade the resources at the same time as you get the ship.

Brutal.

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Brutal.

 

To be honest, how do you possibly enforce this without spending massive amounts of time that the Developers don't have reviewing logs, and who traded what to whom, etc.

 

Currently, I'm not aware of any rules against this.  DO NOT pay up front for anything to people you don't know and trust.

[Kutai]

Wow harsh. Dont even see this in the Pirate Nation.

[Mored]

Happens also in the pirate nation:

Insidious clan (that ones that was also reported because green on green) did that.

[Eldberg]

But you are pirates, no?

It was not uncommon for various groups of pirates to steal from one another. While the saying "There is no honour amongst thieves" comes to mind, which is the concept of "professional courtesy," that even the disreputable and unethical do - particularly among themselves - adhere to various sorts of moral codes of conduct. However this is an online game... People seem to be under the illusion that because they sit behind a mouse and keyboard they can get away with practically anything without any consequences.

I guess you have learned an unfortunate lesson here.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Stephen_Decatur

[MalakithSkadi]

Scamming happened during the age of sail and it is your responsibility not to get scammed, in the future i suggest you trade the resources at the same time as you get the ship.

 

Would be nice if there were enough trade slots for this to actually be a reality... sending raw resources the 12 slots would be sufficient but no crafter accepts unmade goods because they save their hours for actual ships not the sub-components.

[THEGOBBLER]

It's a very common way for ships to be built, most of the people I've built ships for chuck all the mats my way and it's on trust to receive a ship. If the trust is broken then it's harsh, but tough shit. Genuine ship crafters will want to preserve their reputations so normally doing this is fine.

 

Only thing with this particular one is no doubt that Bellona would've seen port battles, got a feeling we'll need all the fat ships we can get in the near future for PBs.

[OlavDeng2]

It's a very common way for ships to be built, most of the people I've built ships for chuck all the mats my way and it's on trust to receive a ship. If the trust is broken then it's harsh, but tough shit. Genuine ship crafters will want to preserve their reputations so normally doing this is fine.

 

Only thing with this particular one is no doubt that Bellona would've seen port battles, got a feeling we'll need all the fat ships we can get in the near future for PBs.

Personally how i opperate is that i craft the ship before the transaction, and then give the ship as they give me the most valuable of the resources + a fee, and then the less valuable ones on the trade later.

[IceShade]

Personally I don't think this is very nice - cheating a member of your own nation - especially when that person could have used a high quality high end ship for the numerous Port Battles the pirates throw at us, but it is perfectly legal within the confines of the game.

 

It does hurt reputation, though. Perhaps of only those involved, perhaps the clan involved, or perhaps the trust people have for crafters in general. Shrug.

 

Bad for business, tbh.

 

It all comes down to trust at the moment.

[Long Beard]

Really this comes down to whether it's against the game TOC.  In most MMO's I've played scamming is against the TOC. In Eve-Online however it's allowed.  Clarification needed me thinks.

[Jacob van Heemskerck]

Really this comes down to whether it's against the game TOC.  In most MMO's I've played scamming is against the TOC. In Eve-Online however it's allowed.  Clarification needed me thinks.

Thats fair enough, but i'm sure people are going to exploit this when it's allowed!

Imo, it must be against the rules, it is usually people from your own nation who do this, and you can't do anything against it (green on green for a example). So it leaves him with nothing then distrust and grief, and potential bad player behavior because of that.

And if whe are going to talk "in the age of sail" i'm sure with the proper provided evidence, you would facing the gallows of stealing resources/materials for crafting a ship of that magnitude.

It only encourage, toxic and bad player behavior. And imo it should be picked up into tribunal cases!

And if the devs have not enough time (wich sound very logical to me), maybe they should hire Judges, instead of more forum moderators in the future?

And henry desterre darby is right "Do not pay up front". until these things are going to be picked up her in tribunal.

But the OP has learned it the hard way, it's a pity that whe have those players playing naval action.

But thats life in a hold full of fresh coconuts you always have a couple rotten ones.

[Quineloe]

Scamming happened during the age of sail and it is your responsibility not to get scammed, in the future i suggest you trade the resources at the same time as you get the ship.

