385 crew La Requin

[Bluetooth]

2 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

Really? What has been so substantial?

@Old Crusty because you don't sail the Requin I will list the changes to the Requin since its release for you.

I bought it. I sail it. I am an unashamed self confessed low life pirate ganker. (Although I do not believe there is such a thing as ganking in N.A.. seperate topic)😁

Wind profile changed resulting in more specialized ship use. Loss in down wind speed.

Crew casualties increased. The Requin now loses casualties correctly.

BR doubled. (This is a big positive for PBs.) And better AI reinforcements. At least they all seem to be rear admiral rank now. (I think rank is taken into account with AI BR. @admin)

Sails and masts take damage like they should or seem to. (Effect could be improved).

The mod that gave bonus with no negative to Requin (Pirate Rig) has been reduce by 1/3. (No more heavy builds reaching 15.5 knts without seriously super mods. Well beyond normal players anyway.)

These are very real in game changes. If you sail the Requin these are big changes.

This game has been around for 3 years and we have had many changes that were forum driven by incessant calls for this and that by players who felt that they were right. this has led to big mistakes in the past and @admin has clearly stated on here recently that no changes will be made in haste. This I believe is the correct way to go.

I know that you personally do not like the Requin but I personally do like it especially from a pirate role playing point of view. 

So we must both wait and see where she will eventually settle but we must be honest when we post.  

There is too much (THE TROLLQUIN IS OP! KILLING THE GAME! BROKEN SHIP ...etc etc) which helps no one.

Facts vs Myth is the way to proceed.

Fact = she had 250 crew.

Myth = she has 385 crew.

Mods make a difference but then they effect all ships.

Builds make a difference but then they effect all ships.

I would also point out that the use of the Requin seems to me at least to have dramatically dropped and in game chat now seems to show players on both sides of the argument feel the Requin is actually not that good. I look forward to the data that @admin will release on its use and  ability in game.

Although we may feel that we are correct, sometimes we are not and I believe that the dev's are right to proceed carefully, rather than listen to knee-jerk insta-change reaction that the forum tends to throw up.

Been there before.....many times.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Crow
Spell fu&$ing checker.

[Old Crusty]

1 hour ago, Crow said:

 

 

You seem to be having  trouble distinguishing fact from opinion. Lucky for you I am here to help out.

1 hour ago, Crow said:

@Old Crusty because you don't sail the Requin I will list the changes to the Requin since its release for you

I of course got the same free Le Requin as everyone else. I sailed it and found it to be way out of line with ship balance and knew that it would be a game killer.

 

1 hour ago, Crow said:

Wind profile changed resulting in more specialized ship use. Loss in down wind speed

Minor change, not a substantial change.

 

1 hour ago, Crow said:

Crew casualties increased. The Requin now loses casualties correctly.

Really??? Your argument here is: the ship was developed to not take crew casualties and now, just like every other ship in the game it takes crew casualties. That is not a nerf. That fixes a design flaw.

 

1 hour ago, Crow said:

Sails and masts take damage like they should or seem to. (Effect could be improved).

The mod that gave bonus with no negative to Requin (Pirate Rig) has been reduce by 1/3.

 

Sails take damage? Again just like every other ship in the game. Not a Nerf but a fix to a design flaw.

The mod is not a nerf to Le Requin. It affects all ships so does not make the Le Requin any worse compared to other ships.

1 hour ago, Crow said:

know that you personally do not like the Requin but I personally do like it especially from a pirate role playing point of view

My criticism of Le Requin has nothing to do with like or dislike and everything to do with the ship is the definition of P2W and is horrible for the health of the game.

1 hour ago, Crow said:

Facts vs Myth is the way to proceed.

Fact = she had 250 crew

There are sources that put the crew at 220. We can never know the Facts until the original log books are found and the numbers are found within. The choice of the source to use for crew obviously went to 250. The reason for that of course is that having 250 crew will sell more ships than if it only had 220 crew.

now let’s look at the facts on how it affects the game.

FACT there is no other ship that can be crafted that can beat the Le Requin one on one in the shallow water. Without mods the Le Requin can push any other 6th rate and force a board. Any other base 6th rate even using determined defender cannot prevent a board. In the shallow water the only ship the Le Requin must be Leary If is the Hercules, another DLC ship.

FACT In the deep water there are plenty of ships that can defeat the Le Requin but not a single one that you can craft that can catch it ( and defeat it) if the Le Requin wants to run.

FACT Le Requin is pay to win.

FACT Le Requin destroys game balance in shallow water.

FACT Le Requin is very bad for the health of this game.

