385 crew La Requin

[Old Crusty]

3 hours ago, Farrago said:

Their bodies aren’t what’s heavy... it’s all the provisions, weapons, gear, fresh water, etc that are onboard for each crew member. 

Average sailor weighs let’s say 150 pounds. 10 sailors weigh 1,500 pounds. 100 sailors weigh 15,000 pounds. That Le Requin with 385 crew? That is 57,750 pounds. The Sailors definitely add a massive amount of weight to a ship. Then add the provisions. I’m guessing but with food and water alone I imagine that each man has is weight in provisions.

   Just because a sailor dies done not mean that he disappears. His full weight is still on the ship unless he was somehow knocked overboard as he died.

 

[Hethwill]

There's no logistics in game at that level. It is a no factor.

[Old Crusty]

Just now, Hethwill the Harmless said:

There's no logistics in game at that level. It is a no factor.

Isn’t that a problem, especially with a 6th rate with 385 crew?

[Hethwill]

Yes. But not bringing that logistical reasoning.

with 385 crew laying rough i'd say you barely have space to man the gun carriages properly...

but hey  who needs the guns. Most of the notable actions by xebec raiders were, indeed, "rageboards" and not gunnery duels.

[Old Crusty]

17 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

Yes. But not bringing that logistical reasoning.

with 385 crew laying rough i'd say you barely have space to man the gun carriages properly...

but hey  who needs the guns. Most of the notable actions by xebec raiders were, indeed, "rageboards" and not gunnery duels.

Now we are getting somewhere. What we have in game is not just any Xebec, it is the French Le Requin. It was not set up for rage boarding. It had a crew compliment of 220 sailors.

If we keep justifying the horribly over crewed ship by saying, other Xebecs had 500 crew, then I want 450 crew on my Surprise because other Frigates had 450 crew. 

[Licinio Chiavari]

28 minutes ago, Old Crusty said:

Now we are getting somewhere. What we have in game is not just any Xebec, it is the French Le Requin. It was not set up for rage boarding. It had a crew compliment of 220 sailors.

If we keep justifying the horribly over crewed ship by saying, other Xebecs had 500 crew, then I want 450 crew on my Surprise because other Frigates had 450 crew. 

Are you asking for a couple more xebecs added to the game? 😁

Not a so bad idea in the end. Being the new couple craftable.

PS: personally 90% times (as @huliotkd) we sail 287-300 crew Requins.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari
PS

[Bluetooth]

25 minutes ago, Old Crusty said:

we keep justifying the horribly over crewed ship by saying, other Xebecs had 500 crew, then I want 450 crew on my Surprise because other Frigates had 450 crew. 

Yeah Im with @Old Crusty there. A new DLC 450 crew surprise. Nice one. 👍👍😁

[Hethwill]

1 hour ago, Old Crusty said:

220 sailors.

245 + 5 officers.

But justifying a wrong with another wrong makes no sense. 450 sailors in a cruise frigate ... ? ...why... ?

Sorry if i overstep your judgement. I just pointed the reasons are not coherent but driven of a deep dislike of that particular ship and what she can do.

I mean, we can overcrew a lot of ships. Put Fusiliers on british ships or irish mercenaries on the french ships... sure we can. Why not ?

But then, sir, what is the purpose to do that if not recreating the purpose they had in reality ? ... 

Totally agree, the very cramped affects the xebec a lot, as much as it affects a Victory. Hammocks, sure. Light ship hammocks - bang.

You see... everything you find useful for one ship, is also useful for all other ships in the game. Whether you like the ship, or not.

So, again, sorry. But, much to my slight disappointement, we have no nightmare logistics. We can sail for a 100 days at sea without problems feedin a crew of 385. No one will get sick even.

But the same happens to all ships. 40 crew ones, and a 1400 crew one ( my my what have i done with my ship of the line... might name her titanic ! ). There's no logistics. Costs the same for me to put my schooner in the water for a cruise as much as it costs you to put a heavy frigate.

And damn sir, i find that very very hard to believe it was possible...

---

Don't take me harsh friend we all play the same game and believe me when i say i am the first wanting this as credible as possible, but have to live with the devs designs until they are changed. 

Hope we can see a more accurate portrayal of realism in the future. For the sake of those who want it, at the expense of those who don't want it.

See what i did there ?

Snappy salute.

[Old Crusty]

Here is the information I found on the Le Requin. 220 crew.

http://www.modelships.de/Le-Requin_III/Le-Requin_III_eng.htm

 

 

But justifying a wrong with another wrong makes no sense. 450 sailors in a cruise frigate ... ? ...why... ?

I don’t!!!! Just using that as an example of how bad it is to justify over crewing Le Requin 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Old Crusty

[Teutonic]

I've said it before any many others have as well.

Move the requin to a 5th rate class and the majority of the complaints get fixed due to how 5th rate mods/books have lower bonuses than 6th rate ones.