Absolutely not in line with you punishing players for far less serious offenses. If a person were to commit fraud on this scale back then, he'd face a trial and be ruined as a person.

 

Realism please.

 

 

 

Personally how i opperate is that i craft the ship before the transaction, and then give the ship as they give me the most valuable of the resources + a fee, and then the less valuable ones on the trade later.

It's nice that this works for you and your super deep pockets. Many crafters don't have complete sets ready to go.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Quineloe

[Justme]

Wow harsh. Dont even see this in the Pirate Nation.

This is the Econ player way, that's why they push so much for one duras so they can scam everyone but their friends.

[Konali89]

Scamming is distastefull, but like some guys said, options to fight it are limited. If we want the devs to intervene it might waste time, we could have used in developping.

 

Maybe we can create something as a community. A so called Black List. Once you are on there you cant be trusted. Just thinking out loud here. But scamming is distastefull imo.

[Quineloe]

Scamming is distastefull, but like some guys said, options to fight it are limited. If we want the devs to intervene it might waste time, we could have used in developping.

 

Maybe we can create something as a community. A so called Black List. Once you are on there you cant be trusted. Just thinking out loud here. But scamming is distastefull imo.

 

The Naval Action Labour Fallacy.

Time spent crafting planks is wasted on not crafting ships

 

You can use people who don't know how to code anything to investigate and punish ingame scams. That way, no development time is lost.

[OlavDeng2]

The Naval Action Labour Fallacy.

Time spent crafting planks is wasted on not crafting ships

 

You can use people who don't know how to code anything to investigate and punish ingame scams. That way, no development time is lost.

Those people are used for ship models and such... we are talking about a small company, every person wasted on watching reports is stopped from using his valuable time developing the game in one way or another.

[Quineloe]

I'm pretty sure there will be very few reports of scams on this scale if you start punishing people.

Why do you punish crossteamers, damage farmers or other exploiters? That also costs resources. It's such a non-argument

[OlavDeng2]

I'm pretty sure there will be very few reports of scams on this scale if you start punishing people.

Why do you punish crossteamers, damage farmers or other exploiters? That also costs resources. It's such a non-argument

scamming could be seen as something which is allowed, part of the economy. Damage farmers and exploiters are something different entirely

[Quineloe]

ok, assuming we're here, in 18th century society. Someone receives the payment for a certain, very expensive delivery, then fails to deliver  and refuses all contact?

 

I mean, realism is the reason we punish many things here that are a-ok in other online games. Especially since you have _no_ recourse since green on green damage is banned.

 

How about making it a poll?

[DEK]

How about crafting system like in LineAge 2 - "Man in the middle" ? Need add 3rd type of contracts - "Craft contract". Crafter can place contract to craft ship or materials for his Labour Hours and for his price, but using u'r recources. You take ship, not crafter, and you just pay for his labour hours.

 

 

P.s. Sry sry sry, for bad english

Edited February 29, 2016 by DEK

[playeraltf4]

Scamming happened during the age of sail and it is your responsibility not to get scammed, in the future i suggest you trade the resources at the same time as you get the ship.

 

Since this is coming from a moderator/staff member, does that mean scamming players in the game is 100% okay and there will be no administrative repercussions  taken against scammers? I just want some clarification for...reasons.

[Konali89]

Since this is coming from a moderator/staff member, does that mean scamming players in the game is 100% okay and there will be no administrative repercussions  taken against scammers? I just want some clarification for...reasons.

Check the 4th post on the first page made by henry.

For as far we moderators know, there are no rules for scamming yet.

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Since this is coming from a moderator/staff member, does that mean scamming players in the game is 100% okay and there will be no administrative repercussions  taken against scammers? I just want some clarification for...reasons.

 

At the moment, we don't know if this is ok or not.  The two instances I've been made aware of both happened while Admin has been out with the flu.  I don't know if he'll want to throw the book at people or allow it, so for now I'd say you should probably not try to make a living as a scammer, unless you don't mind a potential asset and experience reset.  Until Admin weighs in, either is a possibility.