I hope that helps.😄

Edited September 6, 2018 by Old Crusty

[Hethwill]

I did pay and still haven't won... wth is happening here... 😞

[Bluetooth]

13 minutes ago, Old Crusty said:

ou seem to be having  trouble distinguishing fact from opinion. Lucky for you I am here to help out.

Unfortunately you seem to be a very angry man.

Try not to get so emotional. N.A. will change many times and not always the way you want.

In your eager attempt to continue with your hatred of the ship you failed to to read the first line. I said 'changes' to the ship.

My advice as a long term tester of this game is to expect many things you disagree with to com and go and also to stay.

[Jack Jones]

30 minutes ago, Old Crusty said:

There are sources that put the crew at 220

You source for this is a model making site. Lol.

@Old Crusty you been here 5 mins and man do you have opinions on everything!

Chill out dude.

[Angus MacDuff]

25 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

It is bigger than a pickle.

That's what she said.... (Could. Not. Resist.)

[Licinio Chiavari]

2 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

...

Dear Mate,

would you really compare your experience with Requin (pre and post nerf(-s) with Crow's one? with Huliotkd's one? with my one?
I think I'm sitting on 100-200 COMBAT (no, not OW AFK sailing) hours on Requin, pushed her well beyond her limits in combat, with a dozen of different set ups. You sailed ONE (BTW: which wood? trim? mods? really: what's your combat experience on her? against what?); one. How long? how many times?

Am I the same Requin user of 3 months ago? No. Definately far better now. Experience matters in this game. More then so called "skill" (in the end this game is quite slow paced - thinking to FPS for example - so experience matters. A lot). Every ship require a sensitivity to her handling. Every ship is different. Every correction can be felt. Like CLEARLY in above noted case.

The fact you dont understand her weaknesses (she has quite a lot) doenst mean she has none. Then.

1. I have still to remember a "metaship" getting so fast and hard nerfed in this game. How long we had to be chain-killed by SuperWasas? No: it was not matter of a couple months.

2. As repeatly stated: 90% of requin "super" perfomances were (and are) MOD: mainly Pirate Rig Refit (and Elite one). Finally Devs moved in the right direction: NERFING the mod more than the ship.

3. Requins high crew numbers, as stated 1000+1 times, comes from mods+books and being 6th rate, not 5th. AGAIN a MOD+BOOK issue. Not of the ship herself.
We can hope with the rework with modding system we'll get a more balanced game. As a sidenote: get rid of the magic of Determined Defender Perk and you'll see far less overcrewed Requins (do you really think without DD crap someone would use "crew space" as Requin planking?). Then... better to get a decent idea on how to handle a Boarding battle. 90% (even veterans) players has ZERO idea... and now defending is WAY simpler than only 1 year ago.

4. Why in the hell I have ZERO fear being attacked by a single Requin? Simply because I know pretty well what he'll (try to) do.

Now some "debunking" of your "FACTS".

 

2 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

FACT there is no other ship that can be crafted that can beat the Le Requin one on one in the shallow water. Without mods the Le Requin can push any other 6th rate and force a board. Any other base 6th rate even using determined defender cannot prevent a board. In the shallow water the only ship the Le Requin must be Leary If is the Hercules, another DLC ship.

AFAIK Hercules can enter Shallow Water.
That the ship is crafted or not is not a balancing issue. A ship should be balanced. Period.

I do remember Wasas got only of PvP marks. Should them be stronger or crappier? THEY SHOULD BE BALANCED. Period.

More interesting: a requin can push into the wind any 6th rate (nothing strange granted her dimentions: did you notice her lenght is similar to Surprise one?); true.
BUT if you get boarded... it's your fault: any 6th rate can tack into the wind keeping her speed over 4 kts; even better being pushed. So if you get pushed and you dont tack (or go backward) on the other side, it's your fault, not OPness of Requin.

And this, AGAIN, not speaking about downwind speed (and especially running with the wind) speed of Requin and any other 6th (yes: even a loaded trader brig).
Even pre-nerf(-s) Requin had a crappy 180° on wind speed (I'm speaking about less than 10kts)... BUT she was able (with Elite Pirate) to be speed capped at broad reach: so she was able to surpass the ship and then TRYING (if the dumb brig keeps going straight) to catch the brig on the downwind side.
After rebalance... this is no more possible. Period.

Again: if brig captain is not smart... or experienced, he'll die fast. As he'll die even if attacked by a veteran on a cutter.

Do you think it's by chance that majority of Requin users consider 6th rates a pain to hunt far more than bigger ships?