I'd add to lower the requin's thickness. But past that i can't see anything else.

If it stays a 6th rate, then the problem is the bonuses from books and mods.

[Sir Texas Sir]

12 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

Now we are getting somewhere. What we have in game is not just any Xebec, it is the French Le Requin. It was not set up for rage boarding. It had a crew compliment of 220 sailors.

If we keep justifying the horribly over crewed ship by saying, other Xebecs had 500 crew, then I want 450 crew on my Surprise because other Frigates had 450 crew. 

Those other xebecs where also way bigger than this one and had short distance back to home port so didn’t carry a lot of supplies and over stacked the crew for raiding.  Much like other pirates did.  The one in game was made to be slick and fast to catch raiders.  Remember you didn’t have to board that ship just sink it or take it out of commission.

im wondering if crew stacks need more penalty tha. Just the -15 moral for hammocks and crew space build.  That is 30 to moral but I didn’t see his moral any where close to that low.  5 rings only gives you 6 right?  What else they using.  With lower moral they should be more effective to boarding if they take a big hit.

[DeRuyter]

22 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

Here is the information I found on the Le Requin. 220 crew.

http://www.modelships.de/Le-Requin_III/Le-Requin_III_eng.htm

 

 

But justifying a wrong with another wrong makes no sense. 450 sailors in a cruise frigate ... ? ...why... ?

I don’t!!!! Just using that as an example of how bad it is to justify over crewing Le Requin 

Just an FYI - Here is some research on Le Requin from a shipyard post giving the 245 number. AFAIK the French sources give this number and Three Decks gives 240 + 5 officers.

Bottom line though, you are right she was a French national ship built to counter the "rageboarding" Algerian xebecs stuffed with crew. 

 

[Tomasso il Fortunato]

On 9/3/2018 at 5:02 PM, Tiedemann said:

Give crew weight! xD

In this case they should add water and food necessary to survive. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by CaptainSparckles

[Guest]

On 9/3/2018 at 5:02 PM, Tiedemann said:

Give crew weight! xD

I'd second that idea!

[AeRoTR]

I do agree give crew "weight" 

It is already in the game. You can not take lots of repairs in a ship, cause you will lose speed. 

Base speed with base crew. 

Lose speed with crew number over base crew number. 

Le Req 250 crew (still too much for 6th rate should be max 175-200 for balance sake, still too many compared to other 6ths)

So if you have 350 crew, +100 crew x 150 kgs. = 15 tons of penalty. It is like having extra repairs, speed should fall. 

If Le Req should stay 6th rate, crew should be 175, not willingly 200 maximum, still compared to most crowded 6th niagra, 30-45 more crew which %45 more. 

If crew stays 250 this ship must be a 5th rate. A bit more balanced due to books and mods. 

Otherwise, it is gamebreaking, it is bullshit. 

[admin]

23 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

Here is the information I found on the Le Requin. 220 crew.

http://www.modelships.de/Le-Requin_III/Le-Requin_III_eng.htm

 

 

But justifying a wrong with another wrong makes no sense. 450 sailors in a cruise frigate ... ? ...why... ?

I don’t!!!! Just using that as an example of how bad it is to justify over crewing Le Requin 

we will move hammocks upgrade from % to actual beds. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

I think there needs to be something more than a moral hit for the crew stack.  Limit crew stacking to 30% would be one thing and I think for each mod you should get a crew debuff to grape, which might be counter with certain mods that protect from crew damage.  

Makes me wonder if any one I tired to grape had 5 rings as it gives protection from such and htat could be why it seems i wasn't doing much damage.  I'm pull 12's all week so I'm not going to be on much, but if I get some free time over the weekend I"ll test crew damage out.  Figure green on green in a test would still show crew damage from grapping. 

Oh and more great stacking of Requins....a lot of those players that where boreded and didn't have Requin on the US side don't have the DLC content and won't be doing any port battles from now on cause they don't think they should buy a ship to fight Port battles.   I wasn't here but man that is a a lot of capture dships and notice they are all none Requin ships other than one?  I assume instant board and killed.

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 minute ago, admin said:

we will move hammocks upgrade from % to actual beds. 

maybe just put a 30% cap on it like you have with other mods.  Right now Shallow ships can get up to 55% more crew with all the mods, knowledge and wood types.   With the ship having 100 more crew than any other shallow ship it makes it OP with out the crew mods as Niagara can only get 232 crew.  Just make the ship a 5th rate like every one is asking and maybe put a 30% crew stack limit for now until the new mod system is put into game.

[Sir Malachy Karrde]

On 9/3/2018 at 9:37 AM, Licinio Chiavari said:

Real maximum is 388 (250 + 20% hammocks book + 10% Very Cramped trim + 10% Crew space wood + 15% light hammocks perm = 250 x1.55 = 387.5 rounded 388).