2 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

FACT In the deep water there are plenty of ships that can defeat the Le Requin but not a single one that you can craft that can catch it ( and defeat it) if the Le Requin wants to run.

There's no ship (5th+) that a Requin can realistically damage side to side.
So why not working Requin sails? They are VERY FRAIL (I'd like to remember losing 77% sails - from 100 to 23% - in ONE Essex broadside. ONE. And it was BEFORE noted patches).
Rebalancing her and sail force mod... makes her losing speed quite fast now.

As there's not 5th+ ship a Requin can catch downwind (again).
Honestly... it's plenty of purposely fitted ships that cant be catched or defetead if not by other purposely built ships and/or teams - so?
Should I raid on a slow ship? No. Would you raid on a slow ship? No. Missing so the point.

2 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

FACT Le Requin is pay to win.

Old stinky mantra. Only because I paid 10 euros she's P2W.
Dont tell us you (as I bet 95%+ of NA players) cant afford onetime 10 euros.

This makes me thinking that's Requin is FAR MORE DEMOCRATIC than some other meta-ship overmodded and RNG trimmed.
In reality: who cant afford onetime 10 euros... and to spend (in game) 400.000ish golds (for Pirate Refit) and sail around on a decent Requin?
On the contrary: who can afford to spend ingame 10-20+ mil to get a Gold 5/5 very fast [put your preferred - Bellona? - Trinco?] and then spend another 10-20+ mil ingame to over mod the ship? And especially: who can afford to lose such a ship? FAR FAAAR less people.

The above noted decent Requin is for all, even the last of the casuals (like Hercules is... and Hercules is far more OP, in the right hands, than the Requin).
Above noted super Trinco/Bellona/whatever is for the pinnacle of rich veterans.

2 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

FACT Le Requin destroys game balance in shallow water.

True. I stated immediately (as majority of Requin users) to ban her from Shallow PBs. And the BR rebalance worked in the proper direction. Two Niagaras for one Requin is a nice balance.
About balance in Shallow Waters... are you kidding? I'd like to remember you that HERCULES (yes, the DLC that in good hands SINKS 1st rates 1v1 and it's almost uncatchable by majority of other frigs if properly fitted) CAN ENTER SHALLOWS.

Ahhh... right! Hercules is square rigged. So she's more balanced than the lateen rigged Requin by definition. Right?

2 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

FACT Le Requin is very bad for the health of this game.

Are you sure?
I do remember 2 Bellonas totally dead meat at the time of Wasa Stardestroyers.
No requin group (if not very big or with heavier ship support) will dare to attack 2 Bellonas sticking together. Because they'll sink.

Honestly. Seeing all the pain of "Old Rich PvPer Veteran Aristocracy" crying about being unable to sail (99.9% as in the past) safely their shiny super modded ships due to the "Sharks", make me thinking exactly the contrary.

And if thanks Requins brutally camping Reinforcements area we'll get rid of them getting only a Rookie no PvP starting area, it'll be one of the best step in this game development.

About "(un-)safe zones" I'd like to remember you that a bunch of us leveled, farmed, and learned the game (being also chain-ganked - there were not "recently killed") WITHOUT them.

When I started playing... there were not even the forts: you could be ganked at 1 yard from the pier of your country port. And a lot captains lived (decently) with than. May be staying well afar from most busy places, in place of sticking all together in one place... letting know the "Sharks" where to go to find plenty preys.

Surely, for the first time ever (probably) thanks to the (ab-)use of broken mods letting a ship (Requin) being OP we GOT A NERF TO THE MODS. A titan step from the past.
And with the incoming rework of all mods/book, even better.

2 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

I hope that helps.

I hope the above helped.

Sincerely: whine less, sail Requin more. The better you'll know her, the less you'll fear her.

 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari

[jodgi]

2 hours ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

I did pay and still haven't won... wth is happening here... 😞

Lol, I paid and still haven't used (for PvP).

[Aster]

The main use of the requin I have seen thus far is to camp the reinforce zone with impunity. As the reinforcements that get called are fairly useless 6th rates and if actual threats show up the ship just runs away and is uncatchable as it is speed capped easily. Now the camping of reinforce zones is nothing new but the requin excels at it to a disgusting level. Just check combat news really at any time and you will see the same group of Spanish killing every brit outside KPR every day. I personally will kill around 6 brits an hour with the requin and there is almost nothing they can do about it.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Aster said:

same group of Spanish killing every brit outside KPR every day. I personally will kill around 6 brits an hour with the requin and there is almost nothing they can do about it.

Developers may have to consider limiting battles by rank to stop your kind.

So a Rear Admiral can’t attack a Midshipman.

+1 -1 rank limit would work best and support new players and players climbing the ranks. I would start playing PvP if such a system was in place (even with risk/lost methodology), would be convenient for reinforcement zone too, as it stands.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Guest

[Aster]

Limit by rank will have little effect many of the players killed are max rank. Also rank is really not a good indicator of pvp skill.

[Licinio Chiavari]

57 minutes ago, Aster said:

The main use of the requin I have seen thus far is to camp the reinforce zone with impunity.

What you do too. Right. Even with coming back with a second requin in 10 minutes after losing the first, yesterday.
Dont try to look moralistic.

57 minutes ago, Aster said:

As the reinforcements that get called are fairly useless 6th rates

Fairly useless... if the prey kindly go upwind and so they fall back. As usual experience/smartness (or lack thereof) issue.
Reinf AIs are damn buffed. To the point we are avoiding to join more than 3 usually. Because if 4+ super buffed 6th end up focussing one Requin will dismantle her in a matter of seconds.
Not a lot practice vs. Reinforcement AIs, right? I remember an AI Frig running 15+ kts behind an Hercules + Requin (me), just to give an idea of buffing level.

57 minutes ago, Aster said:

if actual threats show up the ship just runs away and is uncatchable as it is speed capped easily

Define "actual threats". And uncatchable... by Bellonas, surely. As usual matters WHAT is used to catch WHAT. Would you use a 12-gauge to kill a bee?

57 minutes ago, Aster said:

Now the camping of reinforce zones is nothing new but the requin excels at it to a disgusting level.

The disgusting level comes out only different (not more difficult) way to counter her. Otherwise, she can be easily countered.
PS: again. No moralism.

57 minutes ago, Aster said:

Just check combat news really at any time and you will see the same group of Spanish killing every brit outside KPR every day.

French never camped some place. Yes: we are the (only) bad guys.

57 minutes ago, Aster said:

I personally will kill around 6 brits an hour with the requin and there is almost nothing they can do about it.

Do it.

57 minutes ago, Aster said:

there is almost nothing they can do about it.

Surely keeping joining on 5th+ rates DOWNWIND will not help.

43 minutes ago, BuckleUpBones said:

Developers may have to consider limiting battles by rank to stop your kind.

So a Rear Admiral can’t attack a Midshipman.

+1 -1 rank limit would work best and support new players and players climbing the ranks. I would start playing PvP if such a system was in place (even with risk/lost methodology), would be convenient for reinforcement zone too, as it stands.

You'll make trading alts pretty happy. Just in case having a bunch of trading alts is not already exploiting.
And to not remember that could be nice having 4000+ ingame experience, then reroll a new toon... and able to be harassed only by true newbies. Right?

No mate: you'd support Alt industry that way.

Starting Neutral No-PvP zone for all. Then when the newbie leave it (sooner or later, more his choise than a timed schedule) Free for All.

Sidenote: 99% our victims are... in the 2-3 top ranks.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari

[Licinio Chiavari]

6 minutes ago, Aster said:

Limit by rank will have little effect many of the players killed are max rank. Also rank is really not a good indicator of pvp skill.

True. And true: not an indicator at all.

Still PvP skill shouldnt matter being or not a "target": should be more "moral availability".
IMO obtainable with: as you choose a PvP server (this) AND you leave the neutral No-PvP zone, you consider yourself ready to kill or be killed. 

[Aster]

A speed capped ship is nearly uncatchable due to it being well max speed nothing can run it down. Also when the game has reached the point where nations can not leave their capitol area because they will be murdered the second the leave, (THERE IS A PROBLEM). Now we can argue over what that problem is but there clearly is one.

[Guest]

Vets are swarming and flustering!  

[Aster]

51 minutes ago, BuckleUpBones said:

Developers may have to consider limiting battles by rank to stop your kind.

So a Rear Admiral can’t attack a Midshipman.

+1 -1 rank limit would work best and support new players and players climbing the ranks. I would start playing PvP if such a system was in place (even with risk/lost methodology), would be convenient for reinforcement zone too, as it stands.

And your kind is the 90% of the player population that is food I assume.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Aster said:

And your kind is the 90% of the player population that is food I assume.

Why are you guy’s so opposed to new players!

24 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Just in case having a bunch of trading alts is not already exploiting.

Alts aren't in the spirited of game either.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Guest

[Aster]

Just now, BuckleUpBones said:

Why are you guy’s so opposed to new players!

I am not. I love food actually.