Didnt I repeat every chance that's majority of balancing issues are mod/trimming/RNG related and only secondly the ships?

That said, such a ship is pretty crap: she'll be dead slow running with the wind and really slow in anycase in OW. Easy prey for a gunny Requin or a couple Princes.

PS: the point is not the crew. The Crew is dangerous only if he boards you. Dont get boarded... or be prepared to fight him off.

Historical Note: true xebecs had crews hitting up to 500.

True xebecs were as large or larger than a frigate and were one trick ponies. Unless they could board, they would be smashed to bits by pretty much any square rigger. What we have in game is someone's flight of fancy.

[Urchin]

On 9/4/2018 at 2:37 AM, Licinio Chiavari said:

Real maximum is 388 (250 + 20% hammocks book + 10% Very Cramped trim + 10% Crew space wood + 15% light hammocks perm = 250 x1.55 = 387.5 rounded 388).

Didnt I repeat every chance that's majority of balancing issues are mod/trimming/RNG related and only secondly the ships?

That said, such a ship is pretty crap: she'll be dead slow running with the wind and really slow in anycase in OW. Easy prey for a gunny Requin or a couple Princes.

PS: the point is not the crew. The Crew is dangerous only if he boards you. Dont get boarded... or be prepared to fight him off.

Historical Note: true xebecs had crews hitting up to 500.

You really live in a fantasy regarding the Requin it's a broken ship that shouldn't be in the game until fixed. 500 Crew! It had slaves rowing the thing that's how it fit so many crew! 

The Requin in game is a joke, like mod stacking and stern camping all aspects that turn NA into little more than arcade game with cartoon ships. 

Edited September 6, 2018 by William Wade

[Bluetooth]

3 hours ago, William Wade said:

You really live in a fantasy regarding the Requin it's a broken ship that shouldn't be in the game until fixed. 500 Crew! It had slaves rowing the thing that's how it fit so many crew! 

The ship has been substantially nerfed since testing.

And @Licinio Chiavari  clearly said 'true Xebecs' had 500 crew not the Requin which he clearly said had 250 + mod ability.

We must all look and read what others are saying rather than jump to derogitory remarks based on wrong information.

[Licinio Chiavari]

7 hours ago, William Wade said:

You really live in a fantasy regarding the Requin it's a broken ship that shouldn't be in the game until fixed. 500 Crew! It had slaves rowing the thing that's how it fit so many crew! 

The Requin in game is a joke, like mod stacking and stern camping all aspects that turn NA into little more than arcade game with cartoon ships. 

Your hate blinds your mind.

There were and are plenty broken features and ships in NA («that turn NA into little more than arcade game»). Some you pointed, others can be easily listed (hullhugging, mast sniping,... 15.5kts Bellonas... Determined defender perk).

It is plain obvious that saying "true xebecs" should be read "there were xebecs hitting up to 500 crew".

If you read my posts you will be able to notice I pointed always against mods stacking, and other broken arcadish-like features.

As I always suggested to move Requin back to 5th rates (solving immediately crew mods overstacking issues with her).

What makes me so passionate against Requin whiners is two-fold:

- I do not remember at all so strong opposition and hate to other ships/features in game in the past. Far more inbalanced and broken than a boarding xebec (that's, nothing more, the Requin);

- I do not remember elite pvp veterans "aristocracy" so passionate against a feature/ship... Again: far less game breaking than other today and in the past.

Indeed I know the origin of the latter: these long time pvp farmers, who now are so rich and geared, have the luxury to make discussions about fairness... But the plain truth is they do not feel anymore 100% safe to sail in their super modded ships, killing (with highly broken techniques like sterncamping, hull hugging and mast sniping) or disengaging (thanks to ludicrous speeds) against ANY enemy.

Because a bad tag or a wrong manouver against a couple of Requins and their shiny Trinco will dishonourably sink.

PS: speaking about rowing slaves May be you mix up a xebec with a galley.

 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari
PS

[Hethwill]

7 hours ago, William Wade said:

broken ship

Why ? Because of sailing characteristics ? Because of modules and books ? Why ?

[Old Crusty]

5 hours ago, Crow said:

9 hours ago, William Wade said:

 

The ship has been substantially nerfed since testing.

 

Really? What has been so substantial? A slight adjustment to wind profile and speed? The only substantial nerf was not a nerf at all. Adjusting the BR from 80 to 160 was not a nerf, just finally giving the ship the BR that more closely represents it power.

it needed the BR change, and thank you Developers for doing that.

Now it needs a hard maximum on crew under 300 (way less if it is to remain a 6th rate) and we need extra crew to add weight to the ship just like repairs or anything else extra that it carries.

[Hethwill]

I agree, repairs are definitely too lightweight and they occupy volumes of hold space. This, of course, would affect all vessels but a ship with a limited hold would be the most "logistically" affected.