[Sir Loorkon]

Lucinio, you need a very low PvP skill to kill beginners in a reenforcementzone with a le Req. If that is your fun, well continue to lower our playerbase. I can not understand why that broken mechanics (6th rate le Req. can use light ship hammocks, has far more crew than any other shallow ship and gives defender only useless 6th rate reinforcements) where not fixed asap. I havent got the time to write or read books on this topic but I think a lot of very experianced players have said enough to this. I am looking forward to a solution.

[Licinio Chiavari]

2 hours ago, Sir Loorkon said:

Lucinio, you need a very low PvP skill to kill beginners in a reenforcementzone with a le Req. If that is your fun, well continue to lower our playerbase. I can not understand why that broken mechanics (6th rate le Req. can use light ship hammocks, has far more crew than any other shallow ship and gives defender only useless 6th rate reinforcements) where not fixed asap. I havent got the time to write or read books on this topic but I think a lot of very experianced players have said enough to this. I am looking forward to a solution.

I suspect you didnt read a word in last posts. Nor my previous ones.

I repeated too that the fastest and easiest way to balace overcrewed Requin is moving her (back) to 5th rates. Missed the N-times I wrote it?

Do you really think I kill only/mainly "beginners"? Do you really think there are so many beginners to be able to farm hundreds of marks only of newbies on navy brigs?? are we playing the same game?
Rear Admirals are "beginners"?
Commodores? Commodores on Wasa? Definition please.

As I stated almost totality of my (our) preys are in the top 2-3 ranks.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari

[Licinio Chiavari]

22 minutes ago, Aster said:

A speed capped ship is nearly uncatchable due to it being well max speed nothing can run it down. Also when the game has reached the point where nations can not leave their capitol area because they will be murdered the second the leave, (THERE IS A PROBLEM). Now we can argue over what that problem is but there clearly is one.

I am pretty sure nothing ban a player to sail a Cutter out of KPR to a god forgotten place... open an OP. Then move there his ships... then farming quietly there.

The problem ARE the safezones: all stay there (due to no need to leave them) and there all hunters come.

[Sir Loorkon]

Yes Rear Admirals are possibly beginners, because that is a PvE rank. But anyway, do what you want. 

[StaleMemes]

19 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

I am pretty sure nothing ban a player to sail a Cutter out of KPR to a god forgotten place... open an OP. Then move there his ships... then farming quietly there.

The problem ARE the safezones: all stay there (due to no need to leave them) and there all hunters come.

Of course, if I'm grinding PVE I never do it in the safe zone, it is the single most dangerous place to do PvE on the entire map except maybe the patrol zone. The problem is why on earth would some scrub who doesn't know the game very well think to leave the "safe" zone? If its supposed to be the pve death trap zone of lurking death, why not tell new players?

When a person who has played the game for less than a month is sank in the reinforcement zone they aren't going to think "huh, maybe I should leave the safe zone and find a different spot" they are going to think "holy hello kittying shit, if I can't survive in the 'safe' zone i'll get slaughtered in the unsafe zone!"

[Old Crusty]

5 hours ago, Crow said:

Unfortunately you seem to be a very angry man.

Try not to get so emotional. N.A. will change many times and not always the way you want.

In your eager attempt to continue with your hatred of the ship you failed to to read the first line. I said 'changes' to the ship.

My advice as a long term tester of this game is to expect many things you disagree with to com and go and also to stay.

So I have read my post several times that you are referring to and cannot see where or why you would say that I am angry. I took a point that you made and destroyed them. Like this:

14 hours ago, Crow said:

The ship has been substantially nerfed since testing

Then you said:

5 hours ago, Crow said:

n your eager attempt to continue with your hatred of the ship you failed to to read the first line. I said 'changes' to the ship.

I did not fail, you did.

as far as being angry, no. My arguments are well reasoned and correct. I just happen to like game balance and this ship upsets the balance of the game. Your only answer is that I am angry and I hate. Very sad.

[Licinio Chiavari]

33 minutes ago, Capt Aerobane said:

Of course, if I'm grinding PVE I never do it in the safe zone, it is the single most dangerous place to do PvE on the entire map except maybe the patrol zone. The problem is why on earth would some scrub who doesn't know the game very well think to leave the "safe" zone? If its supposed to be the pve death trap zone of lurking death, why not tell new players?

When a person who has played the game for less than a month is sank in the reinforcement zone they aren't going to think "huh, maybe I should leave the safe zone and find a different spot" they are going to think "holy hello kittying shit, if I can't survive in the 'safe' zone i'll get slaughtered in the unsafe zone!"

Yes and nay.

Cancelling (not-)safezones will make people consider all the map.

Secondly. It has been repeated daily both on forums and in game that Capitol areas are the most dangerous.